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Author Topic: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes  (Read 2663 times)

MeganovaStella

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Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« on: July 02, 2022, 07:34:41 PM »
Exalted's setting, Creation, is really fucking good. Really, really good. But the system sucks ass!

So, I ask a question. What if...Exalted's setting used your favorite system? Would it be better to play? Worse? Do tell!

bromides

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2022, 08:12:56 PM »
The game has huge dice pools and a lot of counting.

Any workable Supers system would be fine. You'd need to differentiate between the castes because of the differing power levels, but that's about it. As long as you can throw balance out of the window, then that's fine. I'm partial to PbtA for supers gaming, but as long as your system can handle supers, then that's all that matters.

A lot of systems wouldn't be good for Exalted. Anything that requires escalating dice pools is immediately out because Exalted already does that, and it's horrible that way. Now, if the dice escalate (like Free League's Twilight 2000 as compared to other Year Zero Engine games), then that is better than the numbers of dice going up.

Any game with too many talents to count (many flavors of D&D) also would be bad because it just becomes splatbook/build city... a nightmare for GMs.
The effects should be driven by players instead of some obscure definition in a splatbook.

It just reads as an un-usable book. I know rpg.net got crazy about it for a while, but it was a mess in my opinion.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2022, 08:28:14 PM »
Godbound Deluxe has some of the splats with serial numbers filed off. You could also replicate Scion with it too, I guess. In fact, the Words and Gifts system could replicate WoD too.

Words is basically a syntactic magic system similar to Ars Magica, but with freeform Words. Gifts are specific individual effects, a subset of Words flexibility, but are easier to use than Words.

MeganovaStella

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2022, 10:30:40 PM »
The game has huge dice pools and a lot of counting.

Any workable Supers system would be fine. You'd need to differentiate between the castes because of the differing power levels, but that's about it. As long as you can throw balance out of the window, then that's fine. I'm partial to PbtA for supers gaming, but as long as your system can handle supers, then that's all that matters.

A lot of systems wouldn't be good for Exalted. Anything that requires escalating dice pools is immediately out because Exalted already does that, and it's horrible that way. Now, if the dice escalate (like Free League's Twilight 2000 as compared to other Year Zero Engine games), then that is better than the numbers of dice going up.

Any game with too many talents to count (many flavors of D&D) also would be bad because it just becomes splatbook/build city... a nightmare for GMs.
The effects should be driven by players instead of some obscure definition in a splatbook.

It just reads as an un-usable book. I know rpg.net got crazy about it for a while, but it was a mess in my opinion.

That makes sense. And I agree that Exalted reads like shit, 1st through 3rd edition. I know, I read all PDFs. I don't know how people manage to play the game.

jeff37923

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2022, 12:11:14 AM »
Exalted's setting, Creation, is really fucking good. Really, really good. But the system sucks ass!

So, I ask a question. What if...Exalted's setting used your favorite system? Would it be better to play? Worse? Do tell!

I wouldn't even bother to play it because Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies. Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex. I do not find it really, really good.
"I do not want to create a story, I want to create a stage. The player characters will perform on that stage and interact with the setting. When the players talk to their friends about what their characters did, then there will be a story."

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2022, 12:30:40 AM »
The trick with making Exalted work as a game is finding a way to tailor the mechanics to the desired end result instead of the desired melange of input options. With that in mind I think the things an overhauled rule set would have to facilitate are:

- Resource management which allows for spectacular feats of stunt-magic, but not all the time and not indefinitely. The most interesting fights in Exalted are the ones that happen after you've expended most of your Essence.
- Combat which is about how one allocates one's resources between attack and defense, rather than about simply generating the maximum possible number of dice. (Personally I'd set things up so that at most you never rolled more than 10 dice.)
- Situations which reward cooperation between varying specialized character types, each with specific niche protection. No one character should be able to take on all foes without vulnerabilities he needs other people to cover for him.
- Ways to manage large groups of mortal forces and organizations, all the way up to realms and kingdoms.
- An underlying structure and logic to the Charm system, which would enable GMs to wing the management of Essence mote expenditure in return for specific bonus types.
- A rule to reinforce the typical pattern of anime combat, which is that characters have to take a certain amount of damage or go through a certain amount of time and effort first before they can break out their heaviest guns.

I would probably start with the WoD system but then overhaul combat and Charms significantly, maybe drawing on elements of The Riddle of Steel's die pool allocation system.
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MeganovaStella

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2022, 12:38:31 AM »
Exalted's setting, Creation, is really fucking good. Really, really good. But the system sucks ass!

So, I ask a question. What if...Exalted's setting used your favorite system? Would it be better to play? Worse? Do tell!

I wouldn't even bother to play it because Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies. Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex. I do not find it really, really good.

And why do you think that? Exalted is a non-Tolkienian fantasy based on power and its consequences, not power fantasies. Granted, White Wolf/Onyx Path did muddle it up a bit but it's better than most RPG settings ever made. That's not an easy thing to accomplish.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't compare it to rape.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 12:44:23 AM by MeganovaStella »

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2022, 12:56:57 AM »
Exalted is a non-Tolkienian fantasy based on power and its consequences, not power fantasies.

Part of the problem is that played as written, Exalted is essentially structured to be a tragedy rather than a typical RPG rise-to-power scenario: the Great Curse of the Solar Exalted is designed to basically ensure an Exalted will ultimately get screwed by the very Virtues he's most defined by, usually right when it's going to do the most damage. This can feel very frustrating to players used to having more control over their PC's ultimate destiny.

The setting in general has also suffered from the ongoing need to introduce more epic and dangerous threats with each book, so rather like the Forgotten Realms with all its 30th-level NPCs, there are so many destructive and conflicting factions now among the Exalted that newbies can feel very lost about where to enter the game.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

STR 8 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 11 WIS 6 CHA 3

MeganovaStella

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2022, 01:05:33 AM »
Exalted is a non-Tolkienian fantasy based on power and its consequences, not power fantasies.

Part of the problem is that played as written, Exalted is essentially structured to be a tragedy rather than a typical RPG rise-to-power scenario: the Great Curse of the Solar Exalted is designed to basically ensure an Exalted will ultimately get screwed by the very Virtues he's most defined by, usually right when it's going to do the most damage. This can feel very frustrating to players used to having more control over their PC's ultimate destiny.

The setting in general has also suffered from the ongoing need to introduce more epic and dangerous threats with each book, so rather like the Forgotten Realms with all its 30th-level NPCs, there are so many destructive and conflicting factions now among the Exalted that newbies can feel very lost about where to enter the game.

It can. But as long as you brief everyone at the table about what can happen, and everyone agrees, there's gonna be little to no issue. I will admit it would really suck if I had to go through Limit Break without being prepared beforehand.

yeah that was a big reason why they had to make 3e. The other big reason was the rules.

jeff37923

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2022, 01:08:51 AM »
Exalted's setting, Creation, is really fucking good. Really, really good. But the system sucks ass!

So, I ask a question. What if...Exalted's setting used your favorite system? Would it be better to play? Worse? Do tell!

I wouldn't even bother to play it because Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies. Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex. I do not find it really, really good.

And why do you think that? Exalted is a non-Tolkienian fantasy based on power and its consequences, not power fantasies. Granted, White Wolf/Onyx Path did muddle it up a bit but it's better than most RPG settings ever made. That's not an easy thing to accomplish.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't compare it to rape.

You need to improve your reading comprehension.

Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies.

There are a lot better non-Tolkienian fantasy settings out there, Exalted's doesn't even come close to being really, really good. I would not defile any game system worthy of playing with such a piece of crap as Exalted's setting. Again, Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex.
"I do not want to create a story, I want to create a stage. The player characters will perform on that stage and interact with the setting. When the players talk to their friends about what their characters did, then there will be a story."

jeff37923

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2022, 01:09:22 AM »
Double Post
"I do not want to create a story, I want to create a stage. The player characters will perform on that stage and interact with the setting. When the players talk to their friends about what their characters did, then there will be a story."

MeganovaStella

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2022, 01:11:51 AM »
Exalted's setting, Creation, is really fucking good. Really, really good. But the system sucks ass!

So, I ask a question. What if...Exalted's setting used your favorite system? Would it be better to play? Worse? Do tell!

I wouldn't even bother to play it because Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies. Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex. I do not find it really, really good.

And why do you think that? Exalted is a non-Tolkienian fantasy based on power and its consequences, not power fantasies. Granted, White Wolf/Onyx Path did muddle it up a bit but it's better than most RPG settings ever made. That's not an easy thing to accomplish.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't compare it to rape.

You need to improve your reading comprehension.

Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies.

There are a lot better non-Tolkienian fantasy settings out there, Exalted's doesn't even come close to being really, really good. I would not defile any game system worthy of playing with such a piece of crap as Exalted's setting. Again, Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex.

Improve my reading comprehension how? I understood your post perfectly.

And why would you say Exalted's setting is a piece of crap? What makes you think that? Do tell.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 01:13:24 AM by MeganovaStella »

jeff37923

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2022, 01:15:11 AM »
Exalted's setting, Creation, is really fucking good. Really, really good. But the system sucks ass!

So, I ask a question. What if...Exalted's setting used your favorite system? Would it be better to play? Worse? Do tell!

I wouldn't even bother to play it because Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies. Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex. I do not find it really, really good.

And why do you think that? Exalted is a non-Tolkienian fantasy based on power and its consequences, not power fantasies. Granted, White Wolf/Onyx Path did muddle it up a bit but it's better than most RPG settings ever made. That's not an easy thing to accomplish.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't compare it to rape.

You need to improve your reading comprehension.

Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies.

There are a lot better non-Tolkienian fantasy settings out there, Exalted's doesn't even come close to being really, really good. I would not defile any game system worthy of playing with such a piece of crap as Exalted's setting. Again, Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex.

Everything you said is wrong.

So you claim.

Source: I made it the fuck up

That much is obvious.

"I do not want to create a story, I want to create a stage. The player characters will perform on that stage and interact with the setting. When the players talk to their friends about what their characters did, then there will be a story."

MeganovaStella

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2022, 01:21:06 AM »
Exalted's setting, Creation, is really fucking good. Really, really good. But the system sucks ass!

So, I ask a question. What if...Exalted's setting used your favorite system? Would it be better to play? Worse? Do tell!

I wouldn't even bother to play it because Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies. Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex. I do not find it really, really good.

And why do you think that? Exalted is a non-Tolkienian fantasy based on power and its consequences, not power fantasies. Granted, White Wolf/Onyx Path did muddle it up a bit but it's better than most RPG settings ever made. That's not an easy thing to accomplish.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't compare it to rape.

You need to improve your reading comprehension.

Exalted's setting is designed for people with unfulfilled power fantasies.

There are a lot better non-Tolkienian fantasy settings out there, Exalted's doesn't even come close to being really, really good. I would not defile any game system worthy of playing with such a piece of crap as Exalted's setting. Again, Exalted and its setting is to most RPGs what rape is to sex.

Everything you said is wrong.

So you claim.

Source: I made it the fuck up

That much is obvious.



It's the truth! Because I said so. Don't like it? Kill self.

EDIT: And by kill self I mean kill myself. You. Kill me. Sorry, my head hurts and it's late where I'm at.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 01:36:01 AM by MeganovaStella »

bromides

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Re: Exalted's setting with your favorite system: what changes
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2022, 01:42:32 AM »
Taste in setting relies a lot on the eye of the beholder... so I'm not getting in the middle of that one.

The old White Wolf need to sell you a splatbook for everything can also be rather annoying. It was particularly bad with Exalted, I think... but I don't get that twisted with the setting.

Of course, my view of the Exalted setting is primarily the Solars plus the Dragon-blooded Realm. Everything else doesn't really matter to me, so I ignore it... which is, IMO, how you ought to treat a splatbook-infested setting (not just limited to Exalted since many big game companies do this).

I guess that's a nice thing about Free League. "Forbidden Lands" is very self-contained, with a single hardcover that details the primary setting & campaign ("Raven's Purge"). Yes, there's "The Bitter Reach", but that's a whole separate campaign and separate geography with no cross-over.