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Author Topic: Fear the Boot forced to step down from ENNIES!  (Read 8503 times)

James McMurray

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Fear the Boot forced to step down from ENNIES!
« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2007, 10:28:57 AM »
Quote from: Settembrini
So it remains:
What was the message meant to be sent with the forced step-down?


It seems pretty obvious to this armchair analyst that the message is ":don't cheat in our awards."

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What were they trying to accomplish?


Likewise, it seems to bea way to enforce that whole "don't cheat" thing.

What part of Denise's straightforward statements has you confused?

Serious Paul

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Fear the Boot forced to step down from ENNIES!
« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2007, 10:43:38 AM »
Now it all makes sense Pooka is Micheal Morris. Now I understand a lot more. Hi Micheal, you're a twat!

fusangite

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Fear the Boot forced to step down from ENNIES!
« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2007, 10:52:39 AM »
I was a member of the judging panel but, not being a member of the board, I am not empowered to speak on behalf of the ENnies organization. However, I thought it might be useful to include the section of the Fear the Boot podcast that caused concern and prompted them to withdraw voluntarily:

   If you have have not voted yet or if there is a computer you have not voted from yet because it’s by IP. I will tell you guys this: I am a consultant and have access to many clients’ servers. I have voted from all of them. I’ll tell you right now this is what happens when you unleash nerds upon a voting contest… My brother who works for Microsoft says that they have a ton of internal IPs. He cycled through all of them; every single one of them has been used for an abuse vote… You’re gonna get us DQed. This is exactly what happens when you unleash this many nerds on a voting contest but, if you’re an honest person who has not voted for us yet, please go out to http://www.ennieawards.com.

I would like to commend Fear the Boot in choosing to withdraw honourably from the contest; and I look forward to seeing them in the running next year.
 

Serious Paul

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« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2007, 10:57:23 AM »
Quote from: GoOrange
At this point it's hard to know what to believe.


Especially since a member of the ENnies staff seems to take such joy in being disruptive, and apparently they (The ENnies people) are fine with him going out to troll other boards for reactions and pick fights with people.

I applaud you Denise, and your staff members for keeping such a brilliant programmer on your staff. I hope he's actually useful with computers, because he's obviously no good with people. (And given the state of everything I'm betting he's not up to snuff on his code slinging either.)

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« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2007, 10:59:52 AM »
Quote from: Serious Paul
Now it all makes sense Pooka is Micheal Morris. Now I understand a lot more. Hi Micheal, you're a twat!
I love you too. Did you bruise any brain cells figuring that out?

Sigmund

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« Reply #80 on: August 08, 2007, 11:00:20 AM »
Quote from: James McMurray
It seems pretty obvious to this armchair analyst that the message is ":don't cheat in our awards."



Likewise, it seems to bea way to enforce that whole "don't cheat" thing.

What part of Denise's straightforward statements has you confused?


While I don't disagree with ya, per se, I'm of the opinion (based on what I've seen so far) that this whole car wreck could have been handled a little bit better by the ENnie peeps. They're just coming across as defensive and/or condescending, when in the end they really have no need to defend themselves because they didn't do anything wrong. It's their awards, after all.

On the flip side, seems to me the FtB peeps pulled a Don Imus, and have been properly contrite, for the most part, since.

That being said, it's like this major pile-up has been happening in slow-mo with multiple camera angles and picture-in-picture replays in full speed. Well done all, I'm entertained ;)
- Chris Sigmund

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Quote from: John Morrow;418271
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« Reply #81 on: August 08, 2007, 11:05:45 AM »
Quote from: Serious Paul
Especially since a member of the ENnies staff seems to take such joy in being disruptive, and apparently they (The ENnies people) are fine with him going out to troll other boards for reactions and pick fights with people.


Am I trolling? Or am I asking questions outside your capacity to comprehend, interpret? Can you be introspective, or must you be always defensive?

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I applaud you Denise, and your staff members for keeping such a brilliant programmer on your staff. I hope he's actually useful with computers, because he's obviously no good with people. (And given the state of everything I'm betting he's not up to snuff on his code slinging either.)


As one without worth, how is one to judge worth? Why are you trying to insult me? Don't you understand that in order to give insult the writer must be held in esteem by the reader?

My whole world revolves around your every whim and command. Does that make sense?

Hackmaster

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« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2007, 11:12:04 AM »
Quote from: Caesar Slaad
The ENnies board of directors consists of Russel Morrissey (AKA "Morrus"), Denise Robinson, and Rich Miller. Only the board of directors is empowered to make a call as to who is disqualified and why.

Michael Morris is the programmer who handles all of the board programming and has assisted the awards in various other ways. He is not on the board of directors.


OK, this makes sense. Michael is not part of the board and the inference of Denise's statement is that he had nothing to do with the decision, and his comments should be ignored altogether.

He is, however, part of the organization, and as such the organization will be held accountable for his statements in the court of public opinion.
 

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Fear the Boot forced to step down from ENNIES!
« Reply #83 on: August 08, 2007, 11:12:57 AM »
Quote from: joewolz
My dick's real big too!


I dunno, that's a real small ruler.

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How can anyone be sure of anything?


:) You begin to understand grasshopper.

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I'm a Democrat because I'm sure they're mostly right, and others on here can be Republicans and be sure they're right.  You can't be sure of anything, on any kind of level, other than the fact that the self exists.


The Walrus and the Carpenter, having finished dining on the oysters, stopped to ponder the morality of their action. Then they belched.

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But on the subject of FtB joking, yes, I'm fucking sure because I'm sure.


Does it matter if they were joking? Does it change the fact they stated that they cheated - voting from home and from work? If you remove all else, does that fact justify asking them to withdraw?

Suppose you answer 'no' to that last one - what do you say to whoever finishes second and third when they point out the winner admitted to cheating? Which is more damaging to your reputation?

Sigmund

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« Reply #84 on: August 08, 2007, 11:33:18 AM »
Quote from: Pooka

Does it matter if they were joking? Does it change the fact they stated that they cheated - voting from home and from work? If you remove all else, does that fact justify asking them to withdraw?

Suppose you answer 'no' to that last one - what do you say to whoever finishes second and third when they point out the winner admitted to cheating? Which is more damaging to your reputation?

I think this is the real core of the issue here, and really the only reason I feel the ENnie folks were correct in their decision. Now, even if they (thye being the FtB peeps) truely didn't vote from home and work and were just joking about that as part of their satire, the fact that they put it out there would shade any victory in their category and might be cause for complaints by others down the road. Like it or not, agree with it or not, the ENnies folks were plopped right down between Scylla and Charybdis and any road they took out would have potentially caused a ruckus. They seem to have chosen the ruckus that leaves them treating the ENnies as a serious business (relatively speaking), that should be taken as such by others as well. I can't say I'da done any different myself.
- Chris Sigmund

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"I'd rather be a killer than a victim."

Quote from: John Morrow;418271
I role-play for the ride, not the destination.

Serious Paul

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« Reply #85 on: August 08, 2007, 11:42:32 AM »
So we're sure none of the other categories in the Ennies have "cheating" then? I mean as long as we're sure, right?

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« Reply #86 on: August 08, 2007, 11:50:48 AM »
Quote from: GoOrange
See, what really got myself and a lot of other people up in arms was  This Post by Michael Morris, which directly contradicts what you are telling us here.

Quote from: Michael Morris on the FtB forums
You are not being punished for revealing the weaknesses of the system. You are not being punished for cheating. You are being punished for holding the awards process in contempt, for encouraging cheating, for debasing and udevaluing both the awards and the process by which they are derived, and for calling into question the integrity of the awards.

At this point it's hard to know what to believe.

Why is it hard to know what to believe? Is it because the world is never as it seems at first glance? In life don't enemies sometimes turn out to be friends and friends to be enemies? Do you believe that speaking plainly never works? Do you believe people read what they want to read and hear what they want to hear and all too often they come away with just that information that upholds and confirms their prior prejudices and convictions? Does it make sense that I might as all good pooka do speak in riddles so that only those willing to reach beyond these all too human faults will understand, and those who are are unwilling walk away befuddled, confused and angry?

What of my statement above made when I'm not playing the trickster Pooka? Isn't it ironic to see that statement twisted far more thoroughly than the riddle-ridden language I use here? Didn't I state FtB was punished? Don't you think I chose that word carefully and used it very deliberately?  Punished. Didn't Denise say the actions of the board were for the cheating? Isn't punishment another thing entirely? Isn't it the result of the actions of the board, and not itself the action of the board? Aren't punishments in whatever form they take scaled not only to actions but to the consequences of the actions? Did I list just the actions or did I list the consequences? Think on it a moment. Think hard.  

Isn't cheating the same as "holding the awards process in contempt?" Isn't a consequence of not punishing cheating "encouraging cheating?" Isn't a consequence of cheating "debasing and devaluing both the awards and the process by which they are derived?" And doesn't cheating "call into question the integrity of the awards?" Aren't all of these consequences of the same single act - the same single act that prompted the board's action?

You all are gamers - certainly you've seen where Luke Skywalker tells ObiWan that "Ben, you'll find that many of the truths we cling to come from a certain point of view."  So don't you think when I wrote that I was speaking true to my point of view?  How can I speak to another?

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« Reply #87 on: August 08, 2007, 11:51:44 AM »
Quote from: Serious Paul
So we're sure none of the other categories in the Ennies have "cheating" then? I mean as long as we're sure, right?
You cannot comprehend what has been repeatedly put to you plainly, so how do you expect to successfully interpret anything I have to say?

James J Skach

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Fear the Boot forced to step down from ENNIES!
« Reply #88 on: August 08, 2007, 11:52:56 AM »
What a complete load of shit.
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Spartan2260

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Fear the Boot forced to step down from ENNIES!
« Reply #89 on: August 08, 2007, 11:53:58 AM »
Quote from: Denise


Finally, I'd like to say that the ENnie Awards staff, Board, and judges are all volunteers who put in hundreds of hours every year into the Awards. And while none of us expect a pat on the back, it would be nice to not be rewarded with a kick to the teeth as it were.

We strive to maintain a high standard at all times in all aspects, but sometimes an individual staffer may snap when attacked, or make statements that do not bear out the Board's policies. I apologize if anyone associated with the ENnies has stepped over the line of professionalism and offended or misled anyone in this (or any other matter), and assure you that actions are being taken to discipline offenders and prevent re-occurrences.

Thank you for your understanding. I welcome emails at denise@ennieawards.com if you wish to continue this.



QFT


I just have to respond to this. I'm a podcasting fan and a Fear The Boot fan. What I'm about to say is my opinion.

You people crossed a very fine line when you registered on the FtB forums and began insulting them ON THEIR OWN BOARDS!!! You might as well drove to Dan's house. Knocked on the door. Walk into the middle of the gaming group and begin throwing supportive arguments about why you were right for two hours (equivalent of 16 pages on a forum)!!!

Dan was just letting people vent. ON HIS BOARDS! Let them! Damn!

That was not your soapbox!

Respect?! Respect works both ways. You guys have no right to respect.

Now, you want to handle the matter privately. Too f'in late! You opened your traps. Deal with the consiquences!

Fear The Boot is dealing with the result of their statements.

Grow up. Do the same.