FATE should have been called Cliche. Because that's really all what players assign to their characters.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;963720FATE should have been called Cliche. Because that's really all what players assign to their characters.

Unlike D&D, which is so free of #Cliché that its character classes are entirely based on them :rolleyes:

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;963730Unlike D&D, which is so free of #Cliché that its character classes are entirely based on them :rolleyes:

Those are archetypes.

Has anyone tried to run Fate/Fudge with just two of their funky dice?  If so, how did it work out?  If not, can you explain why not?  (Math optional)

Quote from: CRKrueger;963733Those are archetypes.

One man's cliche is another's time tested classic, after all.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;963747Has anyone tried to run Fate/Fudge with just two of their funky dice?  If so, how did it work out?  If not, can you explain why not?  (Math optional)

Same problem as 4dF a +1 is a huge benefit enough to make a opposed roll a 'I win' moment.

http://anydice.com/program/bc0d

In addition to the issues of the 4dF and the significant impact of a +1 or +2 difference that this thread has brought up, in the one Fate game I ran, there was a strong tendency for a lot of the group to use their Create an Advantage skill uses to pile on a bunch of different situational aspects, then call in all the free invocations of that aspect at once to deliver crushing successes on whatever their task were. As soon as they discovered that tactic, it was their go to thing. It soured me on the system.

The one Fate game that I've played in that's been successful has largely accepted the difference that the +1 or +2 makes, and is basically running as a diceless game with just less granularity than you might find in Amber or Lords of Olympus.

Quote from: ArtemisAlpha;963772In addition to the issues of the 4dF and the significant impact of a +1 or +2 difference that this thread has brought up, in the one Fate game I ran, there was a strong tendency for a lot of the group to use their Create an Advantage skill uses to pile on a bunch of different situational aspects, then call in all the free invocations of that aspect at once to deliver crushing successes on whatever their task were. As soon as they discovered that tactic, it was their go to thing. It soured me on the system.

Why? If the group uses teamwork, the terrain and maneuvering to arrive at a position where they can deliver a killing blow, that is something I personally prefer to the boring "I hit it", "I hit it", "I hit it, too" approach I have seen in other games. Remember that the enemies can "destroy" aspects via Overcome, and can use create advantage themselves.

Quote from: Pyromancer;963774Why? If the group uses teamwork, the terrain and maneuvering to arrive at a position where they can deliver a killing blow, that is something I personally prefer to the boring "I hit it", "I hit it", "I hit it, too" approach I have seen in other games. Remember that the enemies can "destroy" aspects via Overcome, and can use create advantage themselves.

And a big boss type can surround himself minions that absorb stress for him. So the situation can be mix and matched to what the GM wants.

Quote from: Pyromancer;963774Why? If the group uses teamwork, the terrain and maneuvering to arrive at a position where they can deliver a killing blow, that is something I personally prefer to the boring "I hit it", "I hit it", "I hit it, too" approach I have seen in other games. Remember that the enemies can "destroy" aspects via Overcome, and can use create advantage themselves.

Once you get the hang of hte game, a lot of Fate fights end up being more about this type of positioning than ablating through the other group's hit points.

It's different, and can feel weird, I grant that.

Quote from: Dumarest;962732Honestly I can't even understand it. Maybe I'm old but it makes no sense to me. I need concrete definitions of what a character can do. For me, it utterly destroys any immersion if I have to think about "aspects" and I dislike mechanics like "fate points" except in very rare genres as they also suck me right out of the game world and back to the living room table. I just don't get it at all.

That's my reaction as well. Everything about it just confounds me, so I won't say I like it or hate it. I sure as hell don't want to play it.

Edit: not that I haven't tried!

I think FATE in and of itself  is not a bad system, once you downplay the storygame component of it.  The problem is that most (not all, but most) FATE games are designed by pretentious twats for pretentious twats.

I tried to like FATE and failed.  I really like the idea of character aspects as an open ended creative version of traits/boons/flaws.  I gave it a real shot, but FATE goes too far in trying to be innovative and different with all of the OOC mental gymnastics with scenes, zones, and tagging aspects of the environment - its lame.

One of my astute players labeled the game "+2" because you spend the whole game out of character juggling meta mechanics trying to get a +2.  He'd come into the club and say "hay, you wanna play +2?, I sure as hell don't."

I did run a FUDGE game with FATE aspects attached to characters and NPC only, and it was better, but not great.  I like the idea of FUDGE, as a rules light tool box, but it is still a pretty clunky system. Like estar said, 4df is too thickly grained. This can be easily fixed with d6-d6 like Anglare or Starblazers, or even with d8-d8 for slightly more variation, but it is still a fairly awkward mechanic. It would be better to add 2d6 or 2d8 vs a target number.  Its the same general principal and doesn't change the math, it's just more natural to roll dice and add the numbers.  Either way, blending FATE and FUDGE, is a lot of rules tinkering and work to get a playable rules-light traditional-style game when there are so many other options out there.  For the effort, I'd just as soon play TFT or BRP.

I do think there is a decent traditional and flexible skill-based rules engine lurking in the core of FATE/FUDGE.  It would be possible to strip all the narrative and gamey crap out of FATE, keep the aspects for characters, mary it to FUDGE, replace the fudge dice with something with a wider range, and then tweek the game towards a particular setting.   If someone would do that, I'd probably buy and try it.

The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.

Quote from: Madprofessor;963904I did run a FUDGE game with FATE aspects attached to characters and NPC only, and it was better, but not great.  I like the idea of FUDGE, as a rules light tool box, but it is still a pretty clunky system. Like estar said, 4df is too thickly grained. This can be easily fixed with d6-d6 like Anglare or Starblazers, or even with d8-d8 for slightly more variation, but it is still a fairly awkward mechanic. It would be better to add 2d6 or 2d8 vs a target number.

Good points, I shied away from d6-d6 is not being as elegant as 4dF but looking at the linked graphs that didn't look like to be a good way to go. d6-d6 has the same curve as 2d6 obviously and +1 in Traveller was nice but not a game changer.

http://anydice.com/program/bc52

Quote from: Madprofessor;963904Its the same general principal and doesn't change the math, it's just more natural to roll dice and add the numbers.

Probably why the group I play with regularly gravitated to the AGE system as it just as you described except 3d6+modifiers.