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Author Topic: Feeling open minded.... Which "Other" Class fits in best with the Core 4?  (Read 487 times)

Jam The MF

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Ranger?  Bard?  Barbarian?  Druid?  Paladin?  Sorcerer?  Warlock?  Magus?
I spit on your pronouns!!!  If the world goes crazy, and I need to use the pages of RPG books to start fires for cooking and warmth; D&D 4th Edition will be the first to burn!!!

jmarso

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Ranger

Mishihari

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Ranger.  Each of the core 4 has a specialty role in the party:  fighter - physical combat, cleric - healer, thief - stealth, magic-user - magic.  Of your list the only one with a role entirely distinct from the core 4 is the ranger with a role of wilderness survival.  Of course for that to make sense, adventures must be written so that role is equally important with the others to a party's success, which is not the case in any D&D adventure I've seen.

Pat

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Henchman.

Opaopajr

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The Victim. It covers all the other NPCs -- and apparently is a much in demand class today!  ;D

I keed I keed!  8) j/k
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VisionStorm

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Bard

Cuz it's the only one that's not basically a direct variant of the others. And even then you could argue that its a type of Thief-Mage hybrid.

My view on classes is that not even the 4 are needed, cuz Cleric is just a magic user specialized in healing, with a bit of fighter thrown in it. So it should just be Warrior, Specialist ("Rogue"/Skill Monkey/Odd Talents) and Mystic. Then mystics get to pick their spell access a la carte, or something (maybe using Feats, which I know the OSR loves :P).

Chris24601

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Bard

Cuz it's the only one that's not basically a direct variant of the others. And even then you could argue that its a type of Thief-Mage hybrid.
I was about to post similar, but not that it’s not a direct variant of the others, but because; at least from 3e on; it’s settled into the role of “Jack-of-all-Stats.”

- Better weapons than everyone but the Fighter.
- Better skills than everyone but the Rogue.
- Healing magic, but not on par with the Cleric.
- Enchantment/Illusion magic, but not as good as a Wizard.

It also sets itself apart by its magic being Charisma-based and spontaneous/spells known vs. prepared; making its casting feel legitimately different from the other too (more akin to tricks they’ve picked up in their travels than something they’ve rigorously studied the principles of or devoted their life and faith to). They also have party buffing by their bardic music and being exposition device via bardic knowledge as some of its own shtick.

They also make a good choice for 5th member because they can support/fill-in when other members are missing or debilitating. Does the fighter need someone on his side/back to keep from getting flanked or to be a distraction while the rogue sets up a sneak attack? Bard is decent enough in combat to do that. Did the cleric just get dropped by damage? The bard has enough healing mojo to get the cleric back up so you don’t lose all their healing resources.

Basically, they don’t shine at any one thing, but by being decent at basically everything they’re as asset at supporting and filling in the gaps.

Also, if you allow a little creativity in terms of what constitutes a performance for bardic music (ex. oratory) they also work rather well as a stand-in for the 4E Warlord class (just pick your spells from the more subtle end of the pool and say they’re “advanced motivational/demotivational techniques” you learned while studying at the bardic College of War).

TL/DR; Bard, because they don’t step on any of the core four’s toes and are a Jack-of-All-Stats (master of none) with a few unique knacks of their own.

VisionStorm

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Bard

Cuz it's the only one that's not basically a direct variant of the others. And even then you could argue that its a type of Thief-Mage hybrid.
I was about to post similar, but not that it’s not a direct variant of the others, but because; at least from 3e on; it’s settled into the role of “Jack-of-all-Stats.”

- Better weapons than everyone but the Fighter.
- Better skills than everyone but the Rogue.
- Healing magic, but not on par with the Cleric.
- Enchantment/Illusion magic, but not as good as a Wizard.

It also sets itself apart by its magic being Charisma-based and spontaneous/spells known vs. prepared; making its casting feel legitimately different from the other too (more akin to tricks they’ve picked up in their travels than something they’ve rigorously studied the principles of or devoted their life and faith to). They also have party buffing by their bardic music and being exposition device via bardic knowledge as some of its own shtick.

They also make a good choice for 5th member because they can support/fill-in when other members are missing or debilitating. Does the fighter need someone on his side/back to keep from getting flanked or to be a distraction while the rogue sets up a sneak attack? Bard is decent enough in combat to do that. Did the cleric just get dropped by damage? The bard has enough healing mojo to get the cleric back up so you don’t lose all their healing resources.

Basically, they don’t shine at any one thing, but by being decent at basically everything they’re as asset at supporting and filling in the gaps.

Also, if you allow a little creativity in terms of what constitutes a performance for bardic music (ex. oratory) they also work rather well as a stand-in for the 4E Warlord class (just pick your spells from the more subtle end of the pool and say they’re “advanced motivational/demotivational techniques” you learned while studying at the bardic College of War).

TL/DR; Bard, because they don’t step on any of the core four’s toes and are a Jack-of-All-Stats (master of none) with a few unique knacks of their own.

Yeah, Bards cover a lot of stuff other classes don't quite manage to cover, while at the same time being a bit like every other class combined. So they can sorta cover gaps for certain roles in the group, and still provide an extra layer of party support even in a complete group that covers every other role.

It's pretty much the only specialized class that can sorta stand on its own. The rest are just variants of the 4 (3 IMO). A Barbarian is basically just a tough fighter. A Paladin is a pious fighter. Rangers are just fighters with tracking, light armor and crappy stealth. Druids are basically nature clerics (or Mystics IMO). A Sorcerer is literary just another word for Mage, etc.

Persimmon

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I'll say none, because I think the core 4 pretty much cover it.  Like others have said, the bard just kind of combines powers with a bit of lore mastery thrown in.  So it can fit, but the utility (as we recently found in our OSE campaign) is pretty situational/niche.  Likewise for most of the other classic subclasses, which is why they are subclasses.  They certainly add stuff and can be integral in the right context, but your typical published scenario, for example, is still going to presume the core 4, more or less. 

That being said, it can be fun and challenging to play with a group of PCs who don't fit that.  In one group we had the following PCs: Human paladin, human barbarian, half-elf druid, and a gnome illusionist/thief.  So no straight cleric or magic-user.  But we still covered the basic presumed skill sets. And we were all very experienced players who worked well together.

But I'm tempted to say monk because I just love them, as ridiculous and incongruous as they are with the other classes.  Though I never really understood why they have all those thief abilities.  Climbing walls and moving silently makes sense I suppose, but the rest?

Eric Diaz

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I'd say a leader (warlord-type). Affects morale of the troops, etc. Well, all PCs become leaders at level 9 or so, but maybe a low-level commander would fit. Think Captain America. But this could replace the cleric. Maybe Charisma-based (also makes me think of mountebank).

And maybe some kind of non-magical sage or loremaster.

Otherwise.... yeah, ranger is probably the best answer here.

Also:

Str = Fighter
Int = Mu
Wis = cleric
Dex = Thief
Cha = Leader
Con = Ranger

The Victim. It covers all the other NPCs -- and apparently is a much in demand class today!  ;D

I keed I keed!  8) j/k

Well, I do have a Hopeless class in my Dark Fantasy Basic... Inspired by Moldvay and Dark Souls
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 09:36:44 AM by Eric Diaz »
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Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Feeling open minded.... Which "Other" Class fits in best with the Core 4?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2022, 09:52:04 AM »
B-Ball Lord

You would be suprised how often a good dunk can get you out of a jam.

Slambo

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Re: Feeling open minded.... Which "Other" Class fits in best with the Core 4?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2022, 10:12:12 AM »
B-Ball Lord

You would be suprised how often a good dunk can get you out of a jam.

Ah yes the space jam / Chef Boyardee Presents Charles Barkley's Shut Up and Jam Gaiden: Chapter One of the Hoops Barkley Saga (yes thats an actual fan game and thats the full name)  class.

Mistwell

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Re: Feeling open minded.... Which "Other" Class fits in best with the Core 4?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2022, 01:07:21 PM »
Ranger?  Bard?  Barbarian?  Druid?  Paladin?  Sorcerer?  Warlock?  Magus?

I've always thought Ranger was the natural fit, but in terms of balancing power it's Bard.

Slambo

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Re: Feeling open minded.... Which "Other" Class fits in best with the Core 4?
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2022, 02:31:57 PM »
I kinda feel like the Huntsman from ASSH (or just Hyperborea now) would be a good fit for a barbarian/ranger sorta hybrid without magic. However i also kinda think anyone should be able to tame a pet. Which just gets you back to it being a fighter theif.

Wrath of God

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Re: Feeling open minded.... Which "Other" Class fits in best with the Core 4?
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2022, 03:48:18 AM »
Hard to say to me as I'm not OSR player, but I guess considering Thief is more narrow class there - Bard as jack would take it all.

Otherwise probably I'd keep core 4 but make like 4 combinations of combat/social/exploratory classes to combine into more specific modes.
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