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Author Topic: Game units of measurement  (Read 4230 times)

S'mon

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2021, 02:59:35 AM »
If the setting doesn't have a calendar already, I typically use 12 months of approximately 30 days, labelled M1 M2 M3 etc. I find that having info on the solstices & equinoxes, and day length by time of year, is the most important thing for regulating the calendar & adventuring activities.

Here's my developed Primeval Thule (ancient fantasy Greenland) calendar:

Calendar - from start of campaign
The Atlantean year starts with the Spring Equinox on the 1st of Tebon.
Game Month - Sunrise & Sunset 1st of month, east (Boreal) of Quodeth.

M1 Tebon (March) 6am/6pm (1/1 is the Spring Equinox, festival of Ishtar)
M2 Sana (April) 3am/9pm > LONG DAY (15/2 is first day of no sunset, festival of Tarhun)
M3 Adar (May) LONG DAY (no sunset)
M4 Nidon (June) LONG DAY (1/4 is Summer Solstice, festival of Mitra. No sunset)
M5 Taru (July) LONG DAY (15/5 is last day of no sunset) 17/5 Queen Deyane's birthday festival.
M6 Samon (August)   - 3am/9pm
M7 Dumet (September) - 6am/6pm (1/7 is the Autumn Equinox, festival of Set)
M8 Abron (October) - 9am/3pm > TWILIGHT (15/8 is first day of no sunrise, festival of Tiamat) 27/8 Harvest festival of Kishar
M9 Ulon (November) - LONG NIGHT (no sunrise all month, full dark)
M10 Tisra (December) - LONG NIGHT (1/10 is Winter Solstice, festival of Nergal. No sunrise all month)
M11 Samnu (January) -  TWILIGHT (15/11 is last day of no sunrise, 16/11 festival of Azura)
M12 Kislon (February) - 9am/3pm on 1st Kislon

The duration of the Long Night varies from over 4 months at Thule's Boreal ("eastern") tip, to 0 months in Katagia and south across the Claws of Sunset where "The Sun Ever Sets".
City: Approximate Duration Long Night/Long Day
Quodeth: 3 months
Marg: 2.5 months
Nith: 5 weeks
Imystrahl: 3 weeks
Katagia: 0 weeks - just outside Polar Circle

With Forgotten Realms I just do a bit of development of the published calendar. For Damara 1359 DR:

Damaran-Impilturan Calendar
Each month is 30 days, made up of three Tendays, with 5 festival days between the months.
Month Common Name
 1   (January) Deepwinter
 2   (February) Latewinter or Claw of Winter. Last month of Winter.
 3   (March) Sunrise. First month of Spring.
Annual holiday: Greengrass. Sunrise 6am/Sunset 6pm   
 4   (April) Stormsend
 5   (May) Melting. The mountain passes typically become navigable in this month.
 6   (June) Flowers. First month of summer.
Annual holiday: Midsummer. Sunrise 4am/Sunset 8pm   
 7   (July) Flamerule. Usually the hottest month of the year.   
 8   (August) Highsun
 9   (September) Fading. The beginning of Autumn.
Annual holiday: Highharvestide. Sunrise 6am/Sunset 6pm      
10   (October) Leaffall
11   (November) Rotting
Annual holiday: The Feast of the Moon. Sunrise 7.20am/Sunset 4.40pm      
12   (December) Nightfall. The beginning of Winter.   
Annual holiday: Midwinter. Sunrise 8am/Sunset 4pm   

Chris24601

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2021, 11:33:55 AM »
I actually have several calanders in my world.

The foundation is a seven day week with the days inherited from the Old Faith. The week begins with Truceday, then proceeds through the elements Windsday, Earthsday, Fireday and Waterday, and lastly, Sunday and Moonday. If you don’t see the joke… say them out loud.

The humans use a 12 month calander with the months names for the 12 gods of the primary pantheon; the Via Praetorum. The months coinciding with the spring and autumn equinoxes and the summer and winter solstices have 5 weeks (35 days) while the others have 4 weeks (28 days). Each season begins with the associated solar event which is also the start of the five week month.

The Old Faith marks the seasons, but counts only the weeks instead of months (i.e Windsday of the third week of spring).

The elves, by contrast, use an entirely lunar calander (their All Mother deity is associated with the Moon) with each month beginning on a New Moon and beginning a two week cycle of inward contemplation of one of their eleven deities, followed by two weeks beginning at the Full Moon where that deity is outwardly celebrated.

The final two months of the annual cycle celebrate the relationship of two of the ten lesser gods with the All Mother (one per month) and which gods and their order give the name to that particular year and a complete cycle of those forms a 90 year cycle which themselves are named for one of their gods and is believed to reflect the fortunes of the elves during that age.

There are also several different counts of years; the Old Faith dates from The Covenant that is foundational to their faith. By their count it is Covanent Year (CY) 5204. The Praetorian Empire dated things from its founding and by that reckoning it is Imperial Year (IY) 975. Those who fell to complete barbarism count from The Cataclysm, with a date of 198 Post Cataclysm (PC). The elves use a similar count since they only entered the Mortal World because of the Cataclysm, but with their dating system it is recorded as the Year of Songs of the Seas in the Cycle of Cha-Chata (Fate).

Money is almost entirely by actual weight of the metal and so the Pound (of silver), Cent (one per cent of a pound of silver) and Bit (a quarter of a cent) are the most common for interstate trade, though each realm generally mints its own coinage in varying denominations using various metals.

Bits are typically copper and about the size of a US penny. 1, 5 and 10 cent coins are typically struck in silver (the 1 cent coin is typically about the size of a US nickel). 20 or 25, 50 cent and one pound coins are typically struck in gold, with the £1 being a 1 oz (1/16 variety, not the 1/12 Troy oz) coin about the size of a quarter (thus the de facto ratio is 16:1 for silver to gold value… which is reasonably close to historic norms in the real world).

Anything beyond about £80 (5 pounds of gold) is most likely going to be in the form of precious gems instead (which can hit up to £10 per caret fof very rare varieties) with some extremely wealthy realms striking silver or gold coins that are inlaid with one or more less rare gems for use as £5, £10 or larger values (not that there is much of anything beyond ships, artwork and magic that would require such coinage).

Measurements are generally anthropic (based on the human body). The inch was some past ruler’s finger digit, the foot is similarly someone’s foot, the yard is the length of their belt. The most common game measurement is the Pace, for which I use the Roman pacum because it is almost exactly 5’ and thus measures D&D-style 5’ squares in a very natural unit… i.e. 6 paces instead of six 5’ squares.

My in-game Mile is similarly based off the Roman mille passum (1000 paces) and so is 5000’.

Weight is based on the pound, derived from the weight of a pint of fresh water (i.e. “a pint’s a pound the whole world round”). The pint is derived from a container that comfortably fit in some past ruler’s hand (a cylinder about 3” across and 4” high). The ton is 2000 pounds and was based on the largest barrel of alcohol (250 gallons) that could be easily rolled through some past ruler’s feast hall door. Finer grades of weight are the oz (1/16 of a pound; primarily a customary unit), the cent (used for coinage and science), the carat (1/10 of a cent; 1/1000 of a pound) and the grain (1/100 of a cent; 1/10,000 of a pound) with fine weights typically recorded as X.YY.ZZ (pounds.cents.grains) with any final zeros dropped (so 4.5 instead of 4.50.00).

In practical game terms only the pound is typically relevant, though cents and carats are common with coinage and gems/jewelry.

It is entirely possible I’ve thought about this way too much.


Banjo Destructo

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2021, 01:41:47 PM »
Right now, I only tend to clarify that coins are about the size of a US dime. I know there was some trope or assumption that coins were like..  bigger than a Canadian $2 coin, like the pirate gold coins you'd see in movies.

I tend to use the standard imperial units just for ease of reference. I suppose if I was making my own setting it could be interesting to adapt a non-standard set of units to the specific setting, I just wonder how much that would bother people to try and learn/use for in game stuff.

Steven Mitchell

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2021, 01:57:40 PM »
Right now, I only tend to clarify that coins are about the size of a US dime. I know there was some trope or assumption that coins were like..  bigger than a Canadian $2 coin, like the pirate gold coins you'd see in movies.

I tend to use the standard imperial units just for ease of reference. I suppose if I was making my own setting it could be interesting to adapt a non-standard set of units to the specific setting, I just wonder how much that would bother people to try and learn/use for in game stuff.

Size of coins amounts to trade offs on a few considerations.  How much do value historical fidelity on sizes?  Which period and area?  Do you want to approximate the relative value of silver and gold?  Again, which time and area and source of silver and gold and inflation?  How many compromises with those are you willing to make for game play?  There's no inherent right or wrong answer, only better or worse answers for a given mix of goals.

The "silver penny" as about dime size is a good historical starting place.  This works well if you don't have many gold coins and the ones you do are different sizes and/or you vary the rate of silver/gold value from historical norms for game play,  etc.  That is, you can have easy ratios, same size coins, or keep the historical ratio on bullion but not all three.  Which means if you really want silver penny dime-sized coins and then everything follows from that, you can make a really good mix for late dark ages, early middle ages currency.  There just won't be much gold involved.  Or copper either, for that matter.

The range of the silver/gold bullion value has generally stayed within 1 pound gold equal to 10 to 16 pounds silver.  Often closer to the middle than the extremes.  Chris has his reason for coins that end up using the 1:16 ratio.  I've got different reasons for going the other extreme with 1:10 (almost all game-play and standard coin size compromises, in my case).

Of course, in a fantasy game, you could also decide that the size of the coins was the only thing that mattered and not give 2 bits for historical ratios or the actual weight of the metal.

Which is the long way around to saying that the bigger coins is a trope, but it isn't only a trope.  It's a way to manage those compromises.  It's also a very convenient way of having currency interact with encumbrance, particularly if you want to put some thought into what it means to haul bags of coins out of a dungeon. :D 

Anselyn

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2021, 02:24:21 PM »
Weight is based on the pound, derived from the weight of a pint of fresh water (i.e. “a pint’s a pound the whole world round”).

Very much something for the World Series of proverbs:

From Wikipedia:
One US fluid pint of water weighs 1.04318 pounds (16.69081 ounces), which gives rise to a popular saying: "A pint's a pound, the world around". However, the statement does not hold around the world because the British imperial pint, which was also the standard measure in Australia, India, Malaya, New Zealand, South Africa, and other former British colonies, weighs 1.2528 pounds, which is where another popular saying used in Commonwealth countries came from: "a pint of pure water weighs a pound and a quarter".

Chris24601

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2021, 04:13:19 PM »
Weight is based on the pound, derived from the weight of a pint of fresh water (i.e. “a pint’s a pound the whole world round”).

Very much something for the World Series of proverbs:

From Wikipedia:
One US fluid pint of water weighs 1.04318 pounds (16.69081 ounces), which gives rise to a popular saying: "A pint's a pound, the world around". However, the statement does not hold around the world because the British imperial pint, which was also the standard measure in Australia, India, Malaya, New Zealand, South Africa, and other former British colonies, weighs 1.2528 pounds, which is where another popular saying used in Commonwealth countries came from: "a pint of pure water weighs a pound and a quarter".
Oh, believe me; I’m aware. I did a lot of research and reverse engineering on certain weights and measures to find ways a similar unit would emerge in my setting. It took a bit of fiddling to get a reasonable sounding volume that would give you right around a US Pint (a finger across and a hand high cylinder got really close so that’s what I used in my setting fluff).

Likewise I easily spent a solid day just finding primal-themed names for the days of the week that would also sound as close as possible to the real world American days of the week (i.e. Truceday = Tuesday, Windsday = Wednesday, etc.). Why? So it’d be easier for people playing the game to remember vs. completely made up day names.

The biggest stretches for me were Earthsday = Thursday and Waterday = Saturday as I ended up going more for a similar syllable count with at least one of them sorta matching (i.e. ah-ter in Water and Satur)… so I’m really open to alternatives if someone thinks of one.

amacris

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2021, 12:18:35 AM »
For my Auran Empire setting, I decided the moon orbits the earth every 30 1/3 days, while the sun orbits the earth every 364 days.

The solar calendar therefore has a solar year of 364 days divided into 4 seasons of 3 months each. Each season consists of 1 long month of 5 weeks, and 1 short month of 4 weeks.
The long month's first week is a week-long festival that starts on a solstice or equinox that celebrates the start of the new seasons.

WINTER
Long Month 1
Week 1, starts on Winter Solstice
Week 2 - 5
Short Month 2
Week 1 - 4
Short Month 3
Week 1 -4
SPRING
Long Month 1
Week 1, starts on Spring Equinox
Week 2-5
Short Month 2
etc.

The lunar calendar has a lunar year of 364 days divided into 4 seasons of 3 months of 30.33 days each, 91 days total. Since 91 days equals (28+28+35) days, the lunar season and the solar season are the same length; each season is thus three solar months and three lunar months. The moon's phases are thus identical in each day of each season.

This grants a pleasing regularity that is easy to track, while offering a semblance of "real world" calendars where solar and lunar months are slightly different and so on. A "month" can refer to a lunar month or solar month in easy conversation, and so on. Culturally the sungod-worshipping Aurans use the solar calendar and build their religious festivities around it, while the Chthonic worshippers use the lunar calendar, which is also tied to the zodiac signs.

==
I'm really impressed by the awesome anthropic measurements... In particular I love the idea that the pound is based on a pint of water, while a pint is based on a mug based on a human hand size, and so on. Awesome.


PsyXypher

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2021, 02:05:25 AM »
I use meters to measure distance, as the Speed stat measures how many meters per second you can go. This leads to some weird things if you have a certain number of actions per round; characters with more actions can move less distance per action, as how many meters per action you can move is equal to your Speed divided by your actions per round. I've found this works really well with the type of game I'm trying to make.


I am not X/Y/Z race. I am a mutant. Based and mutantpilled, if you will.

Omega

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2021, 03:46:05 AM »
Coins in my RPG were 10 copper to 1 silver, with each copper about the size of a penny and a silver the size of a nickel, and 10 silver making 1 gold which was about the size of a quarter. I did this mainly so I'd have easy examples on hand if anyone asked how much x amount of coins takes up. (1000 copper will completely fill a standard pasta sauce jar, 100 silver fills an asprin bottle.)

The names varied from kingdom to kingdom.

Distances were noted in days travel on foot. Which was generally around 20 miles. So some nearby ruins might be half a days travel, a farm on the outskirts of town might be stated as a fourths travel.

A day was 25 hours long and a year was 400 days long. 10 months of 40 days each and comprised of four 10-day long weeks. This works because the planet and moon are in no way natural systems in the normal sense.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2021, 01:37:32 PM »
Thanks to playing through early modules, I have instilled in my players a hatred for the electrum piece. LOL.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2021, 08:41:58 PM »
Soo, for my Planetary Romance game, should I make up totally new measure units? What about money? I don't think Gold Pieces sound very Venusian if you ask me.

Ditto for the measurements. Of course it could mainly be just renamed units to take advantage of familiarity but still.
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GeekyBugle

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2021, 09:27:28 PM »
Soo, for my Planetary Romance game, should I make up totally new measure units? What about money? I don't think Gold Pieces sound very Venusian if you ask me.

Ditto for the measurements. Of course it could mainly be just renamed units to take advantage of familiarity but still.

Thus far:
Funnie = Copper Coin
Granni = Silver Coin
Tari = Gold Coin
Oncia = Platinum Coin

Bit = Inch
Palm = 1/2Foot
Pace = Yard
Passum = Mile

Almud = Pint
Adarme = Pound
-o-
Cot = Inch
Palme = 1/2Foot
Picior = Foot
Pasm = Yard
Passum = Mile

Area
Fere
Falce = 1 Passum Sqr


Oca = Pint
Potte = 1/2 Banita
Banita = Quarter
Kwarter – Quarter
Obroc = 22 Banita
Mare = 2 Obroc, 44 Banita
Merta = 120 Banita

Dram = Ounce
Font = Pound
Gium = 1,000 Font
Hadra = 2,000 Font
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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Charon's Little Helper

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2021, 12:49:23 AM »
I've found that messing with the calendar is more trouble than it's worth.  For one world I did 6 days per week, 6 weeks per month, 10 months per year, and 4 extra days on the solstices and equinoxes.  It's nice for color, but always caused confusion in conversation; never could remember if we were talking real-world weeks and months or in-game calendar terms.

+1

I read a book series where early-on it mentioned that there were 12 months and each month was 35 days. So each year was 420 days - about 15% longer than Earth's.

I kept getting confused about ages of characters and thought it was just doing the thing some novels do where all of the characters are younger than they should be to appeal to a younger audience. Then someone on a book review mentioned that they're REALLY all 2-3 years older. (They were still pretty young - but not ridiculously so.)

It was especially weird because I don't remember the books themselves ever bringing it up again.

IMO - unless you have a really good reason, stick with the same calendar. (A good reason could be that it's sci-fi on an obviously different planet than Earth. Though if the characters are human, they'll probably just keep using Earth's calendar for most things anyway.)

Omega

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2021, 12:20:25 PM »
Thanks to playing through early modules, I have instilled in my players a hatred for the electrum piece. LOL.


heh. We dropped the electrum piece faster than TSR did.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Game units of measurement
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2021, 01:14:08 PM »
Thanks to playing through early modules, I have instilled in my players a hatred for the electrum piece. LOL.


heh. We dropped the electrum piece faster than TSR did.
I had a discussion with a fellow gamer last night, and the really interesting question is why platinum is more valued than gold.

Keep in mind that platinum was originally considered 'immature' or 'impure' silver. The Spanish actually dumped their stocks in 1735 because people were counterfeiting their coins with the stuff (the irony did not escape me, especially as platinum is pretty pricey nowadays -- US$1055 per troy ounce, versus gold's US$1320 per troy ounce). But that's because platinum has a number of modern day uses. Why would it be considered valuable in a fantasy setting?

From Wikipedia: 'The most common use of platinum is as a catalyst in chemical reactions, often as platinum black. It has been employed as a catalyst since the early 19th century, when platinum powder was used to catalyze the ignition of hydrogen. Its most important application is in automobiles as a catalytic converter, which allows the complete combustion of low concentrations of unburned hydrocarbons from the exhaust into carbon dioxide and water vapor. Platinum is also used in the petroleum industry as a catalyst in a number of separate processes, but especially in catalytic reforming of straight-run naphthas into higher-octane gasoline that becomes rich in aromatic compounds. PtO2, also known as Adams' catalyst, is used as a hydrogenation catalyst, specifically for vegetable oils. Platinum also strongly catalyzes the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen and it is used in fuel cells as a catalyst for the reduction of oxygen.'

Now, this is all highfalutin' industrial revolution and forward tech. But it gives me the idea: platinum is heavily used in alchemy and magical workings. Potion reagents are best distilled and purified using platinum vessels, or perhaps platinum makes an excellent material for permanent protective circles and wards. That would explain its higher value in a fantasy setting.