I've always liked the concept of mutation. While usually it brings up the idea of sci-fi and superhero stuff (The X-Men and TMNT come to mind) I've seen it applied to older fantasy works quite a bit. There's some weird pulpy feel to seeing the word "mutant" when applied to a fantasy creature. Like the mutant four armed gargoyle in The Tomb of Horrors, for example. A sense of power, if you will, because "Mutant" in this case tends to be synonymous with "weird trait that makes them invariably stronger".

Generally when I use mutant in this case, I'm referring to a setting where this would be somewhat out of place (so no superhero stuff, where you can find mutants on every street corner next to the cyborgs, aliens and mad scientists) like D&D and such. Dark Sun is a borderline example.

Some ideas that this brings to mind include a creature getting psionic powers (the classical mutation, IMO). Perhaps it's something simple like a creature having natural armor, sharp claws or being bigger, or something gonzo like magma-pleated skin or laser eyes. It'd be something rare, something that'd occur rarely and give the PCs a memorable encounter. Perhaps these mutant individuals have a special place in their society (like a society of Goblins worshipping the one Goblin with psychic powers as a shaman or cyclopi seeing a larger cyclops as a great individual for being bigger).

Rarely, this might be something you give to a PC. There's also the use of mutagenic substances in fantasy. Pathfinder's Strange Fluids come to mind (which should be called Mutagen, IMO, but that's apparently what the alchemist drinks...) where it has a chance of giving you some cool powers or killing you (separate rant on random mutation tables. For another time, perhaps).; Personally I wish more games would use something like that.

Hopefully this doesn't read like half thought out ramblings. Does anyone have anything to input on the subject? Ideas? Examples? Stuff you used in your campaign?

Quote from: PsyXypher on October 27, 2021, 01:49:56 PMThere's some weird pulpy feel to seeing the word "mutant" when applied to a fantasy creature.

Yeah. Once you start talking about mutations, you're talking about DNA which makes your setting low tech sci-fi rather than fantasy (ala Dark Suns).

Mutations in fantasy have typically been associated with chaos and demons, but there isn't really a separate word for "magical mutations" so the distinction isn't clear.  As an old Runequest player, these chaotic mutations are very familiar to me. I use them often now to apply to a few cursed races, such as giants, to explain how some giants have two heads or only one eye.

As for a mutagenic substance, once you start sprouting extra limbs, things are going to go downhill fast.

Quote from: PsyXypher on October 27, 2021, 01:49:56 PM
I've always liked the concept of mutation. While usually it brings up the idea of sci-fi and superhero stuff (The X-Men and TMNT come to mind) I've seen it applied to older fantasy works quite a bit. There's some weird pulpy feel to seeing the word "mutant" when applied to a fantasy creature. Like the mutant four armed gargoyle in The Tomb of Horrors, for example. A sense of power, if you will, because "Mutant" in this case tends to be synonymous with "weird trait that makes them invariably stronger".

Generally when I use mutant in this case, I'm referring to a setting where this would be somewhat out of place (so no superhero stuff, where you can find mutants on every street corner next to the cyborgs, aliens and mad scientists) like D&D and such. Dark Sun is a borderline example.

Some ideas that this brings to mind include a creature getting psionic powers (the classical mutation, IMO). Perhaps it's something simple like a creature having natural armor, sharp claws or being bigger, or something gonzo like magma-pleated skin or laser eyes. It'd be something rare, something that'd occur rarely and give the PCs a memorable encounter. Perhaps these mutant individuals have a special place in their society (like a society of Goblins worshipping the one Goblin with psychic powers as a shaman or cyclopi seeing a larger cyclops as a great individual for being bigger).

Rarely, this might be something you give to a PC. There's also the use of mutagenic substances in fantasy. Pathfinder's Strange Fluids come to mind (which should be called Mutagen, IMO, but that's apparently what the alchemist drinks...) where it has a chance of giving you some cool powers or killing you (separate rant on random mutation tables. For another time, perhaps).; Personally I wish more games would use something like that.

Hopefully this doesn't read like half thought out ramblings. Does anyone have anything to input on the subject? Ideas? Examples? Stuff you used in your campaign?

The system I just finished writing leans more Thundarr the Barbarian and so has Mutant (with lots of potential variants) as a playable race that, in the default setting were created by the uncontrolled magical energies of the Cataclysm that destroyed the world that was.

In the default setting, orcs, ogres, troglodytes, ettins and trolls are all examples of mutant humans. Likewise, among the non-playable monsters, the chimera and hydras are mutants.

Mutations in a fantasy setting are going to be caused by exposure to things 'not of nature'. So go nuts. Wander into a fairy ring or stand too close to an entrance to the underworld, and things could change for you drastically (or for your descendants -- if you want to come up with an alternate explanation as to where sorcerer bloodlines or various planetouched races come from, it's a start).

You might look into Hard Magic by Larry Correa. It is the first book of his Grimnoire chronicles.

It's sort of post WW1 Diesel Punk alt history in a world in the mid to late 1930s where magic emerged and gave certain people powers and some of them banded together to do bad things while other banded together to stop them. It has super blimps, focuses on the emergence of Imperial Japan as the big villainous force in the world, and has John Moses Browning as a character. People will magic powers are for all practical purposes X-Men style mutants minus any physical deformity like scales or wings. The magic powers tend to be powers as in skills, senses or specific abilities not various spells though that sort of magic also exist. The storyline suggests that the Kaiser tried to use Necromancy to end WW1 his way and it led to a chunk of the AustroHungarian empire being condemned and zombie haunted.There is a plot with a magical atomic bomb and other fun nonsense. It would probably have a lot to draw on for a fantasy setting with mutants. It plays fast and loose and drops names from our history and it has no love or patience for presidents like Wilson or FDR.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on October 27, 2021, 02:11:34 PM

Quote from: PsyXypher on October 27, 2021, 01:49:56 PMThere's some weird pulpy feel to seeing the word "mutant" when applied to a fantasy creature.

Yeah. Once you start talking about mutations, you're talking about DNA which makes your setting low tech sci-fi rather than fantasy (ala Dark Suns).

Mutations in fantasy have typically been associated with chaos and demons, but there isn't really a separate word for "magical mutations" so the distinction isn't clear.  As an old Runequest player, these chaotic mutations are very familiar to me. I use them often now to apply to a few cursed races, such as giants, to explain how some giants have two heads or only one eye.

As for a mutagenic substance, once you start sprouting extra limbs, things are going to go downhill fast.

Warhammer Fantasy

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 28, 2021, 02:35:45 PM

Warhammer Fantasy

Warhammer is a bad example of what I'm trying to get at because Mutations can happen spontaneously. I was more thinking of more "Natural" (as in, it happened when the person in question was born) I'm struggling to think of a good fantasy example, other than the aforementioned Gargoyle in the Tomb of Horrors. That, and Mutations in Warhammer have as much as a chance of being harmful as beneficial. Same with Strange Fluids from Pathfinder.

Side rant, but I hate how so many mutation tables have a "One or more of the random results you can get are harmful to represent negative mutations". I feel like that should be a separate table. Stuff like deformities and insanities to go along with your new mutant powers, not taking the place of them.

Also Hedgehobbit is absolutely right. Extra pairs of arms can easily turn things into hell very quickly.

Quote from: PsyXypher on October 28, 2021, 08:41:54 PMWarhammer is a bad example of what I'm trying to get at because Mutations can happen spontaneously. I was more thinking of more "Natural" (as in, it happened when the person in question was born) I'm struggling to think of a good fantasy example, other than the aforementioned Gargoyle in the Tomb of Horrors. That, and Mutations in Warhammer have as much as a chance of being harmful as beneficial.

I find this a strange sentiment. In the real world, mutations are almost always negative. No one has a kid who is born with the ability to shoot lasers from their eyes or is supernaturally strong. Most likely, a mutation will just result in a deformity.

It's almost as if you are expecting X-Men types of "mutation" rather than anything semi-realistic.

Quote from: PsyXypher on October 28, 2021, 08:41:54 PM
I was more thinking of more "Natural" (as in, it happened when the person in question was born) I'm struggling to think of a good fantasy example, other than the aforementioned Gargoyle in the Tomb of Horrors.

For a more magical feel, you could make the "mutations" spontaneous and wondrous changes, like the metamorphoses at the end of each of the stories in Ovid's collection of the same name.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on October 29, 2021, 03:59:17 PM

Quote from: PsyXypher on October 28, 2021, 08:41:54 PMWarhammer is a bad example of what I'm trying to get at because Mutations can happen spontaneously. I was more thinking of more "Natural" (as in, it happened when the person in question was born) I'm struggling to think of a good fantasy example, other than the aforementioned Gargoyle in the Tomb of Horrors. That, and Mutations in Warhammer have as much as a chance of being harmful as beneficial.

I find this a strange sentiment. In the real world, mutations are almost always negative. No one has a kid who is born with the ability to shoot lasers from their eyes or is supernaturally strong. Most likely, a mutation will just result in a deformity.

It's almost as if you are expecting X-Men types of "mutation" rather than anything semi-realistic.

Sort of a middle ground, kinda? I don't know how to really explain it. Like, instead of getting outright superpowers you have some odd trait that makes your survival easier (at least, in theory). Like being larger or having an extra set of functional arms. In real life, a mutation is usually negative, but it can be positive, and positive mutations can greatly increase survival rate. So for example, you've got someone with unusual strong muscles, perhaps more than normal, who ends up the leader of a bandit tribe because no one can reliably defeat an eight foot tall hulking berserker.

I'm trying to keep within something that'd seem feasible within a setting like D&D. I wouldn't quite use the term "Realistic" but I'm trying to keep Verisimilitude. In real life, the "giant" example would cause death by 40, probably sooner due to crummy fantasy world healthcare. A more "realistic" example would be someone born with a myostatin reduction, causing their body to limit muscle growth. This is seen in mice as well as at least one person; a child in Germany. Though this makes a famine a bigger liability.

Am I making any sense? I don't feel like I am...