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Author Topic: Frank Mentzer is launching a new project: Empyrea  (Read 31537 times)

Elfdart

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« Reply #75 on: September 16, 2017, 05:16:18 am »
Quote from: Voros;992827
But you're okay with Pundit calling people cunts?? When did RPGSiters become so sensitive to someone blowing their gasket?


I think threatening to sic lawyers on people or threatening to blackball someone is orders of magnitude from simply calling someone a cunt.

Quote from: Spinachcat;992841
I am not a fan of the K&K forum, but its uncool to call them K&K Klansman. It insinuates a racism and criminality that isn't any part of their community.


Right, and calling 3E fans Threetards implies that 3E fans are retarded. You're slinging chickenshit, the likes of which I haven't seen since a few morons started pearl-clutching over episodes of Seinfeld, when an overbearing restaurant employee was dubbed "The Soup Nazi". These bed-wetters claimed it was diminishing the Holocaust or implying the asshole behind the counter wanted to gas Jews. Well you know what?

NO SOUP FOR YOU!
Jesus Fucking Christ, is this guy honestly that goddamned stupid? He can't understand the plot of a Star Wars film? We're not talking about "Rashomon" here, for fuck's sake. The plot is as linear as they come. If anything, the film tries too hard to fill in all the gaps. This guy must be a flaming retard.  --Mike Wong on Red Letter Moron's review of The Phantom Menace

S'mon

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« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2017, 05:21:20 am »
Quote from: Voros;992827
But you're okay with Pundit calling people cunts?? When did RPGSiters become so sensitive to someone blowing their gasket?

No, I put you on Ignore List. :p

Actually I do think Frank's threats against EOTB were worse than calling him a cunt. A threat is worse than abuse. And threats made in PM are worse than threats publically posted. If someone threatened me here, especially in PM, I would report it and I'd expect the threatener would be banned, that's theRPGsite policy.

I really hate to be in the position of taking EOTB's side*, his passive-aggressive trolling of Frank was pretty bad, especially the signature where he chopped up Frank's words to make out Frank was calling his 1983 Red Box D&D a kids' game. But that cannot justify what Frank did.

*I was on Frank's side arguing with EOTB in the 2015 thread that caused Frank to leave DF originally
- http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=70325&sid=dd575bd3aece66ad7c4e93a1f6648825&start=240 - by the look of things I was lucky not to get a mod warning myself.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 05:38:36 am by S'mon »
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Y Mab Darogan

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« Reply #77 on: September 16, 2017, 06:15:01 am »
Going back over their conversations it's quite clear EOTB is a prick.

And that list of designers who don't frequent DF anymore is missing a couple and frankly I'm not surprised.
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Voros

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« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2017, 06:20:56 am »
Quote from: S'mon;992845
No, I put you on Ignore List. :p

Actually I do think Frank's threats against EOTB were worse than calling him a cunt. A threat is worse than abuse. And threats made in PM are worse than threats publically posted. If someone threatened me here, especially in PM, I would report it and I'd expect the threatener would be banned, that's theRPGsite policy.

I really hate to be in the position of taking EOTB's side*, his passive-aggressive trolling of Frank was pretty bad, especially the signature where he chopped up Frank's words to make out Frank was calling his 1983 Red Box D&D a kids' game. But that cannot justify what Frank did.

*I was on Frank's side arguing with EOTB in the 2015 thread that caused Frank to leave DF originally
- http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=70325&sid=dd575bd3aece66ad7c4e93a1f6648825&start=240 - by the look of things I was lucky not to get a mod warning myself.

His threats are about as credible as Pundit's threat to send Rincewind to die in Gulag.

S'mon

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« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2017, 07:08:55 am »
Quote from: Voros;992857
His threats are about as credible as Pundit's threat to send Rincewind to die in Gulag.

"Credible threat" is a good standard for criminal prosecution. I don't think a threat needs to be credible to get you banned from an RPG bulletin board.
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Willmark

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« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2017, 08:25:37 am »
Very interesting pattern to this forum on DF:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=106

Note the dates. Nah, it's simply coincidence that the various TSR alum have been abandoning DF for years as the amount posting of K&K Taliban increased.

Funny that.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 11:19:53 am by Willmark »
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fearsomepirate

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« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2017, 08:40:10 am »
Quote from: Kellri;992833
I quite liked the part where he threatened to prevent the guy from using the postal service to buy gaming pdfs or register for a convention ever again. I gotta think Frank either developed a rather serious methamphetamine problem or is suffering from not-so-early-onset Alzheimer's-related symptoms. OTOH, it would be absolutely hilarious if DrivethroughRPG or GenCon replied with an email that flatly stated 'Sorry, we cannot do business with you Mr. EOTB as we have been warned by Frank Mentzer in a very serious voice against such trade. We wish we could help, but no dice.' I mean, shit....that would be like getting blackballed by the Travellers' Aid Society. You'd be fucked and there's nothing you could ever do about it, amirite?


You'd be surprised just how often mildly famous people threaten to call the internet police on trolls.
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Y Mab Darogan

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« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2017, 08:49:59 am »
Quote from: Willmark;992869
Very interesting pattern to this forum on DF:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=106

Note the dates. Nah, it's simply coincidence that the various TSR alum have been abandoning DF for year as the amount of K&K Taliban increased.

Funny that.

Even the few that pop on do so with far less frequency
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P&P

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« Reply #83 on: September 16, 2017, 01:10:58 pm »
Quote from: Willmark;992869
Very interesting pattern to this forum on DF:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=106

Note the dates. Nah, it's simply coincidence that the various TSR alum have been abandoning DF for years as the amount posting of K&K Taliban increased.

Funny that.

Bit butthurt about your ban still?
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Willmark

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« Reply #84 on: September 16, 2017, 02:28:53 pm »
Hardly. 3 day time off? I wear it as a badge of honor considering the source.

Best part is I almost missed it.

Even better? Three days for an implication? Too funny.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 02:30:59 pm by Willmark »
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DiscoSoup

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« Reply #85 on: September 16, 2017, 03:00:31 pm »
So is this where we're supposed to ask whether he's using paid or volunteer writers? :D

Interesting thing is that I've heard that therpgsite is supposed to be this site for mean folks, but Pundit's pretty cool about welcoming people. I've seen folks who clearly have opposing views here but nothing seems to get nasty.
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Voros

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« Reply #86 on: September 16, 2017, 04:28:34 pm »
Quote from: Willmark;992869
Very interesting pattern to this forum on DF:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=106

Note the dates. Nah, it's simply coincidence that the various TSR alum have been abandoning DF for years as the amount posting of K&K Taliban increased.

Funny that.


DF regulars are spreading out on blogs and G+ to defend the forum and are being such assholes they're turning off even more people. As you say outside the controlled confines ofntheir clubhouse they don't seem to be able to handle themselves well around others.

Gronan of Simmerya

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« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2017, 04:34:18 pm »
Quote from: Spinachcat;992840
Dealing with the public is a mess.

But you still gotta finish your book!

If the mood takes me.

Some place you suggested I do a Kickstarter to get an editor.  The problem with that is, I than am beholden to other people.  Right now, nobody has put even a single penny into this, and though they could call me a lazy asshole or pompous gasbag for not working on it, I've been called far worse, but I DON'T OWE ANYBODY A DAMN THING.  Nothing ruins fun or creativity faster than an obligation to produce.



Quote from: Spinachcat;992840

That's just the peanut butter on the tip.

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Voros

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« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2017, 06:07:17 pm »
I'm surprised no one has created a Q&A collage 'oral history' of D&D like the great book on American punk rock Please Kill Me which seems to have populaized the form and led to books on SNL, The Other Hollywood (the porn industry), various other regional punk scenes, etc.

EOTB

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« Reply #89 on: September 16, 2017, 07:16:43 pm »
I released the PM knowing it would make a bunch of people angry.  Since this thread focused on what I did for the last few pages, I'll come here to let people tell me directly, if they care, their opinion.  And then it can go back to its intended purpose.  I'm not going to get into a running debate on the subject, but I'll take whatever public beating people want to dish out while they know I can see it.

Quote from: HorusArisen;992856
Going back over their conversations it's quite clear EOTB is a prick.

Deserved.

Quote from: S'mon;992845
I really hate to be in the position of taking EOTB's side*, his passive-aggressive trolling of Frank was pretty bad, especially the signature where he chopped up Frank's words to make out Frank was calling his 1983 Red Box D&D a kids' game. But that cannot justify what Frank did..

Also mostly deserved.  I would asterisk one portion as described below.

Look, when I said this entire incident caused some reflection on my part, I meant it.  I don't excuse myself; I don't excuse my counterpart in this affair.  I've wasted a lot of time on RPG forums debating people about RPGs.  And it's all pretty pointless, really.  For all that people decry echo chambers, I'm now of the opinion that echo chambers are probably the only productive way to discuss them.  

RPGs are emotional things to us, given how we interact with them.  The number of people who both use them frequently and are dispassionate enough to discuss them even-handedly is so small as to be irrelevant.  When Frank gave his opinion about people who play RPGs a certain way I took great offense because it was essentially an opinion about me, or people I considered friends, and an attempt to dissuade people from playing as I play.  Just as how from the opposite side of the spectrum, when Voros saw opinions said, where he wasn't, about RPGs played a certain way, or people he considered friends, he took great offense and has since posted quite a bit about it.  Quite possibly because he considered it an opinion essentially about him.  

Not to pick on Voros except as a handy example, but neither he nor I are really capable about changing our minds.  We're invested.  Let's not pretend that the favor of the most vocal detractors on this thread is possible to obtain under any circumstances.  It wasn't possible before this week, and it won't be possible next week.  This is why I say that debating RPGs, I think, is essentially a negative outcome.  Even if there are some with whom it would be productive, the collateral damage with those with whom it is not isn't worth the activity - which brings no value in and of itself, really.  Better to identify people you're in tune with and work the creative synergy, in this specific hobby.

For myself, after Frank implied a willingness to meet with me and asked me to specifically identify myself for that purpose, and I agreed to, and then he turned around immediately afterwards and sent the first unexpected message to me - I was not really capable of changing my mind anymore.  There is no unreleased info in this chain.  I want to emphasize: the only non-public communication from me to Frank was telling him I was willing to meet with him at his request.

The sig thing was petulant of me.  After getting back the response I did after saying I was willing to meet and hash it out, I was pissed.  

So no, no dancing with anyone on RPGs anymore, I don't think.  It's a colossal waste of time.  Nobody's going to change their minds about anything.  Serve your fellow enthusiasts with creative output and let the haters hang.

But again - not sorry about releasing the PM.  I thought DF was very complementary to Frank, even in its message of explanation, and in return Frank was letting them burn in public opinion.  He apparently discussed the situation with Tenkar - I don't know what was said, or how accurate it was, or anything else.  But nothing released out of that conversation was along the lines of "mistakes were made", and like DF held him in no ill will, he didn't likewise.  

Frank's saying he forgives everyone and is moving on.  I'm doing likewise.  But if anyone wants to tell me off for the incident, they can do it here.  Or in another thread given this one's purpose.  I didn't hit the post button expecting to take zero heat or fallout.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 07:32:31 pm by EOTB »
A framework for generating local politics

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