I have a hard time suspending my disbelief when it comes to SF technology.  I have enough of a scientific background to have a knee-jerk reaction to explanations about FTL, teleportation or whatever.  I'm always asking myself "well how does that work?" and I find myself laughing at the silliness of it all.  SF is always trying to plausibly explain things that don't work according what we know and understand, and it just comes off as BS.  Whereas fantasy just says: its magic, which by definition has no explanation and doesn't ask for one.

Madprofessor: exactly why I said sci fi pretends to be more realistic. I have less problem with Classic Star Trek and Star Wars than I do with TNG and after Star Trek because the former readily admits it isn't science but rather science flavored fantasy or adventure.

Quote from: Madprofessor;1011909I have a hard time suspending my disbelief when it comes to SF technology.  I have enough of a scientific background to have a knee-jerk reaction to explanations about FTL, teleportation or whatever.  I'm always asking myself "well how does that work?" and I find myself laughing at the silliness of it all.  SF is always trying to plausibly explain things that don't work according what we know and understand, and it just comes off as BS.  Whereas fantasy just says: its magic, which by definition has no explanation and doesn't ask for one.

Technology is an issue that fantasy rarely has to deal with, but it can quickly date futuristic settings.

We didn't get flying cars, but the internet, tablets and cell phones are so far beyond anything people imagined in the 1960s. Computers stick out like a sore thumb in almost every sci-fi setting more than 20 years old even when allowances are made for durability and redundancy. "Mother" in Alien takes up a whole room and has less capability than my sons Leapfrog toddler tablet.

Quote from: Robyo;1011884I tend to agree, as far as "hard science" games go. On the other hand, Shadowrun is like D&D, in that it's more "kitchen-sink," so less arguments over physics.

Last time I tried playing Shadowrun, one of the other Players (who works in IT) felt the need to regale us with all the reasons that the hacker technology in the setting would not function as depicted.
Same guy never felt the need to go on about how the magic in our Earthdawn campaign wasn't accurate...

From a specifically RPG-oriented perspective, the greatest difference to me is that fantasy has a clear common ground and sci-fi doesn't.

If you create your own fantasy campaign setting and each of your players has a basic grounding in at least one of Tolkien, Sword & Sorcery or classic D&D, they'll all get your setting after the first session. Why? Because all (or almost all) fantasy is fundamentally similar. Sure, the Hyborian Age doesn't have elves and dwarves and Middle Earth doesn't have so many evil scheming demon-summoning sorcerers, but you could still take any element from one and transplant it into the other without too much chafing.

Sci-fi is not like that. Individual sci-fi works can be so different that each only really works as stand-alone entity. If all your players know is that you'll be starting "a sci-fi campaign" and one brings a brash Han-Solo lookalike with expectations of Start Wars technology, one a scheming Reverend Mother-ripoff from Dune, the third a down-to-earth twentieth century scientist from an Arthur C. Clarke hard sci-fi novel and the fourth Robocop, they're going to make an unworkable mess both with each other and with your actual campaign setting.

I think you're onto something but a lot of pulp sf of the 50s did have a kind of assumed common background but by the 70s those stories were less fashionable. A lot of the great, even popular sf of the 60s and 70s were playing against that 50s common sf background assumptions. Even most of the writers of the 50s moved away from that common background in the 60s and 70s (Brunner, Pohl, even Heinlein).

But in fantasy there is Tolkien first and foremost, then everyone else. I can't see D&D taking off without LOTR to popularize it. The fantasy genre itself may have remained merely a niche of sf and fantastic writing in general without the Tolkien supernova. And I say that as someone who had a lukewarm reaction to LOTR.

Quote from: Premier;1012100From a specifically RPG-oriented perspective, the greatest difference to me is that fantasy has a clear common ground and sci-fi doesn't.

If you create your own fantasy campaign setting and each of your players has a basic grounding in at least one of Tolkien, Sword & Sorcery or classic D&D, they'll all get your setting after the first session. Why? Because all (or almost all) fantasy is fundamentally similar. Sure, the Hyborian Age doesn't have elves and dwarves and Middle Earth doesn't have so many evil scheming demon-summoning sorcerers, but you could still take any element from one and transplant it into the other without too much chafing.

Sci-fi is not like that. Individual sci-fi works can be so different that each only really works as stand-alone entity. If all your players know is that you'll be starting "a sci-fi campaign" and one brings a brash Han-Solo lookalike with expectations of Start Wars technology, one a scheming Reverend Mother-ripoff from Dune, the third a down-to-earth twentieth century scientist from an Arthur C. Clarke hard sci-fi novel and the fourth Robocop, they're going to make an unworkable mess both with each other and with your actual campaign setting.

I think this is spot on. In fantasy fiction and RPGs, all you have to do is mention an elf or dwarf and everyone knows what it is and what it looks like and how it should act. In scifi every alien is different so you don't get the common knowledge advantage.

Quote from: Thanos;1011698I'm sure there was a thread that was about the popularity of fantasy versus science fiction but for the life of me I can't find it. Can someone with stronger search fu find that for me or if there wasn't one can this be the start? Why is fantasy more popular in seemingly everything than science fiction?

In my classification, fantasy is about how we react to inner phenomena, like temptation to do the wrong thing for power, superstitious fear, and the like. It requires thinking about yourselves and your reactions, which we do in RPGs anyway:).
SF is about how the conditions we live in, when they change through technology, change us, and what new questions arise due to it. It requires thinking about the setting we're in and accepting its premises as possibly genuinely different from our world's. Some players totally suck at doing that, or just default to "their premises are wrong anyway, because they're not like our world's, and I won't allow myself be changed by them", which defeats the whole point;).
I suspect, without proof, that this is why Traveller uses a lifepath, in order to show how the PC's experiences were markedly different.

There's no other reason why one of the genres should be more popular than the other, AFAICT.

Quote from: Premier;1012100From a specifically RPG-oriented perspective, the greatest difference to me is that fantasy has a clear common ground and sci-fi doesn't.

I dunno. I think fantasy is much more diverse than that. The Twilight Zone, Gormenghast, superheroes, Wind In The Willows, a lot of horror stories, Hollywood musicals... IMO those are all 'fantasy', and except for musicals (AFAIK) have some presence as RPGs.

Quote from: Toadmaster;1012048Technology is an issue that fantasy rarely has to deal with, but it can quickly date futuristic settings.

We didn't get flying cars, but the internet, tablets and cell phones are so far beyond anything people imagined in the 1960s. Computers stick out like a sore thumb in almost every sci-fi setting more than 20 years old even when allowances are made for durability and redundancy. "Mother" in Alien takes up a whole room and has less capability than my sons Leapfrog toddler tablet.

This was one of the biggest stumbling blocks to my enjoyment of the Star Trek prequel Enterprise and the Alien prequel Covenant. in both cases technology had to do a retrograde to get from the prequel to the next chronological bit in the story. This is, in reality, because they were filmed decades apart and modern sensibilities demand a different look for something to be "futuristic" than was accepted when the originals were done. But it is a glaring inconsistency. The fact that our current technology in some areas is ahead of the "future" doesn't help either.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1011732I think there are several reasons Fantasy RPGs may attract more people but I can see the balance could shift. Here are the reasons I would consider:

I'm currently running two campaigns with the system I wrote: a fantasy campaign and a sci-fi campaign.

To us (my players and me), the biggest difference and what drives fantasy RPGs to the top is that the published fantasy modules (which, unlike the most vocal folks on this site, is what most groups out there use) are the types of modules that players and GMs want. While, sci-fi modules tend to have a smaller audience because of the type of adventures.

I spent a lot of time and money looking for sci-fi modules my group would like.

I can run BFRPG modules or older D&D modules (we're using the B series) and my players have fun, regardless of their plans. Same thing with DwD Studios' BareBones Fantasy modules. While, trying to use classic Traveller or some of the other sci-fi modules, I might as well write my own from scratch, in order to get something interesting.

The sci-fi modules seem more exploration based, while my players like dealing with intelligent and semi-intelligent dungeon denizens. I ended up taking BFRPG modules and changing them into "steampunk sci-fi", which seems like it will work for my players.

Quote from: Tod13;1012134I'm currently running two campaigns with the system I wrote: a fantasy campaign and a sci-fi campaign.

To us (my players and me), the biggest difference and what drives fantasy RPGs to the top is that the published fantasy modules (which, unlike the most vocal folks on this site, is what most groups out there use) are the types of modules that players and GMs want. While, sci-fi modules tend to have a smaller audience because of the type of adventures.

I spent a lot of time and money looking for sci-fi modules my group would like.

I can run BFRPG modules or older D&D modules (we're using the B series) and my players have fun, regardless of their plans. Same thing with DwD Studios' BareBones Fantasy modules. While, trying to use classic Traveller or some of the other sci-fi modules, I might as well write my own from scratch, in order to get something interesting.

The sci-fi modules seem more exploration based, while my players like dealing with intelligent and semi-intelligent dungeon denizens. I ended up taking BFRPG modules and changing them into "steampunk sci-fi", which seems like it will work for my players.

Or you can just take Preferred Edition Of Traveller, roll up a sophont species, and make reasonable conclusions stemming from their physiology. Then add a few customs that contradict them, and make up explanations for the above.

Then add a few holidays they observe. One of them should be soon. (Borrow one from ancient Indian or Chinese practices if you must).

Then have the players meet them during the exploration in one of the modules;). As a bonus, they might be talking a version of a language their computer can translate. Why? Well, who says they are natives of the planet, even if they're at a primitive level of development:)?

Work for a couple hours at most, I'd think. And you can have a series of adventures related to that species, especially if the reason the players are there is to carry out a job that would endanger their natural habitat:p!
That's how I get to 15 minutes preparation average: Change one element in a setting sharply, like throwing stone in a pond. Watch the waves flow from there across the setting. Let the players deal with said waves threatening to change things in ways they'd find unacceptable:D!

It seems to me like the same approach would work by adding an element in a module, too.


Besides, some Michael Brown guy has been writing mini-adventures for Cepheus Engine. Many of them seem to fit your criteria.
FSpace also seem to have a few worlds for Cepheus Engine, including Serkur and Feraerfon which seems it would fit well with your group;). Never bought them, but they say they include ideas to base adventures on. Don't know if it's enough for your tastes, but it's an option.

All of the above was brought to you by virtue of a search for stuff for Cepheus Engine;).

Quote from: AsenRG;1012150Or you can just take Preferred Edition Of Traveller, roll up a sophont species, and make reasonable conclusions stemming from their physiology. Then add a few customs that contradict them, and make up explanations for the above.

The comments were in regards to published modules, which is what I think drives a lot of the popularity of systems.

Quote from: AsenRG;1012150Besides, some Michael Brown guy has been writing mini-adventures for Cepheus Engine. Many of them seem to fit your criteria.
FSpace also seem to have a few worlds for Cepheus Engine, including Serkur and Feraerfon which seems it would fit well with your group;). Never bought them, but they say they include ideas to base adventures on. Don't know if it's enough for your tastes, but it's an option.

All of the above was brought to you by virtue of a search for stuff for Cepheus Engine;).

I want full-length modules, not mini-adventures. I sometimes use mini-adventures to add an area to an existing module. I've found Creation's Edge mini-adventures useful for this, and they have a full-size preview. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/152050/Peril-at-the-Pod-Auction-A-SciFi-RPG-MiniAdventure

Maybe once I'm done writing and testing my system I can play with modules.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;1011737Science Fiction is a subset of Fantasy, in a literary sense, and it's more technical aspects tend to attract a more specific type of fan. In gaming, the point that most gaming revolves around a single 400lb gorilla, as has been mentioned, does mean that even if a sci-fi game is successful, it's still going to only ever represent a fraction of the sales that D&D will get.

Yes and no it's kind of complicated my favorite group of robots took A stab at the idea and it's worth pointing out that fantasy ans sci-fi are very close so the have A natural tendency to overlap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syMa8uAsfN0

Quote from: Premier;1012100From a specifically RPG-oriented perspective, the greatest difference to me is that fantasy has a clear common ground and sci-fi doesn't.

If you create your own fantasy campaign setting and each of your players has a basic grounding in at least one of Tolkien, Sword & Sorcery or classic D&D, they'll all get your setting after the first session. Why? Because all (or almost all) fantasy is fundamentally similar. Sure, the Hyborian Age doesn't have elves and dwarves and Middle Earth doesn't have so many evil scheming demon-summoning sorcerers, but you could still take any element from one and transplant it into the other without too much chafing.

Sci-fi is not like that. Individual sci-fi works can be so different that each only really works as stand-alone entity. If all your players know is that you'll be starting "a sci-fi campaign" and one brings a brash Han-Solo lookalike with expectations of Start Wars technology, one a scheming Reverend Mother-ripoff from Dune, the third a down-to-earth twentieth century scientist from an Arthur C. Clarke hard sci-fi novel and the fourth Robocop, they're going to make an unworkable mess both with each other and with your actual campaign setting.

Actually I think you can simplify all of this down to one thing fantasy has A much lower buy in then sci-fi.

Quote from: Voros;1012102I think you're onto something but a lot of pulp sf of the 50s did have a kind of assumed common background but by the 70s those stories were less fashionable.

Good point. I think this is why TV and comic book SF generally works better for SF RPGs - it does use that common background grounded in pulp space opera that goes back to the Lensman series.

If not using that background, an SF RPG needs to define a different clear background, like Cyberpunk (eg Cyberpunk 2020, a game which annoyingly seeks to trademark a genre), or possibly Dune-style gothic space opera (eg Fading Suns, WH:40K).