Can't see how Mentzer's mild mockery of the clique at DF justifies a ban. Seems it is rapidly becoming K&KA Mach II.

Quote from: Elfdart;992089He hasn't done much of anything interesting since he left TSR.

The exact same could be said of Gygax but that didn't prevent those at DF from enthusiastically burying their faces in Gary's ass for hundreds and hundreds of pages.

Quote from: Voros;992198Can't see how Mentzer's mild mockery of the clique at DF justifies a ban. Seems it is rapidly becoming K&KA Mach II.

Actually, there's a LOT more to it than some 'mild mockery'. Details have emerged today that show Frank sending at least one batshit-crazy private message the likes of which would earn a permaban on almost any rpg forum. The DF mods confirmed it was indeed from Frank. Kind of sad actually to see someone that once was at the top of the gaming world turn out to be just another raging lunatic with flecks of spittle on his keyboard. Whither that Kickstart now?

http://knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14851

That message from Frank sounds like he needs to moderate his meds more and stop mixing them with Wild Turkey.

However, EotB crying about a PM and sharing it with his mod clique buddies, and then post the private conversation publicly, just makes him seem like a pathetic little bitch.

Who is this EOTB?

Honestly I suspect some of these sites would ban Gary frigging Gygax if he questioned the holy writ.

Personally I'm a fan of Franks early work and look forward to checking the new stuff out but if it's crap I'll not be picking it up.

Quote from: HorusArisen;992239Who is this EOTB?

He is (or was, I've seen his name, but it might be from old threads) a member here, and is on Dragonsfoot. 2-4 years ago, a fight broke out over a trivial discussion* on Dragonsfoot that lead Frank to say he was going to mostly leave. Frank popped back in to announce his kickstarter, and EotB asked him what could either be construed as an innocuous or a baiting question, and then some stuff the rest of us can't see happened behind the scenes (as Dumarest mentions, it's hard to tell what is going on) and it was announced that DF and Frank were parting ways.
*The scenario was that third person XYZ was a DM in a TSR-era game (of the gp=xp era), and the party thief was stealing from the party (like lots, like, they were several levels ahead of the party because of the xp discrepancy). Frank thought that was the player being a jerk. EotB thought something along the lines of, 'hey, in Gary-penned editions, it's clearly inferred that the thief stealing from the party should be something they should be on the lookout for, so apparently this is a type of play the game is expected to address'. This somehow morphed into Frank being responsible for the pussification of D&D, and it just kept getting worse from there (in both directions). The actual threads have been chopped up, with some of the worst things excised. So I'd say it's genuinely impossible at this point for those of us not present at the time to determine who was worse than whom, but only that no one came out smelling at all good.

I do not pretend to know what is going on. The K&K post is there and all (although posting a PM to a public forum is very dirty pool of EotB, even if Frank should have seen it coming), but without context it really doesn't tell me anything. That really angry person doesn't sound very rational when angry (and opponent gets to choose what context to strip out) is non-informative.

I for one am going to continue with my plans regarding the kickstarter as if I knew nothing of this dustup (because, in the end, I really do know nothing).

Not even a little interested in another bit of drama in the gaming world.

Quote from: HorusArisen;992239Honestly I suspect some of these sites would ban Gary frigging Gygax if he questioned the holy writ.

This has nothing to do with holy writs. This has to do with who (if anyone) is the actual jerk in a fight and what, if anything, forum moderators are supposed to do with regards to policing dust-ups when people go at each other hammer and tongs. Dragonsfoot does not have the clear and obvious and well-known policies that ideologically pure sites like therpgsite and TBP (which, if nothing else, you know what you are getting into) have when it comes to controlling what is allowed. DF has been trying to thread that needle since I've known of them (probably 2 decades now).

Gary actually had a significant presence on DF, it was one of his main sites. His reputed cantankerousness was either never real or had softened significantly by the time he got there (perhaps he had just gotten entirely used to there being X% of the D&D fandom who questioned his competence/motives/general decency and that was just a fact of life). I don't recall him ever doing or saying anything where they either banned him or would have banned someone else but didn't ban him because of who he was.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;992248Not even a little interested in another bit of drama in the gaming world.

Pretty much this.

Quote from: CRKrueger;992229That message from Frank sounds like he needs to moderate his meds more and stop mixing them with Wild Turkey.

However, EotB crying about a PM and sharing it with his mod clique buddies, and then post the private conversation publicly, just makes him seem like a pathetic little bitch.

DF's "policy" encourages posters to be pathetic little bitches. Part of the reason for that is DF's half-baked Miss Manners moderating style where mods tell people arguing to take it to PMs, which really brings out the passive-aggressive asshole in some posters (the blatant double-standards don't help either). In other words, I think calling another poster a crybaby, or dishonest in the forum (both of which got me suspended) is preferable to challenging someone to fisticuffs via PM (which a poster sent to my inbox with no repercussions).

Quote from: Willie the Duck;992252This has nothing to do with holy writs. This has to do with who (if anyone) is the actual jerk in a fight and what, if anything, forum moderators are supposed to do with regards to policing dust-ups when people go at each other hammer and tongs. Dragonsfoot does not have the clear and obvious and well-known policies that ideologically pure sites like therpgsite and TBP (which, if nothing else, you know what you are getting into) have when it comes to controlling what is allowed. DF has been trying to thread that needle since I've known of them (probably 2 decades now).

Gary actually had a significant presence on DF, it was one of his main sites. His reputed cantankerousness was either never real or had softened significantly by the time he got there (perhaps he had just gotten entirely used to there being X% of the D&D fandom who questioned his competence/motives/general decency and that was just a fact of life). I don't recall him ever doing or saying anything where they either banned him or would have banned someone else but didn't ban him because of who he was.

Gary died before DF went nutso with the KKA assholes.

I read the PM and he shouldn't have sent it but I understand why he did it.

Quote from: Ulairi;992258I read the PM and he shouldn't have sent it but I understand why he did it.

Honestly?
I don't. I don't think any amount of trolling (trolling, not harassment) excuses that kind of answer.
They invented Ignore lists for a reason, and I think every adult should know -and live by- the old adage: "Don't feed the trolls".
As much as EOTB was trolling, I'd probably be willing to spend money on a lawyer for him if it ever came to that.

Now Mentzer claims he never sent that PM. If true then he's owed an apology. On the other hand, he could be trying to bullshit his way out of this like Ted Cruz did when he blamed "staffing issues" when his Twitter account liked a bootleg porn video a few days ago.

Quote from: Elfdart;992284Now Mentzer claims he never sent that PM. If true then he's owed an apology. On the other hand, he could be trying to bullshit his way out of this like Ted Cruz did when he blamed "staffing issues" when his Twitter account liked a bootleg porn video a few days ago.

Let's just ignore for a minute how ridiculously easy it would be to check forum logs and determine that, yes, indeed the PM came from the same IP address as other public (but equally batshit crazy) posts made from the same account. Equally easy would be for the DF mods to confirm whether or not Frank had indeed complained about hackers at any point prior to yesterday - as he is now claiming.

Let's also ignore the redacted names from that PM. Those are the people Frank was claiming were on-board professionals in his upcoming Kickstart project. If those names come out, it's going to be real difficult to simply claim 'I was Hacked!' - unless you also admit that this mystery hacker somehow also had access to some very specific and unreleased info about the project only Frank would know.

Honest, your honor. I'm innocent. I have no idea how those condoms full of cocaine got into my lower intestine. Of course, I'm not a proctologist, so a detailed analysis of such a medical anomaly is beyond me. I will say, this whole 'smuggling' kerfuffle is as surprising to me as anyone. It's a damn shame when a man cannot even be sure about his own body. Do you think I should consult a lawyer? This libel has gone on long enough! Oh the humanity!

I know and like Frank, I think EOTB (before this) is a shitnozzle.

And you know, 30+ years of people ragging on you gets wearying.  I'm only surprised that Frank, Tim, Jim, et al, have even bothered trying out gaming again.

There's good reason Dave Trampier disappeared.  There is a high enough percentage of ass-weasels in the gaming community to make it utterly unpleasant.