Please post them here.

Thank you.

-clash

No :teehee:

From the old school thread:

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;283126In the spirit of constructive criticism:

• I think the "montage of images" approach is much less effective than a single compelling scene.

The montage of images is just on the website which I linked to. There is no montage of images in the book, and I wasn't suggesting using one. I was asking - stupidly, because it seems to have confused everyone, and rhetorically, because the answer is no - whether one of the other illos there would suit better. None of them address the subject of the section in the sample excerpt. I removed the montage, to avoid this confusion in the future.

Quote• More as a matter of taste, I'm not too keen on the drawing style, which appears to be photographs run through filters to look like watercolors.

Yes, of course.

Quote• That said, the two illos I like best are the one with the two knights and the one with the archer.

How would they illustrate the section on skills and stunts? Neither is using one.

Quote• Given the title, I'd look for a picture that has more of a sense of, well, going forth and confronting the unknown/adventuring. Therefore the main subjects should be facing somewhat away from the viewer, focusing their attention on something outside the illustration, or on some kind of challenge (a fortress, a group of menacing humanoids, a single large monster, etc.). By "somewhat away" I mean anywhere from 30º off center to nearly dead away from the viewer; the idea is to show that the character(s) are moving toward something adventurous which is either illustrated or suggested.

OK...

QuoteA couple of covers which I think handle this sort of theme well include In the Labyrinth, RQ3 (both showing how the adventurers can be focusing forward on an "adventure" that's in the foreground), and Fantasy Hero 1e (not as effective in execution but it shows the idea).

None of them have anything to do with skills and stunts, the subject of the excerpt in question. Did anyone read the sample? I should start it AFTER the freaking illo.

-clash

I should note for clarity that the covers of the print books do NOT have a collage/montage/whatever. They have single images.

RPGPundit

Sorry, complete and utter misunderstanding on my part, I'm afraid. All my comments were regarding the montage as a cover, not as a selection of alternate illos for the skill section.

The actual cover which I've now located is much better: looking out from a rising portcullis. Presumably you, the adventurer, are about to leave the safe confines of the fortress and seek your fortune. Personally, I'd consider a slightly different theme and make it into a view looking into a rising portcullis, with darkness behind, although that might be a bit too much like the FtA!GN! cover.

For an illustration of skills, well, my favorite sort of thing is showing someone picking a lock or listening at a door. But tracking in and of itself is okay, too. Part of my response to the illustration is just taste and tone. However the illo also says less "skill use" and more "elf person staring off into the distance". Too subtle, I guess.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;283142Sorry, complete and utter misunderstanding on my part, I'm afraid. All my comments were regarding the montage as a cover, not as a selection of alternate illos for the skill section.

The actual cover which I've now located is much better: looking out from a rising portcullis. Presumably you, the adventurer, are about to leave the safe confines of the fortress and seek your fortune. Personally, I'd consider a slightly different theme and make it into a view looking into a rising portcullis, with darkness behind, although that might be a bit too much like the FtA!GN! cover.

For an illustration of skills, well, my favorite sort of thing is showing someone picking a lock or listening at a door. But tracking in and of itself is okay, too. Part of my response to the illustration is just taste and tone. However the illo also says less "skill use" and more "elf person staring off into the distance". Too subtle, I guess.

Ah! Sorry for the confusion, Elliot. That was exactly what I was going for with the cover - with the adventurer being at the point of view, about to leave home. And the FtA!GN! cover was indeed meant to echo the FtA! cover, in reverse.

-clash

I'm myself also not too convinced of the FtA! cover.
The theme with the half-open gate isn't bad to translate the "forward to adventure" title and idea into a picture, but I think it's too static and has a too low grade of detail to catch anyones eye.
With more implied movement (like a hand or ram that is in the process of cracking down the door) and some hints of the adventure beyond (bones of former forayers, a half-seen 10' pole probing forward for pit traps etc.), it would work better.
(And not to forget a monkey, everything's better with monkeys )

Quote from: flyingmice;283117What is FtA!, really? It's a kick-ass game for newbies, designed to integrate old and familiar concepts with new, streamlined techniques to reach the fun.

As someone who's currently prepping his own version of the Western Marches idea with FtA!, I'd wholeheartedly agree to this.
I certainly hits an oldschool nerve, but with very elegant, clockwork-like rules and the absolutely fresh idea of the stunts (which is yet my main selling point for the system, and has been the one hint that helped me the most to recruit players at conventions for this game).

Tragically, this might also be why this game remains underrated. Folks who already enjoy old-school gaming have already found a system that serves them, at least well enough to see little incentive to switch to something similar.
On the other hand, folks who don't enjoy any of the existing old-school games aren't probably very interested into trying out any game that flirts with being old-school, so FtA! isn't even taken into their consideration.
(I don't except myself from this. If it hadn't been for the cheap price of the PDF version and an "just peek at it, you've seen less productive ways to get rid of 10€" attitude, I probably wouldn't have picked it up at all. After all, there's probably every other the week the offer of "everything you want from a fantasy game, but more elegant/streamlined/overall improved" - which then often turns out as "my D&D, but with a skill system, and with STR and CON as well as INT and WIS thrown together for streamlining purposes, and we also have winged monkeys as PC race while getting rid of gnomes".)

Quote from: Skyrock;283151(And not to forget a monkey, everything's better with monkeys )

That was basically the rational for The (FtA!GN!'s) Setting's Gorilla Kingdoms.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Skyrock;283151As someone who's currently prepping his own version of the Western Marches idea with FtA!, I'd wholeheartedly agree to this.
I certainly hits an oldschool nerve, but with very elegant, clockwork-like rules and the absolutely fresh idea of the stunts (which is yet my main selling point for the system, and has been the one hint that helped me the most to recruit players at conventions for this game).

Tragically, this might also be why this game remains underrated. Folks who already enjoy old-school gaming have already found a system that serves them, at least well enough to see little incentive to switch to something similar.
On the other hand, folks who don't enjoy any of the existing old-school games aren't probably very interested into trying out any game that flirts with being old-school, so FtA! isn't even taken into their consideration.
(I don't except myself from this. If it hadn't been for the cheap price of the PDF version and an "just peek at it, you've seen less productive ways to get rid of 10€" attitude, I probably wouldn't have picked it up at all. After all, there's probably every other the week the offer of "everything you want from a fantasy game, but more elegant/streamlined/overall improved" - which then often turns out as "my D&D, but with a skill system, and with STR and CON as well as INT and WIS thrown together for streamlining purposes, and we also have winged monkeys as PC race while getting rid of gnomes".)

I agree with everything you said, Skyrock. It's in a weird place - I can't pitch it to old schoolers, and people who might really like it think it's retro old school, and dismiss it out of hand. And I've been there and done that with the "my D&D, with X, and flying monkey PCs" too often not to understand why it gets dismissed this way. Nailed it.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;283158I agree with everything you said, Skyrock. It's in a weird place - I can't pitch it to old schoolers, and people who might really like it think it's retro old school, and dismiss it out of hand. And I've been there and done that with the "my D&D, with X, and flying monkey PCs" too often not to understand why it gets dismissed this way. Nailed it.

-clash

This was all I was trying to say in the other thread Clash.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;283142Sorry, complete and utter misunderstanding on my part, I'm afraid. All my comments were regarding the montage as a cover, not as a selection of alternate illos for the skill section.

The actual cover which I've now located is much better:

Whew. I was worried there for a sec. "He doesn't like the portcullis cover? Is this the El I know... or have Th-They replaced him?"

From the Ashes? Carl Sargent can write his ass off.

ok, honestly-

1.  The lack of a free pdf kills my interest in any self-published game - fair or not, that's how it is.  

2.  The comparisons to T&T.  I hate the combat system in T&T- completely.

3.  Not using your real name to publish with - lame and cowardly.  Again, fair or not, that's my impression and I don't know you from adam.

Quote from: mhensley;283168ok, honestly-

1.  The lack of a free pdf kills my interest in any self-published game - fair or not, that's how it is.  

2.  The comparisons to T&T.  I hate the combat system in T&T- completely.

3.  Not using your real name to publish with - lame and cowardly.  Again, fair or not, that's my impression and I don't know you from adam.

Cool, Mike. People who will like it will like it. People who won't like it won't like it. People who won't look at it cannot be moved from their pre-judgment. Fair or not, that's how it is.

Honestly, OK?

-clash

Maybe a free intro version of FtA! would help to build a bridge...
Just start with a small dungeon romp of five rooms or so, provide the basic rules and the combat rules, omit character creation in favour of some pre-gens (together with a generic henchman as replacement for dead PCs), and offer only the "ammo" that is directly needed for that one dungeon adventure (the spells that are actually known to and the weapons that are actually owned by the characters, the monsters that actually play a role in the adventure, the magical items and dungeon features that can actually be found in the dungeon etc.).
It would be enough to think over the rule system and to give it a shot for an evening, or maybe a second if you are ready to make up a second adventure of the known stuff, but for any prolonged play, it would probably more sensible to just pay at least the 10$ for the PDF and to have all the "ammo" ready to be thrown in.

I wouldn't crop the basic system for an intro version, though - first, there isn't much unnecessary stuff to crop in the main rule book, and second, a big part of the charm of FtA! lies in the clockwork-like interaction of the combat sequence and in the bandwidth of the stunts, so any cropping would result in a very crippled playing experience that has little to do with the actual game.