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Author Topic: FIRE FORWARD BATTERIES!! *bonk* WTF?  (Read 1212 times)

T-Willard

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FIRE FORWARD BATTERIES!! *bonk* WTF?
« on: March 14, 2006, 08:56:44 PM »
Minor pet peeve of mine, especially with starships, is the damage.

Please, I'd be better off shooting 15th level 1/2Orc barbarians at enemy starships than anything else.

I've heard everything from: "To make it fair" to "It was just decided that way."

Seriously, take a good look at the damages. You'd be better off bolting 10th level wizards to your hull.

I've got a few more complaints about Starship combat, but I'm feeling a bit tossed.

What's your opinion on ranges that should be measured in light seconds, and damages that make it impossible to kill a 15th level barbarian?
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Dacke

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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2006, 01:08:09 AM »
My opinion is that d20 is probably not the best system for sci-fi gaming. I'd rather use Alternity, where if you hit an Ordinary-scale target (like a person) with Amazing-scale weaponry (small spaceships - think X-wings or Millenium Falcon), at the very least they will be taking Mortal damage, and that's for relatively poor weaponry getting in pretty bad hits.
 

Bagpuss

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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2006, 04:16:16 AM »
Please specify which system you are talking about, before you start your rant.
 

Cyclotron

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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2006, 07:24:56 AM »
Quote from: T-Willard
I've got a few more complaints about Starship combat, but I'm feeling a bit tossed.

What's your opinion on ranges that should be measured in light seconds, and damages that make it impossible to kill a 15th level barbarian?

Play Spycraft 2.0, where a single salvo of 8d10 (explosive, AP 25) HE artillery shells has a decent chance of disabling or destroying a cruiser or a battleship, even with its hefty +30 damage save.

Then pick the Farthest Star Spycraft .pdf suppliment that's coming out later this spring that will introduce rules for sci-fi settings, including Chase rules for space that feature ranges in light-seconds, speeds in fractions of light speed, and rounds that take minutes or more.
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Ottomsoh the Elderly

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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2006, 07:45:34 AM »
Quote from: Bagpuss
Please specify which system you are talking about, before you start your rant.


With the mixing together of orcs, wizards, and starships, I'd say d20 D&D in the Dragonstar setting, but I think it's actually d20 Modern in a sci-fi game.
 

Knightcrawler

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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2006, 05:54:23 PM »
My experience so far with sci-fi settings that include space battles is that none of them are satisfying.  They never seem to be able to capture the feel of battles in space.
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Cyclotron

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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2006, 06:18:39 PM »
Quote from: Knightcrawler
My experience so far with sci-fi settings that include space battles is that none of them are satisfying. They never seem to be able to capture the feel of battles in space.

Part of that might be because the space battles you see in most sci-fi movies and novels are nothing like what an actual real-life battle in space would look like.

"WWII dogfights in space" or "tall ship broadsides in space" are very exciting on the big screen, but are difficult to emulate on the gaming table, especially when you have rabid fan-boys breathing down your neck to made the space battles "realistic" at the very same time they want you to make them "cinematic"... Two completely conflicting concepts as far as space combat is concerned.
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 NFPA 70E, Article 330.4 (F):
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Knightcrawler

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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2006, 06:34:55 PM »
Quote from: Cyclotron
Part of that might be because the space battles you see in most sci-fi movies and novels are nothing like what an actual real-life battle in space would look like.

"WWII dogfights in space" or "tall ship broadsides in space" are very exciting on the big screen, but are difficult to emulate on the gaming table, especially when you have rabid fan-boys breathing down your neck to made the space battles "realistic" at the very same time they want you to make them "cinematic"... Two completely conflicting concepts as far as space combat is concerned.

I usually stomp on fan bois hard and send them sniffling and crying back to their mommies!
Knightcrawler

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Bagpuss

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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2006, 08:06:18 PM »
I like the 2300 AD space battle miniatures game which was sort of like sub-hunting almost. With sensors playing a vital roll, and x-ray lasers mounted on missiles as the primary weapon systems. Wouldn't be much fun in an RPG however.
 

Dacke

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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2006, 08:50:33 PM »
I like taking an abstract approach to space battles. The way I figure it, the characters have skills in things like Space Tactics and Piloting. Rather than have the players try to figure out how much thrust they have to use to avoid colliding with that asteroid or where to best position their ship to shoot at the pirates, that's what those skills are for.
 

Bagpuss

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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2006, 04:35:43 AM »
I agree I think that works better in an RPG, that's why I was disappointed when they updated the space combat system in D20 Star Wars.
 

Ottomsoh the Elderly

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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2006, 06:19:38 AM »
I liked the totally un-cinematic space battles in Frontier (you know, Elite 2). Look on your sensor the direction of the threat. Spot the tiny pixel of an enemy fighter 8 kms away. Accelerate toward it while aiming your laser beam the most precisely possible on it. Oops, now you're behind it. Turn the ship backward and continue to fire at it while decelerating yet still getting further away from it.

Of course, the most uncinematic way to end a fight was to use the missiles. The homing IA was very bad, so for the missiles to actually hit the target, you had to prevent the computer from simulating it in real time. So, launch missile, hit the stardreamer (time accelerator) to max speed (time x10000), and bam, the enemy's gone.

I loved the tricks one could do with the stardreamer. You've missed your planetary approach and will crush to your doom on that small moon? Never mind, accelerate toward it, then hit the stardreamer. With a bit of luck, the next frame will be computed, based on your trajectory and speed, with you on the other side of the obstacle. Teehee.
 

Varaj

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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2006, 09:47:07 AM »
Depending on tech level space combat would pretty boring to run.  David Webber does some great space combat in his books.  Fleet fires missles waits an hour for the results. :)
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Cyclotron

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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2006, 09:49:34 AM »
Quote from: Ottomsoh the Elderly
I liked the totally un-cinematic space battles in Frontier (you know, Elite 2). Look on your sensor the direction of the threat. Spot the tiny pixel of an enemy fighter 8 kms away. Accelerate toward it while aiming your laser beam the most precisely possible on it. Oops, now you're behind it. Turn the ship backward and continue to fire at it while decelerating yet still getting further away from it.

Of course, the most uncinematic way to end a fight was to use the missiles. The homing IA was very bad, so for the missiles to actually hit the target, you had to prevent the computer from simulating it in real time. So, launch missile, hit the stardreamer (time accelerator) to max speed (time x10000), and bam, the enemy's gone.

I loved the tricks one could do with the stardreamer. You've missed your planetary approach and will crush to your doom on that small moon? Never mind, accelerate toward it, then hit the stardreamer. With a bit of luck, the next frame will be computed, based on your trajectory and speed, with you on the other side of the obstacle. Teehee.

You can still download the game for free at Frontierverse.
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 NFPA 70E, Article 330.4 (F):
"Laser beams shall not be aimed at employees."

Ottomsoh the Elderly

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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2006, 11:01:37 AM »
I still have my Frontier floppies and my First Encounter CD (which includes another CD of Frontier, BTW). :)