"Excellence in Gaming"... LOL

LouProsperi · June 26, 2023, 08:04:01 PM

Edited. I'm clearly not a good fit for discussions on this site. I bow to your collective and superior wisdom.

The Rearranger · June 26, 2023, 08:13:08 PM

They'd have to be on the committee and vote for themselves first.

Spinachcat · June 26, 2023, 08:14:01 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 26, 2023, 02:18:08 AM
Maybe we need to create our own award:

I give you The Magnificent Award from Gamers for Authors.

Genius.

This must be a thing.

GeekyBugle · June 26, 2023, 08:25:53 PM

Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 08:04:01 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 26, 2023, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 07:01:32 PM
Tell us you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees

Absolutely... I weep deeply for not having the 'recognition' and I'm totally 'jealous' too!!

Oh, won't someone please give me an award from these whoeverthefucks??

I'm willing to bet that if you or Pundit were nominated for this award you'd be far less critical.

And if you bothered to look at the names of the committee members you'd realize that being recognized by people with their experience and credentials means you're doing something right.

Lou Prosperi

As Rippa (Of Rippaverse fame) uses to say:

"I don't care about the recognition of broke ass weirdoes, I care about my consumers and my bank account" (I'm paraphrasing)

Rippa has made 3.5 million on his first GN and is on his way to repeat the feat on the second one, without the recognition of the mainstream and no coverage from the comic book press.

Pundit lives comfortably from his RPGs and related products, how many of those on the comitee or nominee list can say the same?

Coyote & Crow dude IS broke after over 1 million KS. I'm willing to bet the same is true for the rest.

Spinachcat · June 26, 2023, 08:27:28 PM

Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 08:04:01 PMAnd if you bothered to look at the names of the committee members you'd realize that being recognized by people with their experience and credentials means you're doing something right.

I saw the names. Unimpressed. Their experience is mostly writing crap I wouldn't buy or play.

If you want to know if a game is good, look at two things - Sales and Actual Play. Good games sell (beyond their initial kickstarter) and good games get played and not left on the shelf.

Wanna see the best games of 2022? Look at convention schedules and see which are being run by fans, not the author.

Rob Necronomicon · June 26, 2023, 08:29:17 PM

Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 08:04:01 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 26, 2023, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 07:01:32 PM
Tell us you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees

Absolutely... I weep deeply for not having the 'recognition' and I'm totally 'jealous' too!!

Oh, won't someone please give me an award from these whoeverthefucks??

I'm willing to bet that if you or Pundit were nominated for this award you'd be far less critical.

And if you bothered to look at the names of the committee members you'd realize that being recognized by people with their experience and credentials means you're doing something right.

Lou Prosperi

Whataboutisim. Pundit isn't up for an award (but at least he's sold a decent amount of stuff and has the receipts to prove it). Not sure why you're trying to bring this up though, and I'd like to see you prove that too! lol, I'll wait.

Their credentials? The only one I recognize is Ken Hite (and he's talented to be fair). The rest are whoeverthefucks as far as I'm concerned. And I wouldn't buy anything from any of the awardees because I think their products are a pile of sheeeet (YMMV).

I also don't recognize this or any RPG award. Except for the one on this site, FTW!

Theory of Games · June 26, 2023, 08:55:12 PM

Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 26, 2023, 07:25:33 PM
Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 07:01:32 PM
Tell us you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees will get without saying you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees will get.

It's not an award for game design, and it's not an award based on popularity or sales. This award was created as reaction to the other awards where the winners are based on popularity. The members of the committee (those who who select the nominees and pick the winner) are all game industry professionals with extensive experience and credentials.

For those who care to look, the process for how the nominees and winner are selected is here:

https://www.dianajonesaward.org/nominations-deadlines/

Lou Prosperi

So it IS about virtue signaling and not about the quality, importance or popularity of the nominees.

Thanks for participating.

It's entirely about the quality and importance of the nominees. The members of the committee look for products, people, and concepts that they feel represent excellence in gaming. Does that mean it's subjective? To a point, but that's why the initial set of nominations are voted on by the rest of the committee before the final set of nominees is selected. You assume that the committee members lack integrity and would only submit nominations for purposes of virtue signaling, but you have no evidence of that whatsoever.

Lou Prosperi

LOL! This dude's feelings are hurt because people crapped all over his beloved Participation award

It's the stupidest award EVER! Why? Because they give it out "just because"

From Wikipedia:

QuoteThe award is unusual in two ways: first, it is not an award for a specific class of thing, but can be awarded to a person, product, publication, company, organization, event or trend – anything related to gaming; second, it does not count popularity or commercial success as a sign of "excellence"

HM. Well, let's look at the definition of the noun, "award":

Quotea prize or other mark of recognition given in honor of an achievement.

What about "excellence"?

Quotethe quality of being outstanding or extremely good.

So the "Indie" Diana (Indiana) Jones "award" isn't even a fkn award. What's even better? The original trophy contained the word "NAZI™" in it - how very appropriate since they're Socialists

jhkim · June 27, 2023, 01:34:26 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat on June 26, 2023, 08:27:28 PM
If you want to know if a game is good, look at two things - Sales and Actual Play. Good games sell (beyond their initial kickstarter) and good games get played and not left on the shelf.

Wanna see the best games of 2022? Look at convention schedules and see which are being run by fans, not the author.

That's popularity. By this measure, D&D 5E is by far the best game.

I agree that popularity shows something - but it's not everything. There are a lot of games that I love that never get run at conventions, say, unless I run them. That said, I actually bought zero new RPG systems in 2022, so I don't have an opinion on what the best new games are.

What I'd love to see is what posters picks are for what they think the best new games of 2022 are. I've stopped running the Indie RPG Awards, and I haven't played new systems in a while - but I'm still curious.

S'mon · June 27, 2023, 01:50:25 AM

It's interesting looking at the previous winners and how it transitioned to a fully Woke award. From Wikipedia:

2001: Peter Adkison, founder of Wizards of the Coast.
2002: awarded jointly to Ron Edwards and his game Sorcerer.
2003: awarded jointly to Jordan Weisman, a founder of FASA Corporation and WizKids, and to Nobilis second edition.
2004: My Life with Master by Paul Czege.
2005: Ticket to Ride, the board game by Alan Moon, published by Days of Wonder.
2006: Irish Game Convention Charity Auctions, at Gaelcon and Warpcon, for their generosity.
2007: The Great Pendragon Campaign, by Greg Stafford, a supplement for the Pendragon role-playing game (published by White Wolf, Inc.).
2008: awarded jointly to Grey Ranks by Jason Morningstar, and to Wolfgang Baur and his Open Design business model.
2009: Dominion, a card game by Donald X. Vaccarino (published by Rio Grande Games)
2010: Boardgamegeek.com, a website edited by Scott Alden and Derk Solko.[11]
2011: Fiasco, a roleplaying game by Jason Morningstar.[12]
2012: Nordic Larp, a book about the LARP scene in the Nordic countries, edited by Jaakko Stenros and Markus Montola.[13]
2013: Tabletop, a web series where various celebrities join Wil Wheaton in playing board games.[14]
2014: Hillfolk an RPG by Robin Laws.[15]
2015: The Guide to Glorantha by Greg Stafford, Sandy Petersen and Jeff Richard, published by Moon Design Publications. A large two volume sourcebook for Stafford's fantasy world of Glorantha.
2016: Eric Lang, game designer
2017: Gen Con, the game convention where the Diana Jones Award is presented
2018: Actual Play, the "movement within hobby games in which people record and broadcast their game sessions — particularly campaigns of tabletop roleplaying games — over the internet"[16]
2019: Star Crossed, a role-playing game by Alex Roberts, published by Bully Pulpit Games[17]
2020: Black Excellence in Gaming, awarded to more than two dozen black professionals including Omari Akil, Maurice Broaddus, Allie Bustion, Tanya DePass, Brandon Dixon, Julia B. Ellingboe, Jerry Grayson, Shareef Jackson, Cliff "CJ" Jones, Eric Lang, Eloy Lasanta, Rich Lescouflair, Brandon O'Brien, Cody Pondsmith, Mike Pondsmith, Marcus Ross and Cara Michele Ryan, Laura Simpson, Chris Spivey, Bryan Tillman, Allen Turner, Aaron Trammell, Jabari Weathers, Travis Williams, and Camdon Wright.[18][19]
2021: NIBCARD Games, "A strong and original voice in publishing, creating a community of new makers and players across Africa and setting an example to the rest of the world of how to use games to make a difference."[20]
2022: Ajit George, for his activism in advocating for a more representative and diverse hobby games industry.[21]

Looking at the website descriptions, 2001-18 all seem to be about gaming. The 2019 award seems marginal, it looks like it was primarily about promoting a LGBTQI game rather than eg design excellence, but 2020 is a clear inflection point where it becomes explicitly a Woke award. If I were Mike Pondsmith I'd have felt pretty patronised to be given a pat on the head for my 'black excellence in gaming' along with a bunch of relative nobodies!

BTW I had always assumed it was named after fantasy author Diana Jones, the Wikipedia article disabused me:

The Diana Jones trophy was originally created as a keepsake in the UK offices of TSR in the mid 1980s to commemorate the ending of their license to publish The Adventures of Indiana Jones Role-Playing Game.[5] The trophy itself was a lucite pyramid containing the burnt remains of the last unsold copy of the game; all that was legible of the title was "diana Jones".[5] (There is no relation of the award with fantasy author Diana Wynne Jones.) The trophy was "liberated" and eventually ended up with the Diana Jones committee.[6] The destruction of "one of the least-loved and critically savaged games of all time" was seen an appropriate symbol for an award for excellence in gaming.[2][7] The trophy also contains a counter that reads "Nazi™" from the game.[8]

Ghostmaker · June 27, 2023, 08:05:35 AM

Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 26, 2023, 07:25:33 PM
Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 07:01:32 PM
Tell us you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees will get without saying you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees will get.

It's not an award for game design, and it's not an award based on popularity or sales. This award was created as reaction to the other awards where the winners are based on popularity. The members of the committee (those who who select the nominees and pick the winner) are all game industry professionals with extensive experience and credentials.

For those who care to look, the process for how the nominees and winner are selected is here:

https://www.dianajonesaward.org/nominations-deadlines/

Lou Prosperi

So it IS about virtue signaling and not about the quality, importance or popularity of the nominees.

Thanks for participating.

It's entirely about the quality and importance of the nominees. The members of the committee look for products, people, and concepts that they feel represent excellence in gaming. Does that mean it's subjective? To a point, but that's why the initial set of nominations are voted on by the rest of the committee before the final set of nominees is selected. You assume that the committee members lack integrity and would only submit nominations for purposes of virtue signaling, but you have no evidence of that whatsoever.

Lou Prosperi

You're high.

Codega probably deserves it for her role in bludgeoning Hasbro and WotC. But putting Radiant Citadel on there tells me this isn't about excellence at all. A bland, uninspired, current-day Sigil knockoff gets a nomination? Sure Jan.

Rob Necronomicon · June 27, 2023, 09:17:59 AM

All the candidates are 'suspiciously diverse'. But what do I know about big awards?

THE_Leopold · June 27, 2023, 09:36:05 AM

I see we've reached the JD Powers level of awards in the gaming community.

I · June 27, 2023, 09:44:03 AM

Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 08:01:27 PM

It's entirely about the quality and importance of the nominees. The members of the committee look for products, people, and concepts that they feel represent excellence in gaming.

Uh huh. Also, war is peace, freedom is slavery, hot is cold, and wet is dry.

RPGPundit · June 27, 2023, 06:47:36 PM

Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 07:01:32 PM
Tell us you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees will get without saying you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees will get.

It's not an award for game design, and it's not an award based on popularity or sales. This award was created as reaction to the other awards where the winners are based on popularity. The members of the committee (those who who select the nominees and pick the winner) are all game industry professionals with extensive experience and credentials.

For those who care to look, the process for how the nominees and winner are selected is here:

https://www.dianajonesaward.org/nominations-deadlines/

Lou Prosperi

Yes, exactly as I said, a tiny group of nepotistic insiders virtue signalling. Its the Culture War disguised as a gaming award.

RPGPundit · June 27, 2023, 06:52:00 PM

Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 26, 2023, 07:25:33 PM
Quote from: LouProsperi on June 26, 2023, 07:01:32 PM
Tell us you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees will get without saying you don't understand the point of this award and that your jealous of the recognition the nominees will get.

It's not an award for game design, and it's not an award based on popularity or sales. This award was created as reaction to the other awards where the winners are based on popularity. The members of the committee (those who who select the nominees and pick the winner) are all game industry professionals with extensive experience and credentials.

For those who care to look, the process for how the nominees and winner are selected is here:

https://www.dianajonesaward.org/nominations-deadlines/

Lou Prosperi

So it IS about virtue signaling and not about the quality, importance or popularity of the nominees.

Thanks for participating.

It's entirely about the quality and importance of the nominees. The members of the committee look for products, people, and concepts that they feel represent excellence in gaming. Does that mean it's subjective? To a point, but that's why the initial set of nominations are voted on by the rest of the committee before the final set of nominees is selected. You assume that the committee members lack integrity and would only submit nominations for purposes of virtue signaling, but you have no evidence of that whatsoever.

Lou Prosperi

In what conceivable way does Radiant Citadel "represent excellence in gaming"? What about it's design, its game elements, anything? There's literally nothing about it that's excellent, EXCEPT if you consider "no white people hired" to be excellence.

Likewise, what's excellent about a leftist blogger turned game "journalist" ripping off stuff happening on twitter and pretending she/her was the first reporter about the misconduct of a megacorporation she usually loves for their fascist wokeness?