Comic book physics question: What happens when a psychic capable of causing spontaneous combustion focuses his power on someone in a tank or suit of powered armor?
Assume that the psychic's power is strong enough to heat a suit of armor up to the point that it off-gases and ignites. How long does the suit remain operational? Can it be cooled off and repaired? Is it instantly destroyed?
What about just the effects of this power in general? Could it be turned on steel building supports?
How do you picture this sort of power working? Does the psychic's power really just reflect the ability to heat a certain amount of material and while it gets hot, it only ignites if the psychic gets it past its ignition temperature?
I hadn't thought about it much before now, but this kind of power sounds as annoying to adjudicate as magnetism.
I know I haven't explained anything about the scale of my game system, but hopefully you could give some advice on the spirit and execution of the following power, giving me some advice on how to make the physics here... make sense...
Spontaneous Combustion
The psychic can set unattended objects on fire with just a thought. Easily combustible material such as wood, paper, certain chemicals, gasoline, and cloth can be ignited without a roll. Igniting material that is more difficult to combust, such as aluminum, requires a Willpower roll of 25+. If the psychic fails by five or less, the material will not ignite though it will become too hot to touch, causing severe burns to anyone that comes in contact with it.
If the psychic is attempting to ignite an object being held by a person, an object that is connected to a human through a neural interface jack, or a person directly, the target can apply some active defense. The victim gets to make a Willpower saving throw. The difficulty of using this power is equal to that saving throw, or 25, whichever is lower.
Anyone touching a super heated object suffers 1d6 points of damage per round. Objects combusted are instantly destroyed.
The psychic must be within 30’ of any object he wishes to set ablaze. When igniting low fire point objects, the psychic can ignite everything in a 10’ radius. When igniting objects resistant to combustion, he can only effect a 3’ radius.
Your thread title is confusing. I expected a discussion about Firestarter mechs fighting against Elementals.
Quote from: Phantom Black;447193Your thread title is confusing. I expected a discussion about Firestarter mechs fighting against Elementals.
Heh, I was thinking of the little girl from the Steven King novel vs. Ironman.
Based on the Combustion power description as currently written, it's a moot question - the power only works on 'unattended' objects. Surely a suit of armor that's being worn is 'attended', like a held weapon in the description - so it's all going to come down to the target's defense.
Which is kinda weak-sauce. Hmm. It's like the power attacks the object, except when somebody can 'reach out' psychically and defend the object - and they you're attacking the person. It's like two powers in one, and they don't quite jibe for me just yet.
Generally speaking, though, I think having the ability to make power armor superheat and/or burst into flames spontaneously is a big freaking deal. That's a huge power if you let it work that way. At the very least, the firestarter should have to target the exposed fuel lines or something and have those go up.
I liked how Pyro/Cryo was handled in Gamma World 1e. In the first round, you did 1D6 damage. In the second round, you did 2D6 to the same target, and so on up to 10D6 damage maximum, but you required to focus and concentrate on the target. So yeah, you could meltdown a guy in PA, only if the guy or his buds didn't pop you before you built up enough heat/cold to overcome the strength of the materials.
Off the top of my head I've always seen Pyro as the ability to excite molecules making them move so fast they heat up and eventually combust. Thus the denser and more complex the material, the harder it is to heat up. I don't know where this comes from but I'm sure I read it somewhere and it stuck. So, you could melt steel beams but it would be far easier to ignite paper. It's also probably simpler to avoid or abstract concepts such as surface to mass ratio, but it might be something to consider.
The potential for abuse is high but the saving throw for personal gear should help with that.
Pete
Surely a psychic would just cook the guy inside the armour instead and leave the armour unharmed but in need of a bloody good clean out to remove fried pilot afterwards?
Quote from: VectorSigma;447215Based on the Combustion power description as currently written, it's a moot question - the power only works on 'unattended' objects. Surely a suit of armor that's being worn is 'attended', like a held weapon in the description - so it's all going to come down to the target's defense.
Which is kinda weak-sauce. Hmm. It's like the power attacks the object, except when somebody can 'reach out' psychically and defend the object - and they you're attacking the person. It's like two powers in one, and they don't quite jibe for me just yet.
Generally speaking, though, I think having the ability to make power armor superheat and/or burst into flames spontaneously is a big freaking deal. That's a huge power if you let it work that way. At the very least, the firestarter should have to target the exposed fuel lines or something and have those go up.
Sorry if it wasn't clear enough. This is in the second paragraph of the power:
QuoteIf the psychic is attempting to ignite an object being held by a person, an object that is connected to a human through a neural interface jack, or a person directly, the target can apply some active defense. The victim gets to make a Willpower saving throw. The difficulty of using this power is equal to that saving throw, or 25, whichever is lower.
so it does work on attended objects, it can just be harder.
I know it is a big deal, but I've always had spells and abilities in my games that let characters mash armor like paper. My game is more rocket tag than anything else.
I'd agree though.
Quote from: Spinachcat;447217I liked how Pyro/Cryo was handled in Gamma World 1e. In the first round, you did 1D6 damage. In the second round, you did 2D6 to the same target, and so on up to 10D6 damage maximum, but you required to focus and concentrate on the target. So yeah, you could meltdown a guy in PA, only if the guy or his buds didn't pop you before you built up enough heat/cold to overcome the strength of the materials.
That is a pretty good idea. The game actually already has a DR system for armor. I could give the fire started a rating per round until it reaches enough, based on the DR, to ignite it - which would destroy it.
Quote from: Broken-Serenity;447221Surely a psychic would just cook the guy inside the armour instead and leave the armour unharmed but in need of a bloody good clean out to remove fried pilot afterwards?
I could let it work that way to. That would be pretty fucking horrible though (;
It would avoid the physics of catching the actual suit on fire while still letting the psychic take it out.
Do you want the psychic firestarter in your game to be able to stop a tank, and if so, how difficult do you want it to be for her to do that? Decide how you want it to work in regard to the final outcome and odds you think are most enjoyable and cook the numbers accordingly. When you're talking about psychic powers vs powered armor, "realism" or "the way things would work in the real world" was left behind about 5 steps back, and is a red herring. Decide on the way you want it to work, cook the numbers to make it work that way, and come up with the "realistic" explanation after the fact, IMO.
Is this secretly a RIFTS question? Because it sure sounds like a RIFTS question... are you secretly playing RIFTS?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;447294Is this secretly a RIFTS question? Because it sure sounds like a RIFTS question... are you secretly playing RIFTS?
RPGPundit
I'm certainly influenced by Rifts. My home brew has a lot of things in common - powersuits, magic, psychics, martial arts, chi, super skills, super powers... it isn't PA though and it uses my own system.
I have run Rifts using my system though, and its awesome.
Quote from: two_fishes;447283Do you want the psychic firestarter in your game to be able to stop a tank, and if so, how difficult do you want it to be for her to do that? Decide how you want it to work in regard to the final outcome and odds you think are most enjoyable and cook the numbers accordingly. When you're talking about psychic powers vs powered armor, "realism" or "the way things would work in the real world" was left behind about 5 steps back, and is a red herring. Decide on the way you want it to work, cook the numbers to make it work that way, and come up with the "realistic" explanation after the fact, IMO.
If I said realism, I didn't really mean realism. More like, if someone can set a powersuit ablaze instantly, what could they do to a house? That's my only issue with it working the way I actually want it to (instantly).
Something exactly like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4NhPvL4cYY)
Quote from: thedungeondelver;447319Something exactly like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4NhPvL4cYY)
For sure.
Although even after seeing that, I'd be surprised if he could raise the temperature of the air or room like that.
What if the power was redefined as the psychic ability to destroy one thing you are looking at?
Quote from: Cranewings;447335For sure.
Although even after seeing that, I'd be surprised if he could raise the temperature of the air or room like that.
What if the power was redefined as the psychic ability to destroy one thing you are looking at?
In the comic, IIRC, he does some pretty amazing stuff; teleportation, loads of psychokinesis, and I think, maybe, some pyrokinesis.
I could be remembering wrong though. Time for a re-read.
Quote from: Cranewings;447335What if the power was redefined as the psychic ability to destroy one thing you are looking at?
Like an entropy power? That'd be pretty metal.
Could also roll with the objects-in-use vs unattended objects thing easily if you have a different system for affecting living things (which are terribly complex etc) and anything in close contact with their morphogenetic* field (which has a tendency to envelop and exert itself upon equipment in close proximity to a person - yes, even (and especially) powered armor, since it's human-shaped anyhow).
(* = Sheldrake aside, I mean this as psy-fi technobabble to explain the mechanic)
It would kind of be like an entropic power from other games, but I really want this to be listed with the pyrokinetic powers, partly because I really like it and partly because I used to love Fire Starter.
Anyway, I'm thinking of expanding the fluff to really drive home the idea that psychic powers entirely have to do with the idea that reality is born from conscious perception, and that the psychics will over that perception changes the reality. I really want to divorce psychic phenomenon completely from the idea that they are somehow interacting with physical phenomenon in a scientific way. The pyro isn't exciting molecules or projecting energy - he is transmuting the object of his will into a thing on fire through shear perception.
I have to wonder if there are people, even on theRPGsite, who won't admit that they secretly play and enjoy RIFTS.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;447616I have to wonder if there are people, even on theRPGsite, who won't admit that they secretly play and enjoy RIFTS.
RPGPundit
I might like Rifts more than you sense I actually had a lot of fun with Rifts Africa (;
Quote from: Cranewings;447675I might like Rifts more than you sense I actually had a lot of fun with Rifts Africa (;
Crazy. Well, there's something for everyone, I suppose, and vice-versa.
RPGPundit