Does anybody run games with losing conditions(besides TPK's, which theoretically don't have to be game over) ? Like a key NPC dies...game over. Or you failed to save the town in the time alotted...Game Over.
You gave the ultimate item to the evil overlord and he uses it to instantly kill your parents and turn you into mind-slaves...Game Over.
How well did these work? Were players happy or unhappy with the results?
I never run them without.
It´s the point of playing for me.
Players fail -> Campaign over.
I also expect this as a player, and had great campaigns that we "lost" in the end as a player.
Depending on the overarching challenge, there can be a new campaign, dealing with the failure or even trying to redeem it. Or, if the world was at stake, then the campaign world is busted.
It depends...I never have a "you fail game over" thing unless its the final gambit in the campaign. There should never be a 100% "Absolutely NOTHING you can do will prevent this from happening" except at the final end. Players should always have a chance. Even a MINISCULE chance is still a chance. I mean, if they messed up, and stumble their way to the end, practically handing the enemy the victory - OK, fine. But other than that - if the dice just weren't going their way, they had good plans that just never came to fruition - as a GM, I'd rather players went down swinging, trying, than just say "Oh, well, thats it - nothing we can do."
Well, I play short-run campaigns ... so, like, we'll often know going in to a session that it's the last session, because we're going to play something else next.
I've had times when those last sessions delivered very unpleasant results for the characters. But given how downright cool that is, I'm hard pressed to see that as a loss for the players.
Quote from: KrakaJakHow well did these work? Were players happy or unhappy with the results?
Works pretty good. My players generally make their own goals so if they fuck up it's their own fault :D
Regards,
David R
I ran a rather ambitious time limit adventure once. The PCs wanted to steal a rather potent magic item from a huge tower. This tower served as a military base in a contested area of land. As the PCs approached, a large army also approached. The PCs got inside just in time. Before the session, i had prepared a time-table. On this table, certain events happened at certain times and certain NPCs could be found in certain places at certain times. The rest was up to the PCs. Could they get the item and get out before the tower fell, would they encounter the besieging army's infiltration group, or the Blackguard?
Actually, it turned out pretty well. I kept to my time-table, sat back and let the PCs play, all the while resisting the temptation to alter my time-table! It probably had one of the most memorable encounters of that campaign. The party were making their way down a spiral staircase, when half a dozen enemy soldiers were coming up (led by a captain). It was a cool, desperate battle in cramped conditions with treacherous footing and the common enemy soldier who had a spear really had the PCs in trouble for a while.
A slight aside...
Beyond characters dying some games have mechanics for losing. Burning Empires comes to mind. Either a whole phase can go so badly that it's clear who the winner is (and players may concede) or the players can just lose the battle for control of the planet. Neat stuff.
I use that tool sometimes, and I make losing a definite possibility. Losing doesn't mean the end of the campaign necessarily. It will certainly mean a new direction to the campaign. In a fantasy campaign, if Frodo doesn't get the ring to Mt. Doom in time and Sauron wins, there can still be a campaign, but it will be a more oppressive campaign similar to the Midnight setting.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm thinking of having a possible bad ending for my current campaign.
Another quick question for those that have...How did you structure it so the players didn't feel let down...or that their Month's of gaming was "wasted"?
Quote from: KrakaJakAnother quick question for those that have...How did you structure it so the players didn't feel let down...or that their Month's of gaming was "wasted"?
I game with adults, so "shit happens" and the ability to accept it comes with the territory :D
Seriously though the possibility of failure means just that doesn't it ? It means you
could fail and thus you should accept the consequences.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: KrakaJakAnother quick question for those that have...How did you structure it so the players didn't feel let down...or that their Month's of gaming was "wasted"?
Make their death and failure every bit as awesome cool as their success would have been. Like, Butch & Sundance cool ... or cooler.
Some advice I got a long time ago: Say Bob is playing GROD, an iron-thewed barbarian. He rolls to plunge his axe into the head of a weaselly necromancer and misses. If you say "Swing and a miss!" then that makes GROD lame ... he can't even hit a moldy old bookworm. If you say "The necromancer throws burning powder into GROD's eyes ... he swings wildly, chopping the head STRAIGHT OFF an iron statue behind the necromancer, while the vile sorceror slinks away in terror," then you have made GROD spectacular, while still maintaining the fact that he missed the stroke.
Same thing applies on the macro level, I think. Yeah, they'll fail and fall ... but not because they're lame. They will fail and fall because sometimes that's what happens to awesome, amazing heroes.
A friend of mine ran a game where if the PCs failed at their task, stone hands would erupt from the ground and drag every Dwarf back into the earth. They failed, it happened - the game pretty much ended there on the spot.
Quote from: One Horse TownActually, it turned out pretty well. I kept to my time-table, sat back and let the PCs play, all the while resisting the temptation to alter my time-table! It probably had one of the most memorable encounters of that campaign. The party were making their way down a spiral staircase, when half a dozen enemy soldiers were coming up (led by a captain). It was a cool, desperate battle in cramped conditions with treacherous footing and the common enemy soldier who had a spear really had the PCs in trouble for a while.
I did this with a Jovian Chronicles game where the PCs were all intelligence agents. They were racing against another team to recover some technology. The time table was all laid out, all the players had to do was tell me what their characters were doing at any one time. It worked out very well.
Quote from: KrakaJakThanks for the feedback, I'm thinking of having a possible bad ending for my current campaign.
Another quick question for those that have...How did you structure it so the players didn't feel let down...or that their Month's of gaming was "wasted"?
I set it up so that only total failure results in a total defeat. That way if everything goes to pieces, they can still take pride in having saved Kingdom one of seven. And if they almost win, they can still lament the loss of the Kingdom of redshirted ensigns.
I swear, Zygore! I shall avenge Ensign Rickey with every fiber of my being! I shall not rest until the painfully grotesque death of Ensign Rickey is revisted upon your soul a thousandfold!
Is the bad ending an option or is it predetermined? If its predetermined then it will be apparent and your players will feel cheated and that they wasted their time. Under those circumstances I wouldn't game with you again.
If it ends in TPK resulting from their actions then they will be disappointed, but that happens from time to time in role playing and I am sure they will be more than willing to push on to something new without any ill feelings.
Quote from: KrakaJakThanks for the feedback, I'm thinking of having a possible bad ending for my current campaign.
Another quick question for those that have...How did you structure it so the players didn't feel let down...or that their Month's of gaming was "wasted"?
I once ran a one-shot where different PCs from different organizations in my game world came together to try to find out why a stolen airship went down over a swamp. Of course, because the organizations were locked in a Cold War scenerio, each had other agendas, often conflicting with another groups. (for example, one had "Recover the Blueprints for the airship." and another had "Prevent anyone from getting the Blueprints." and "Return the Blueprints intact.")
Groups got points based off how many objectives were completed, so in the middle of this kind of combat-ty swamp mission, each unit was politically fighting or slinking around to make sure they got what they wanted. Amazingly enough, though, there was no inter-PC combat! Very stealthy, and a lot of fun, though I'd rebalance the whole enterprise if I did it again.
Definately an option. The series ended just last nigh actually. It was a lot of fun and I didn't have to run with the bad ending.
These are some great ideas for future planning though.