Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM
Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths. Assuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

That's a leftist lie from the mouth of Chaos.  The only good orc is a dead orc.   They don't even make good slaves (like kobolds).  At the first opportunity an orc will rape and kill you (and not necessarily in that order). 

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 11:40:05 AM

Quote from: SHARK on April 17, 2021, 12:36:26 PM

Being "Evil" can just as well be shorthand for a half dozen ethnic, cultural, or religious differences that summed up comprise a people that you and your neighbors don't want living in your town, fucking your sons and daughters, or gaining power over your community and deciding that they don't approve of YOUR culture, and YOU need to change--or else.

So, there's lots of reasons when you get down to it about why people A may not want people B living near them at all--and eagerly attack and kill them at every opportunity.

So there's no real reason for A to be evil rather than B being evil other than which one of the neighbors you ask? This sounds like an argument against having objectively evil races.

Greetings!

No, not really. Having an Evil alignment simply means I don't have to write up some menu of how such a race or tribe is Evil, and why they deserve to be slaughtered en masse. They are EVIL. Let the dogs of war loose, and bring down the fire!

That keeps the game moving at a good pace and fun, instead of getting all tangled up in stupid debates on morality.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Thinking about it these are great for evil campaigns because I don't have to worry about convincing my armies the royal family deserves a gangrapin. Cuts out a lot of dicerolls.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: DocJones on April 18, 2021, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 17, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
I don't think anybody here has ever actually played the orc village massacre scene that commonly appears in leftist blog posts on the subject. That's clearly a misleading caricature.

As a player, I've often come across villages that were massacred by orcs.  That's why we hate them.  They don't blog about that.

Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths.

It does if all members of ethnic group X encountered by ethnic group Y have been mass murdering psychopaths. Or at least, it would make it a reasonable assumption, which could lead to disastrous results of you assume otherwise.

QuoteAssuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

We can only hope.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 18, 2021, 03:24:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: DocJones on April 18, 2021, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 17, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
I don't think anybody here has ever actually played the orc village massacre scene that commonly appears in leftist blog posts on the subject. That's clearly a misleading caricature.

As a player, I've often come across villages that were massacred by orcs.  That's why we hate them.  They don't blog about that.

Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths.

It does if all members of ethnic group X encountered by ethnic group Y have been mass murdering psychopaths. Or at least, it would make it a reasonable assumption, which could lead to disastrous results of you assume otherwise.

QuoteAssuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

We can only hope.

Only worthwhile if the targets are kender.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 18, 2021, 03:24:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: DocJones on April 18, 2021, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 17, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
I don't think anybody here has ever actually played the orc village massacre scene that commonly appears in leftist blog posts on the subject. That's clearly a misleading caricature.

As a player, I've often come across villages that were massacred by orcs.  That's why we hate them.  They don't blog about that.

Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths.

It does if all members of ethnic group X encountered by ethnic group Y have been mass murdering psychopaths. Or at least, it would make it a reasonable assumption, which could lead to disastrous results of you assume otherwise.

QuoteAssuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

We can only hope.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! Some of these intellectual, *moralizing* arguments seem so disconnected to me. It's like total ivory-tower garden delusion.

Imagine you living in a region, some village. For you entire life, for your father's entire life, for your grandfather's entire life--your area, the surrounding villages--have been raided by Orcs on a regular basis. The Orc warbands use your entire region as a supply of food, booty, and women to fuck and breed with. Yes, the Orcs typically capture people here and there, and roast them alive by bonfire and devour them in savage parties. Your sister, or your cousin, has given birth to half-Orc bastard offspring after being brutally raped. Your neighbors have suffered likewise. Your childhood friends, growing up with you--they all have shared similar experiences, just like yours.

Why should Orcs be treated with anything but extermination, fire, and wrath?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on April 18, 2021, 03:33:57 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 18, 2021, 03:24:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: DocJones on April 18, 2021, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 17, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
I don't think anybody here has ever actually played the orc village massacre scene that commonly appears in leftist blog posts on the subject. That's clearly a misleading caricature.

As a player, I've often come across villages that were massacred by orcs.  That's why we hate them.  They don't blog about that.

Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths.

It does if all members of ethnic group X encountered by ethnic group Y have been mass murdering psychopaths. Or at least, it would make it a reasonable assumption, which could lead to disastrous results of you assume otherwise.

QuoteAssuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

We can only hope.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! Some of these intellectual, *moralizing* arguments seem so disconnected to me. It's like total ivory-tower garden delusion.

Imagine you living in a region, some village. For you entire life, for your father's entire life, for your grandfather's entire life--your area, the surrounding villages--have been raided by Orcs on a regular basis. The Orc warbands use your entire region as a supply of food, booty, and women to fuck and breed with. Yes, the Orcs typically capture people here and there, and roast them alive by bonfire and devour them in savage parties. Your sister, or your cousin, has given birth to half-Orc bastard offspring after being brutally raped. Your neighbors have suffered likewise. Your childhood friends, growing up with you--they all have shared similar experiences, just like yours.

Why should Orcs be treated with anything but extermination, fire, and wrath?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Take your entire post and substitute "human" for "orc" and ask if it makes any difference.  Should humans be inherently evil?

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 03:36:56 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 18, 2021, 03:33:57 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 18, 2021, 03:24:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: DocJones on April 18, 2021, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 17, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
I don't think anybody here has ever actually played the orc village massacre scene that commonly appears in leftist blog posts on the subject. That's clearly a misleading caricature.

As a player, I've often come across villages that were massacred by orcs.  That's why we hate them.  They don't blog about that.

Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths.

It does if all members of ethnic group X encountered by ethnic group Y have been mass murdering psychopaths. Or at least, it would make it a reasonable assumption, which could lead to disastrous results of you assume otherwise.

QuoteAssuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

We can only hope.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! Some of these intellectual, *moralizing* arguments seem so disconnected to me. It's like total ivory-tower garden delusion.

Imagine you living in a region, some village. For you entire life, for your father's entire life, for your grandfather's entire life--your area, the surrounding villages--have been raided by Orcs on a regular basis. The Orc warbands use your entire region as a supply of food, booty, and women to fuck and breed with. Yes, the Orcs typically capture people here and there, and roast them alive by bonfire and devour them in savage parties. Your sister, or your cousin, has given birth to half-Orc bastard offspring after being brutally raped. Your neighbors have suffered likewise. Your childhood friends, growing up with you--they all have shared similar experiences, just like yours.

Why should Orcs be treated with anything but extermination, fire, and wrath?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Take your entire post and substitute "human" for "orc" and ask if it makes any difference.  Should humans be inherently evil?

Greetings!

Delenda est Carthago!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!

There is an interesting episode in our own real-world history. In the Far East, the Tangut Empire had existed for some 500 years when it came into contact with Ghengis Khan and the Mongolian Empire.

When Ghengis Khan was fighting a campaign against the Muslims of the Kwarasm Empire, and asked their friends of the Tangut Empire for help--the Tangut Empire betrayed the Mongols.

After the absolute destruction of the Kwarasm Empire, Ghengis Khan remembered the Tangut betrayal. The Mongol Horde was gathered, and in a few months, disaster fell upon the Tangut Empire like the wrath of Heaven. Every Tangut city was besieged, and annihilated. Most of the population were put to the sword. The young women were packed off in slave caravans to forever serve their Mongol masters. Tangut libraries and records and books were burned. Tangut temples were looted, and burned to the ground. The Tangut Emperor's family was publicly executed, along with the Tangut Emperor. Tangut Royal tombs, centuries old, were all looted. But not just looted--they were destroyed. Each was rooted up, burned, and scattered to the ashes of history.

The Tangut Empire was annihilated entirely from the face of the earth.

Never again would the Mongols worry about being betrayed by the Tangut.

The Tangut Empire and its people were so totally annihilated that there are scant records anywhere that they even existed--save for a few references within the Song Empire of China. That, and a few archeology sites--and what the Mongols themselves recorded within the Secret History of the Mongols is the only reason why we know of the Tangut Empire today.

That's the way things go in history. Some races and kingdoms survive, and some are annihilated.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 03:36:56 PM
Take your entire post and substitute "human" for "orc" and ask if it makes any difference.  Should humans be inherently evil?

Snidley Whiplash is inherently evil.

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 03:36:56 PM

Take your entire post and substitute "human" for "orc" and ask if it makes any difference.  Should humans be inherently evil?

That would imply Orcs are real or that in my fantasy world Orcs are the equal of humans.

Now please tell us, to which human ethnicity you equate Orcs to?

Whites

Quote from: This Guy on April 18, 2021, 04:24:16 PM
Whites

That seems to be the general consensus these days since they are the only race that is inherently evil.

Quote from: moonsweeper on April 18, 2021, 04:29:12 PM

Quote from: This Guy on April 18, 2021, 04:24:16 PM
Whites

That seems to be the general consensus these days since they are the only race that is inherently evil.

Winners do most of the raping and pillaging, therefore.

Before anyone brings up this bad game design opinion, they should learn to play the game first so that they understand the context of the Evil Race.