What games are out there that mechanically track the relationship between two characters?

What kind of "maneuvers" are there that the players can do to the relationship (get'cher mind out of the gutter, you!) and what impact do they have?  What, in short, is the nature of the tactical field?

They are crap and artificial feeling.  The only believable relationship that can develop between two characters are one that the players develop themselves.

Plus no manner of mechanics will get the 1 girl in your group to love you.

It isn't strictly between characters, but HeroQuest has the option of relationship ratings.  They're intended to show the intensity of the bond between a player character and his family, community, or other significant people in his life.  Typically, the rating provides a score for the likelihood that these friends, family, or community will be able to provide assitance to the player when he's in need.  However, it can also provide a modifier to a PC's attempt to interact with them -- the intensity of the bond may influence a key roll.

Now, as I stated above, these relationship ratings are intended to be used between PCs and NPCs, but two or more players could feasibly declare relationship ratings among themselves.  This strains the spirit of the rule, though, and a GM would have to be feeling generous to allow mechanics to take the place of roleplaying.  That said, the rules are there and may well apply in specific situations.

Similarly, Pendragon has various passion scores that serve a similar purpose, and could conceivably be invoked under similar circumstances.  An appropriate Love or Loyalty score (say Love of Family, if another PC is a character's brother or cousin) could be invoked in a moment of intense need.

!i!

...and obviously, the Dead does.

QuoteThey are crap and artificial feeling. The only believable relationship that can develop between two characters are one that the players develop themselves.

Plus no manner of mechanics will get the 1 girl in your group to love you.

edgy!  hey, kinda like those stupid combat mechanics that proliferate rpg's.  I bet people actually think they can fight in real life after a few sessions. :rolleyes:

I kinda agree with Kryyst. Not so vehemently, however. Artificial constructs in the form of rules for relationships in the game are fine...for dealing with characters that aren't actually controlled by the players around the table (presuming a GM & players set up). Relationship constructs for dealing with the actual people you are playing with (via their characters) aren't necessary. You can actually talk to them and play it out with the brains behind the character! There are plenty of games with the first type of relationship rules (like Ian said, Pendragon for one, Stone Horizons for another! ). The second type? :raise:

My upcoming story game, Remains of the End, is primarily designed to track relationships between characters using its trait/fallout system.  I'm still tweaking out the scoring system for relationships, though.

Quote from: One Horse TownI kinda agree with Kryyst. Not so vehemently, however.

And that's all fine.  If people want to make a thread for talking about how relationship mechanics suck, or even a thread for talking about whether they have value (with both sides examined) that'd be cool.

But I also hope that folks will set aside that value question, in this thread, since here I'm interested in hearing what's gone before whether it sucks or not.

Thanks in advance!

Quote from: kregmosieredgy!  hey, kinda like those stupid combat mechanics that proliferate rpg's.  I bet people actually think they can fight in real life after a few sessions. :rolleyes:

There's a pretty big difference. You can actually just ROLEPLAY the relationship. You can't just fight the combat, unless you want to have a very short-lived gaming group with a tragic end.

I know that this idea of "roleplaying" might be new to a few of you...

RPGPundit

The upcoming Story Engine 3E has simple verb-noun threads which link a PC to an NPC. This either provides a bonus or penalty depending on the nature of a task.

The Iron Gauntlets Companion adds a more detailed system for threads to Iron Gauntlets tasks between PCs.

EDIT: The possible threads in IG are Rapport, Rivalry, Dissent, Synergy, and Adoration.

Active Exploits Diceless has a similar threads system to that introduced in the Iron Gauntlets Companion.

These relationships are not rated, but they can provide bonuses/penalties depending on how you use them.

In general, I don't like any system that tries to tell me what my character thinks about other people, so while I can see some scope for relationship mechanics affecting NPCs I don't like the idea of them affecting my PC.

The only personality mechanics I really like are the ones in Pendragon, and that's because I an pretty much ignore them if I want to: I never have to roll against my Passions, and as far as my Traits go I can keep them towards the middle and just behave more-or-less how I like: the system is nicely self-correcting, and Stafford only suggests making people roll on Traits if they have extreme scores in them (so if you've played your knight as being bloodthirsty all the way through the game, and then suddenly want to be merciful, you've got to roll - essentially, it's a roll to suddenly contradict what you've previously established about the character).

Quote from: Warthur(so if you've played your knight as being bloodthirsty all the way through the game, and then suddenly want to be merciful, you've got to roll - essentially, it's a roll to suddenly contradict what you've previously established about the character).

That's pretty much how I feel it should be done and that's how I approached threads.

Quote from: kregmosier...and obviously, the Dead does.



edgy!  hey, kinda like those stupid combat mechanics that proliferate rpg's.  I bet people actually think they can fight in real life after a few sessions. :rolleyes:

Ah quick wit.  But my point stands.  Combat rules are useful in an rpg because it's your method of interacting with the environment of the world.  Relationship mechanics are ultimately artificial and forced feeling.  Players will either have a feeling towards another PC/NPC or they won't.  You can have a mechanic that says your character likes this character  but other then constantly nagging a PC that's acting out of grounds with what that number says it's utterly pointless.

In the same way that torturing a character for information is a lame effect.  The player isn't concerned he just makes rolls until his character fails it's stupid.

Quote from: kryystRelationship mechanics are ultimately artificial and forced feeling.  Players will either have a feeling towards another PC/NPC or they won't.  You can have a mechanic that says your character likes this character  but other then constantly nagging a PC that's acting out of grounds with what that number says it's utterly pointless.

Not so. That's why you provide a bonus to encourage it or penalty to discourage it. It may be artificial, but so are half the skills that your character possesses. Do you really know how to tame a wolf?

Quote from: pigames.netNot so. That's why you provide a bonus to encourage it or penalty to discourage it. It may be artificial, but so are half the skills that your character possesses. Do you really know how to tame a wolf?

That utterly irrelevant.  I have yet to find a GM that's so good as to bring in a wolf as a prop that I can try and tame in real life.  For the same reason you have lock picking skills, computer hacking skills, mad bo staff skills etc.... These are representitive of physical actions your character is taking in a game world.  There is no way (go away LARPER's and your silly bean bags) to represent them in reality.

However when you talk about how your character feels about another no set of numbers are going to change a players perspective.  You may gain some guidance of how to act that out, in the same way a player for once in their life may realistically play a character of lesser or vastly more intelligence then themselves.  But at the end of the day they are crap mechanics that get tacked on.

The only purpose they server are to reward or penalize a player for not acting a certain way, which is to say they are utterly arbitrary.

I find many skills to be arbitrary and have no real use. If a skill does not serve to reward a character for attempting a particular action, then what does it do? The higher my skill rating, the more of a reward I get. So goes with relationships - if I feel a particular way about someone (or vice versa), my dealings with them are affected in a similar manner.

For example, if I am good at fast-talking, I get a bonus to convince someone to sell me a plot of land. By the same token, if I have a really good relationship with someone, I can also get a bonus to convince them to sell.

You obviously have your mind set on this, so I won't bother to try to convince you. I'm merely stating my opinion as are you.