This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?  (Read 6906 times)

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« on: January 18, 2015, 12:20:16 AM »
So, we made characters yesterday, and all went very well.  Some of the players, however, did not feel entirely satisfied with the way character progression works.
They got that in original traveller there really wasn't any concept of experience points, or the like, but I was wondering out of curiosity if anyone had made, or read, some house rules that can address character advancement in play without going absolutely nuts on power-mongering?
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

estar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10065
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2015, 12:35:09 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;810338
So, we made characters yesterday, and all went very well.  Some of the players, however, did not feel entirely satisfied with the way character progression works.
They got that in original traveller there really wasn't any concept of experience points, or the like, but I was wondering out of curiosity if anyone had made, or read, some house rules that can address character advancement in play without going absolutely nuts on power-mongering?


The problem with Classic Traveller and it direct mechanical descendants is that a skill level is a significant modifier.

Quote
If a character has one or more level in a skill (Level 1, Level 2, and so on) then he is trained in that skill. Each rank represents several years of experience using that skill. A character with Level 2–3 in a skill is a skilled professional in that fi eld. A character with Medic 2 could be a doctor; a character with Medic 4 is a famous surgeon or specialist.



Mongoose Traveller is actually quite generous with this rule

Quote
To increase a skill, a character must train for a number of weeks equal to his current Skill Total plus the desired level of the skill. So, to advance from Pilot 2 to Pilot 3 with a current Skill Total of 3 would take (three, plus three) six weeks. A character may only train one skill in a given week.


The way I personally dealt with it is to count much of the time in jump as training time. If the player wants to train a new skill each week in jump counts as a half week of training.

But ultimate thing to remember is that Traveller characters primarily advance within the setting. Paying off the ship, getting better merc contracts, finding a bigger gun,  advancing to a higher noble title, etc.

estar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10065
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2015, 12:54:48 AM »
I read over MegaTraveller and it has a system for advancing skills during play. I will distill it so you don't have to buy it.

When you succeed on a skill roll you record as a tally and the in-game date. You can have two tallies per skill per year recorded or one every six months.

For a new skill this means the players has to be a successful on default roll (I think it is at -3).

When the player wants to advance or learn the new skill. He need to roll a 15 or higher on 2d6.

+ (number of tallies for that skill)
+0 for Int 0 to 4
+1 for Int 5 to 9
+2 for Int 10 to 14
+3 for Int 15 to 19

Failure doesn't reduce the tally. Success will increase the skill to 1 (or to 0 if it is a new skill) and set the tally to 0.

The same system is used for raising characteristics well.

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18318
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2015, 01:45:07 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;810338
So, we made characters yesterday, and all went very well.  Some of the players, however, did not feel entirely satisfied with the way character progression works.
They got that in original traveller there really wasn't any concept of experience points, or the like, but I was wondering out of curiosity if anyone had made, or read, some house rules that can address character advancement in play without going absolutely nuts on power-mongering?


Personally, I'd avoid an experience system because it changes the tone of the game into one much more conducive to reckless behavior and all versions of Traveller have really harsh consequences for that, and rewards taking calculated risks instead.  But if you have to have one because the Players demand it, try this below:

Reward 1 xp per session. Maybe 2 if they have done something extremely spectacular.

 Gaining a 0 level skill costs 5 xp (within the limitations mentioned above).

 Increasing an existing skill costs 5 x the desired skill level.
"Meh."

no one important

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • n
  • Posts: 73
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2015, 02:38:18 AM »
The Mongoose Traveller version of Judge Dredd (which I think has the edge on the classic Games Workshop version and is miles ahead of the D20 version, mainly because the D20 version wasn't lethal enough, but I digress) has a section "Improving By Experience" (pp. 47-48).

Basically, for every four years of game time, you get four points to spend on skills, Talents and Special Techniques, or to increase characteristics (basically another four-year Term).

(Character generation includes a specific term for the Hot Dog Run and a survival test for Full Eagle Day, which if you fail means (11 out of 12) that your character doesn't become a judge.  It's not too hard to survive, but there's still a mandatory roll to see if your character becomes unplayable at the very end of generation.  Classic Traveller, and totally appropriate for JD.)
Not as dumb as I look, sound, or best testing indicates.  Awful close, though.

Phillip
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3990
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2015, 05:43:51 PM »
Remember how close 2d is to the 1d spread: 5 pips is the difference between 1/6 chance of success and 5/6 (or 1 and 21 chances in 36).

How long should it take to become even an ordinary M.D., then on top of that one of the Galaxy's most skilled surgeons? Is this different for player-characters?

How long do you want to allow for characters to be played without "maxing out"?
And we are here as on a darkling plain  ~ Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, ~ Where ignorant armies clash by night.

Shawn Driscoll

  • Role-Play Purist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2928
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2015, 11:24:45 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;810338
So, we made characters yesterday, and all went very well.  Some of the players, however, did not feel entirely satisfied with the way character progression works.
They got that in original traveller there really wasn't any concept of experience points, or the like, but I was wondering out of curiosity if anyone had made, or read, some house rules that can address character advancement in play without going absolutely nuts on power-mongering?

Remind them again how Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek work. They are trying to play Star Wars (sci-fi D&D).

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 03:22:30 AM »
Hmm, ok. Yeah, I appreciate the complexity of how skill advancement would be difficult to do without the game getting overpowered very quickly.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

golan2072

  • Resident Agama
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 230
    • http://spacecockroach.blogspot.com/
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 06:41:55 AM »
Mongoose Traveller is very generous with skills compared to Classic Traveller - you can get quite a lot of them during character generation. Beyond that, adding too many "pluses" to your 2d6 roll is not a very good thing. The easiest way to deal with experience in Traveller is to give the characters a few skills (1 in CT, more in MGT) per 4-year "term" of gameplay to match the rate at which your character gains skills during character generation, but even then, keep in mind the old limit of total skill levels to INT+EDU.

Also each skill point MATTERS. This isn't D&D 3.5E where a "+1" is 5% on a linear 1d20 roll - in Traveller a skill of 1 is very influential on gameplay and a skill of 3 is very powerful. A skill of 1 is a major employable skill - with Medic-1, for example, you can find a job as a medic aboard a starship. A skill of 2-3 is a proper professional skill level. How many employable skills, let alone proper professions, can a person have at once, especially with average INT and EDU? Not too many.

Your average starting MGT character is not the equivalent of a level 1 D&D character, but rather of, say, level 6-12. The character is in his or her prime and is a skilled veteran. There is not much room, or need, for much skill development beyond that.

So how to handle character development other than above-mentioned 1-skill-per-4-years? Let them earn contacts, amass wealth, gain political power, advance in SOC, pay off their ship's loan, pimp up their ride, buy additional ships, establish a trading company/criminal gang/mercenary band and so on. In short - advance in the game universe by their actions.
We are but a tiny candle flickering against the darkness of our times.

Stellagama Publishing - Visit our Blog, Den of the Lizard King

JeremyR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1778
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 11:02:54 PM »
Mongoose Traveller really isn't any worse than CT with the splatbooks - Mercenary, High Guard, and so forth, which gave out tons more skills than basic Traveller.

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2015, 06:44:45 PM »
It gives me a lot to think about.  I agree with the points here; however, if my players just find the lack of advancement too alien for them to handle, and given that this is not meant to be a long-term campaign, I think I'll probably be coming up with some kind of experience system, however slow-moving, to mollify them.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Shawn Driscoll

  • Role-Play Purist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2928
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2015, 07:30:32 PM »
I just do one-shots if my players can't think outside of D&D.

crkrueger

  • Hulk in the Vineyard
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12559
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2015, 01:33:44 AM »
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;811643
I just do one-shots if my players can't think outside of D&D.

Eh, getting better by doing isn't actually a D&D trope. :rolleyes:

If anything, the "already got my 20+ in, retiring at 40-50 to start my second career and I'm unlikely to ever learn anything new for the rest of my life even though I'm mainlining Anagathics" trope is pretty unique to Traveller.

Hell even the senior center crowd has "Continuing Education". :D

Quote from: RPGPundit;811631
It gives me a lot to think about.  I agree with the points here; however, if my players just find the lack of advancement too alien for them to handle, and given that this is not meant to be a long-term campaign, I think I'll probably be coming up with some kind of experience system, however slow-moving, to mollify them.
If you're going to introduce a "Post-CharGen Term" use diminishing returns.  That will organically lead to proper emulation of what would happen, ie. characters picking up new skills outside their old occupation.  Combine that with spending experience for a chance to gain, where they're buying Experience Rolls not Skill Levels and you should have the sense of "I'm actually learning something new." combined with slow advancement.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 01:37:12 AM by CRKrueger »
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery's thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Shawn Driscoll

  • Role-Play Purist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2928
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2015, 02:47:39 AM »
Quote from: CRKrueger;811706
Eh, getting better by doing isn't actually a D&D trope. :rolleyes:

If anything, the "already got my 20+ in, retiring at 40-50 to start my second career and I'm unlikely to ever learn anything new for the rest of my life even though I'm mainlining Anagathics" trope is pretty unique to Traveller.

Hell even the senior center crowd has "Continuing Education". :D
D&D has XP. Mongoose Traveller does not. No comparison. As I said before, Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica characters are not Star Wars characters.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 02:51:35 AM by Shawn Driscoll »

jibbajibba

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9098
Experience Mechanics for Mongoose Traveller?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2015, 03:49:36 AM »
Get them to tally sucessful rolls for a skill under stress.

For every 12 tally points they can either roll to increase a skill or store a +1 against a future roll.
To increase a skill they roll 2d6 with a target of 11 + their current skill level using stored bonuses. Any stored points are lost regardless of the result.

Or they can hire a guy (or use a guy in their team or an AI or whatever) with instruction and the skill and then they make a check every Day of study vs standard target with the instructors bonus. each success counts as a tally just like skill under stress.

The smart party will get some training AI packages and spend jump time trying to amass tallies but they will also save their tallies to make sure they succeed in their roll so probably amassing a +5 bonus before making a check. So skills will increase very slowly but the collection of tallies will "feel" like experience.

Of course the really smart players will steal a bunch of cash, head to a tech 15 world that speciailsed in Wet tech and get a memory splice with an entire academic, military and scientific skill portfolio. Why learn when you can upgrade ....
No longer living in Singapore
Method Actor-92% :Tactician-75% :Storyteller-67%:
Specialist-67% :Power Gamer-42% :Butt-Kicker-33% :
Casual Gamer-8%


GAMERS Profile
Jibbajibba
9AA788 -- Age 45 -- Academia 1 term, civilian 4 terms -- $15,000

Cult&Hist-1 (Anthropology); Computing-1; Admin-1; Research-1;
Diplomacy-1; Speech-2; Writing-1; Deceit-1;
Brawl-1 (martial Arts); Wrestling-1; Edged-1;