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Author Topic: Frank Mentzer is launching a new project: Empyrea  (Read 31535 times)

S'mon

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Frank Mentzer is launching a new project: Empyrea
« Reply #90 on: September 16, 2017, 07:51:18 pm »
Quote from: EOTB;992992
I released the PM knowing it would make a bunch of people angry.  Since this thread focused on what I did for the last few pages, I'll come here to let people tell me directly, if they care, their opinion.  

I think it was probably best you released the PM, for the reasons you gave. I think most people already assumed Frank had sent something bad, though most likely direct to the DF admins rather than to you.

I don't think you behaved well, including in the 2015 thread, but there's people who behave worse than that on RPG forums every day of the week. There's people on this site who behave worse than that every day of the week. It shouldn't have been a big deal.
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Voros

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« Reply #91 on: September 16, 2017, 07:52:38 pm »
I was a bit surprised to see EOTB being involved in this as he's been pretty reasonable and polite here on RPGSite, of all places.

I do think there's a difference between debating with each other on these forums and debating with designers. Designers are here mostly as part of their job and giving them a hard time is kinda like going to 7 Eleven and knocking over a slurpy machine. Except in this case as the DF threads show if someone is unpleasant or just annoying they are likely to just disappear because why does anyone need that shit at work?

Y Mab Darogan

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« Reply #92 on: September 16, 2017, 07:57:02 pm »
*deleted since reading EOTB's post not drunk it's not the apology I thought it was. :mad:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 04:49:49 am by HorusArisen »
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GameDaddy

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« Reply #93 on: September 16, 2017, 08:13:56 pm »
Quote from: EOTB;992992
But again - not sorry about releasing the PM.


Bugger off. Since you clearly don't understand the meaning or implication of private message. You have no business making them, or sharing them. Have zero interest in your take on anything gaming, because my third graders have better manners than you, and for the most part (there are a few exceptions of course...) will respond to bullying far better than you did,. You were not really responding to being bullied though, ...you were actually bullying someone yourself, hoping you could taunt them into making a mistake or error. You are in the wrong place here. Go away and hang out with the people who would care about such things.  

Quote from: EOTB;992992
But nothing released out of that conversation was along the lines of "mistakes were made", and like DF held him in no ill will...


Wrong again. On both counts. Pretty sure that banning someone is about the maximum amount of non-violent ill-will that exists outside of actually being hostile, because one is in effect banishing them from meaningful participation. This all came about at your hand, so you deserve what you give, and not just on Dragonsfoot. People who simply poison other peoples lives have no place amongst us gamers, ...because the poison that creeps in and destroys gaming, which should be about fun, and recreation... not about poison. Remember that.  

Also, you totally owe Frank a public apology.
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Kellri

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« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2017, 12:16:58 am »
Quote from: GameDaddy993010
Also, you totally owe Frank a public apology.

That's hilarious. We're talking about someone (Frank) who has, on multiple occasions, flat out lied and when caught at it, didn't apologize or try to make amends. He has an established  pattern of backbiting and lying in private, and acting like the victim when it doesn't stay private. He does exactly what he did on this occasion. He blames whoever points out the lie, tries to marginalize them as less important than himself, and tries to paint them as undeserving of anything but scorn. Frankly, no pun intended, the only way to effectively deal with someone who is an unrepentant, backbiting, dishonest jackass is to shed some light on them. A public apology to someone like that would be tantamount to an admission that his brand of continual self-serving bullshit is A-Ok because it's not fair to tarnish someone's public reputation with the facts because you're not that famous.  

I'll say this much more and that's it...I've got personal friends who have worked with the man and have warned me against doing the same. I've received some pretty mean-spirited PMs from the man - not as batshit insane as the one EOTB received - more than sufficient for me to realize what kind of man I was dealing with. I applaud EOTB for getting the situation out in the open. I applaud him for coming here to speak honestly about his feelings about the matter. I don't applaud Frank, because all he's done is try to shift the blame, gaslight, and act like a victim with no responsibility for what happened.
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Voros

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« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2017, 01:29:30 am »
No one walks through this life without pissing someone off. Your adolescent gossip is is kinda pathetic.

I recall FM defending Arneson against the shittiness of Kask on Gary's thread, where Kask was being cheerleaded by Gary. He basically said why keep dragging up ancient history and shitting on others. So if he's  a secret asshole I can't imagine what the rest of the early TSR crew must be like 'in reality.'

GameDaddy

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« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2017, 01:56:46 am »
Quote from: Kellri;993111
I'll say this much more and that's it...I've got personal friends who have worked with the man and have warned me against doing the same. I've received some pretty mean-spirited PMs from the man - not as batshit insane as the one EOTB received - more than sufficient for me to realize what kind of man I was dealing with. I applaud EOTB for getting the situation out in the open. I applaud him for coming here to speak honestly about his feelings about the matter. I don't applaud Frank, because all he's done is try to shift the blame, gaslight, and act like a victim with no responsibility for what happened.

Our experiences, it would seem, ...are very different. I have worked with Frank, ...directly, ...several times over the last couple of decades. Not with game design, however with the auctions and marketing, and fundraising stuff, ... at Origins, at GenCon, and at GaryCon. Never saw one mean-spirited PM. I have never even seen him raise his voice at anyone he has worked with, or who has worked for him with either publicly, or privately, so I have to strongly disagree there is any significant problem there, based on my personal experiences in working with him.

As I have observed recently firsthand, he has worked with young publishers who are working on their own new games, he is extremely encouraging and helpful to them, and in their behalf. He genuinely wants everyone around him to enjoy RPGs and gaming, and not just his games. He wants folks to enjoy attending the conventions and gaming shows where he works as well, and spends lots of extra time ensuring the experience is good for the attendees and guests of the show, especially other game designers and manufacturers. I understand very well about getting testy when people are trying to slyly infer something negative, or whom minimize the contribution of individuals who have long contributed to the benefit of the gaming community, and would have to write off any malice or deception generated by that as just old fashioned envy.

I'm extremely surprised, and displeased, that all of this "situation" of yours is coming out right now, just as Frank is beginning to get some real momentum going for his business for the first time this decade. It seems to me, this whole charade is a character assassination job, targeting him specifically, and nothing more.

So EOTB gets Frank banned from Dragonsfoot, and now he is over here at the RPGSite forums lobbying why he was right to diss on anther game designer. Now no one is right to diss on any game designer, everyone who understands what that really means anyway. The people over on Dragoosfoot aren't dissing each other, simply because they are disagreeing with each other like we are right now. But unlike me and you who are busy, at the moment disagreeing, ...EOTB couldn't be bothered to give us the time of day, until of course, he could no longer torture his favorite victim.

Now like the bully that he is, he is traveling off to other forums and boards, ...like here, and trying to find new victims, ...and stirring up some more shit. ...and you are helping him. Congratulations.

I'm a guy who has been picked on my whole life for being different, for not being a part of the "in" group. Here I got away from them douches. Now though, him, and you   ...are here, disturbing my peace. You have no right to do that.

Maybe I'm happy to just buy Franks' new game supplement, his Empyrea campaign setting, and I'm happy for the people working on it, who are happy to be working on it. But you are not. You are here, right now, trying to tank his efforts. Standing up for some guy, that is openly attacked another game designer, a game designer that has spent decades of his life making good games. You may have the right to do that here on this forum where we actually promote free speech, but you'll get no respect from me, ...for doing that.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 01:59:43 am by GameDaddy »
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Spinachcat

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« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2017, 04:18:23 am »
Who hacked EOTB's account? His post was WAAAY to reasonable.


Quote from: Elfdart;992844
You're slinging chickenshit,


It's aerodynamic.


Quote from: P & P;992919
Bit butthurt about your ban still?


Dude, you are not helping promote Dragonsfoot.

BTW, for the rest of you, DF is a solid place for AD&D ideas and LOTS of free downloads of fan material.


Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;992952
Nothing ruins fun or creativity faster than an obligation to produce.


Agreed.

But you mentioned you enjoyed writing and not editing. Thus, the logical next step is for you to keep having fun writing your thoughts and stories, and then when you have a giant pile of great stuff, drop it all in an editor's lap to do the heavy lifting of prepping it for readers.

Willmark

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« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2017, 08:51:57 am »
This keeps getting better!

EOTB admits that he was a jackass for trolling Frank for over a year. Frank lashes out after for not only EOTB belittling his accomplishments but certain members of the Knights and Knaves Taliban think it's 100% is his fault? Here and elsewhere on the web? Classic.

Meanwhile, those of us grounded in reality realize that yes it wasn't Frank's finest hour (he's admitted as much) but at the same time over a year of harassment from zealots is going to set anyone off. EOTB admits it wasn't his either, but hey we can't let our misguided crusade to define Gary's legacy in our terms and no one else' falter now, to the ramparts! This isn't 100% Frank's fault, this isn't 100% EOTB's fault, the answer is somewhere in the middle.

And over what? Why is Frank to be attacked so? For the fact that his work was the best selling D&D product ever? Not the "Ye Holy Book" aka the 1st Edition DMG, not the PHB or MM by Gary, but the Red a Box. Really funny it burns the K&K Taliban's asses after all this time. But in the K&K Taliban's eyes that doesn't matter because he just "revised" someone else's work? (Aka one of the threads at DF where numerous K&K Taliban dog-piled about which number should be assigned to his "revision".) All of that is a bit rich considering Gary' relation with Dave and the origins of the game. But hey Taliban, keep up your selective hero worshiping!

And if you're a Taliban member responding in the negative to this post (since many of you can't help yourself) there a lot of us who don't give a shit about your hero worshiping or which version of D&D you prefer. The problem is when you leave your reservation. This is therpgsite. This isn't your enclave where you get to dictate the conversation. Here in no uncertain terms people will tell you quite clearly their mind. This isn't DF where you can shoot your mouth off and then go use the report function. In fact your instigation methods remind me of "Smugglypuff" last fall. You should look that up since it fits some to a T. Don't be surprised when those of us who won't take your shit and tell you where to go.

And keep up the defense of your attacks on Frank. Many of us don't see it. Because any interaction I've ever had with him have been great. Funny how the ones who have a problem with him primarily inhabit one website. How strange.

Lastly, it is weird that the main contention from the OSR Taliban has been Franks biggest accomplishment was a derivative work and thus worthy of scorn? Seems to me that OSR is entirely predicated on derivative work.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 12:55:53 pm by Willmark »
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« Reply #99 on: September 17, 2017, 09:07:00 am »
Quote from: Spinachcat;993142
Dude, you are not helping promote Dragonsfoot.

Not here to do that; this is the RPGsite.  It divides into people who already like Dragonsfoot, people who already hate it, people who aren't interested in 1e, and people who I wouldn't want to see there.
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fearsomepirate

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« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2017, 09:09:20 am »
I really like the Rules Cyclopedia. It is my favorite pre-5e edition of D&D.
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Willmark

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« Reply #101 on: September 17, 2017, 09:45:54 am »
Quote from: P-P;993166
...people who aren't interested in 1e.


Who are these people who aren't interested in 1st Edition?

Quote from: P&P;993166
and people who I wouldn't want to see there.


Something we agree on. When are you going to get rid of some posters that quite a few of us want gone?
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Dumarest

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« Reply #102 on: September 17, 2017, 11:26:44 am »
Is this thread going to talk about "Empyrea" at all?

Y Mab Darogan

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« Reply #103 on: September 17, 2017, 12:08:55 pm »
Quote from: Dumarest;993182
Is this thread going to talk about "Empyrea" at all?

Of course not.
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Christopher Brady

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« Reply #104 on: September 17, 2017, 01:29:29 pm »
Quote from: Dumarest;993182
Is this thread going to talk about "Empyrea" at all?

There's not much more to it, we'd need more news to chew on.
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