Quote from: colwebbsfmc;600269Settembrini

 Good points, all.

 In the perfect world where we plot out a Battletechy amalgam of "The Great Pendragon Campaign" these issues would certainly be explored as part of the multi-year narrative.  House Davion's "Training Battalions" were a concept Hanse came up with.  To keep drawing on the Pendragon analogy, the campaign would begin with Prince Ian and the war against the Combine, giving the players an opportunity to face the Draconis Combine in a war that would ideally span enough time to have an impact on the players and develop their loyaly to Prince Ian  then BLAM, Prince Ian is slain and young Hanse must take the throne...  After a few years of settling in, young Hanse starts playing with changing the status quo, and it becomes a question of loyalties...  I would change up the canon history here so the MechWarrior Brotherhood crisis could come to a head over Davion's commoner MechWarrior battalions causing a not-quite Civil War and a huge test of loyalties...

In my own campaign, the commoner Mechwarrior vs Landed nobles conflict was the root of the whole "treason" stuff in the ...what was it? Sarna March?
So while the treasonous individual (Hasek-Davion IIRC) might have had this, that or other reasons, the reason of him actually finding supporters was because of the abovmentioned conflict. The landed nobility knew their time was up or at least their power base challenged. Also note the miniscule gains vs. the Dracs in centuries of outproducing them...

Quote from: Settembrini;600872In my own campaign, the commoner Mechwarrior vs Landed nobles conflict was the root of the whole "treason" stuff in the ...what was it? Sarna March?
So while the treasonous individual (Hasek-Davion IIRC) might have had this, that or other reasons, the reason of him actually finding supporters was because of the abovmentioned conflict. The landed nobility knew their time was up or at least their power base challenged. Also note the miniscule gains vs. the Dracs in centuries of outproducing them...

That is a really good take on the social and political conflict within the setting, Sett!  Hasek-Davion was painted as a real threat to Hanse's rule and there has to be some reason why powerful people would support him against the Most Awesomest First Prince Evar.  I mean, a lot of the elements of canon surrounding Hanse Davion were designed to appeal to 20th Century American white middle-class teens and young men, so you get a lot of social equality vibe that would really rile an aristocracy up.  

Stackpole's depiction of Hanse and House Davion set the tone that made it the most popular House amongst players (it was presented in a light that would appeal to the game's target audience), so your insight helps to explain exactly why Hanse might not be universally loved in the actual setting.  It also makes the Federated Suns more interesting and nuanced to boot.

-TGA

Quote from: The Good Assyrian;600946Stackpole's depiction of Hanse and House Davion set the tone that made it the most popular House amongst players (it was presented in a light that would appeal to the game's target audience), so your insight helps to explain exactly why Hanse might not be universally loved in the actual setting.  It also makes the Federated Suns more interesting and nuanced to boot.
-TGA

Thanks for the praise! Especially coming from you.
Thing is, I read the House Books.
Stackpole might have skimmed them.
The 3025er setting as produced by FASA is much more subtle than the novels ever suggest. In fact, the relations from novels to sourcebook universe is like WWII:John Wayne movies.
In fact I only read the novels six years ago the first time up to the Clans-Trilogy to understand the Battletech fandom as it is so different from my view of the Universe, although all the elements are there in both. But twisted and reduced to weird allusions in one.

Remember me looking for Boy F. Petersen? Alongside Patrick Larking, a bona fide historian, he was the main driver for the House Books.

Quote from: Settembrini;600951Remember me looking for Boy F. Petersen? Alongside Patrick Larking, a bona fide historian, he was the main driver for the House Books.

He also wrote two of the best Shadowrun 1e books, Seattle Sourcebook and Sprawl Sites.

Quote from: Settembrini;600951Thanks for the praise! Especially coming from you.
Thing is, I read the House Books.
Stackpole might have skimmed them.
The 3025er setting as produced by FASA is much more subtle than the novels ever suggest. In fact, the relations from novels to sourcebook universe is like WWII:John Wayne movies.
In fact I only read the novels six years ago the first time up to the Clans-Trilogy to understand the Battletech fandom as it is so different from my view of the Universe, although all the elements are there in both. But twisted and reduced to weird allusions in one.

Remember me looking for Boy F. Petersen? Alongside Patrick Larking, a bona fide historian, he was the main driver for the House Books.

I suspect that our ideas of what made the original BattleTech setting interesting are very similar, Sett.  And we share that the direction that the game later took leaving us cold.  Fellow travellers left behind in the BattleTech fandom, so to speak.  I only read the first of Stackpole's books, and years after being introduced to the game and I share your assessment.  I actually think that the Gray Death series of novels by Bill Keith, although not perfect by any means, better reflected BattleTech as I saw it through the guiding stars of the original House books.

That is one of the reasons I like this idea.  I think that like-minded fans can and should reclaim that original setting for all of its coolness.  It certainly doesn't require a new game available commercially, in fact all it requires in the end is game masters and players sharing the vision.  But I will admit that I think that it would be neat to have a supported game that was based on the core ideas of 3025.

But since it s abundantly clear that Catalyst has no interest in 3025 BattleTech or the original vision of the game, any commercially-viable alternative would necessarily be removed from the BattleTech setting.  Would it retain enough flavor to appeal to 3025 players?  I don't know, but I would buy it.


-TGA

Great thread! I never got to actually play the Mechwarrior side of the franchise, just random battles for the pure joy of giant robots blowing each other up. I'm loving this discussion of the deeper nuances and possibilities of the setting though, keep it up

My Interpretation of the whole Marik-Civil-Wars complex is the following:

The setup of the Free Worlds League has a much weaker central power, and a much stronger regional power base. that is not only are there feudalistic centrifugal forces at play, but also nationalistic and statehood questions. Most importantly: mech factories in the control of reguional sub-governments. So that is a given. But the big, big thing that destabilized the Marik's power was the decision to redistribute holdings and disenfranchise the losing party of the civil war(s)! If you look at the Holy Roman empire, you will see that in medieval times feudal feuds, even bitter and big ones as with Henry the Lion
rarely saw disenfranchisments. Rather reconciliation based on christian-chivlaric ideas was the order of the day. You rebelled but now you submit tear-swollen and exchange the kiss of friendship with the emperor, your  recent enemy? Lose a castle here or a county there and then all is forgiven.
But once the Emperor when victorious, started to disenfranchise and redistribute, as via Wallenstein...whole Dukedoms! 30 Years it took and some say never stopped till 1945...