Quote from: Kiero;732909For a moment, I was tempted to go and post a thread with this very topic back on TBP (ie "why would anyone want to go back to 2001/2006 all over again"), then I realised it would be all the ammunition my haters need to try to get me banned again. Fundamentally, I don't give enough of a shit about Exalted to bother.

If the game turns out not to be a polished turd (and I'm not hopeful) my group might give it a go later on, once they've released some splats we actually want to play (hint: Solars ain't it), and there's been the usual round of debugging and errata.

I've had to keep my mouth shut about it over there as well.  Sit on the D&D forums and there's just blast after blast at WotC for not showing enough about Next (even though it has put out all the playtests and has had tons of discussions), but then OPP are the holy seers with Exalted 3, even though they are pretty much only saying, "trust us - it will be awesome - we're even having like ... 9 ... people playtest some of it!"

I really, really was excited about Exalted 3 and revising the mechanics, but the Kickstarter soured me because all it was is Gaming Bling, and little of substance, and then as time has gone on I realize that even if I do have better mechanics, the setting is kind of stale now.  Ah well, I still have a bit of hope, but honestly I'm 99% sure we are going to get combat that lasts forever once again.

Quote from: One Horse Town;732911I've always wondered why Exalted is relatively popular.

Because it's fantasy superheroes with East Asian pop (anime/manga) aesthetics. Munchkins love this shit.

Though I feel its popularity is overrepresented, at least over at RPGnet.

I have a love/hate thing with Exalted. I think it's a splendid premise -- kung fu demigods banished because of hubris return from spiritual exile as the empire that hunted them down crumbles to dust and old evils stir to threaten the whole world. I think the premise lends itself beautifully to sandbox gaming, mass battles, domain management and a bunch of other things I adore, plus over-the-top superheroics.

What killed Exalted for me is the cruft, both system and setting, that so quickly accumulated, plus the pretentious writing. That sounds rich coming from an avowed WW fan like myself, but really, Exalted makes Vampire: The Masquerade look like Paranoia by comparison.

It was one of these games that I wanted to like but ultimately couldn't. At least not enough to actually take on the challenge of running it. I might still give it a chance as a player, though, if the group was right.

Quote from: Skywalker;732827There has been consistent updates on all those matters via updates. The only thing they haven't said was a specific expected date as its still not certain enough.

I don't understand why they just don't come out and say it. Why do they feel the need for all the obfuscation? Why post which charms they are working on this month without telling you how many charms are done and how many are left?

I would be a lot more forgiving if they were just clear and open about shit.

Quote from: Ladybird;732878Kickstarter isn't the problem; if Exalted 3 had been based on the "traditional" "publisher fronts all of the costs, then releases" model, it would still be delayed.

Delays aren't even the problem, because a couple of days after it eventually arrives, it won't matter that it was late. A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad.

Communication is a problem. I get that the authors have set themselves a huge task, and I get the feeling they've bitten off more than they can chew, but the actual fanbase would be more accepting of them just admitting it.

The workload is the ridiculous thing, though. They've got to develop a game system with more moving parts than a Magic core set, on RPG industry pay scales. That's a fucking joke. It's not going to happen.

As ever with kickstarter - caveat emptor! Things could get delayed. Things could even be shit when they arrive - but you're not paying for something to be brilliant, you're paying for something to exist.

I think you right whats really bothering me is the lack of effective communication.

Quote from: Obeeron;732926I've had to keep my mouth shut about it over there as well.  Sit on the D&D forums and there's just blast after blast at WotC for not showing enough about Next (even though it has put out all the playtests and has had tons of discussions), but then OPP are the holy seers with Exalted 3, even though they are pretty much only saying, "trust us - it will be awesome - we're even having like ... 9 ... people playtest some of it!"

I really, really was excited about Exalted 3 and revising the mechanics, but the Kickstarter soured me because all it was is Gaming Bling, and little of substance, and then as time has gone on I realize that even if I do have better mechanics, the setting is kind of stale now.  Ah well, I still have a bit of hope, but honestly I'm 99% sure we are going to get combat that lasts forever once again.

I was really excited as well which is of course why I'm now so annoyed with the damn thing. I actually had considered dropping my pledge due to the lack of actual information during the kickstarter. But I decided to give them a chance since its the same group that had done Ink Monkeys and had been so open and clear with it. So umm yeah. I fucked up on that one.

Quote from: Kiero;732839Why do you even care about the release of the initial product? It's for the same old, played-out "Solars against the world" that we've had for over a decade. But with a slightly reworked system and a heavy side of "trust us, it will be awesome even though it's the same Storyteller shit". With bonus "no support for any other type of Exalt yet" - and good luck on them appearing.

Well the honest truth is I've never gotten to play any version of Exalted. My groups look at the rules and say "what the fuck is this?" and stop right there. In fairness I think they are largely right. The rule set is a super complicated mess. I will freely admit to not even understanding how 2e is supposed to work much less how it actually does. I try to read about the tick system and suddenly I want to do anything else.

The other thing is I think there is a lot of good in the setting and with a good system its something I think could be fun.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;732959I would be a lot more forgiving if they were just clear and open about shit.

I understand your concern. I guess just don't feel like they are obfuscating matters as much as you suggest, especially compared to a number of other KSs I can think of. In any case, they are behind schedule, so you are right to gripe.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;732959Well the honest truth is I've never gotten to play any version of Exalted. My groups look at the rules and say "what the fuck is this?" and stop right there.

FWIW I don't think 3e is going to solve this issue. The rules may be more streamlined, but the added focus that the developers give to the rules in order to fix various issues, tends to aggravate this reaction IME.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;732959My groups look at the rules and say "what the fuck is this?" and stop right there.

This is of course a lie; I challenge you to actually FIND any rules buried in those love letters to Naruto that they pass off as rulebooks

Quote from: One Horse Town;732911I've always wondered why Exalted is relatively popular.

I don't know that it is.

RPGnet skews perception, but IRL it seems like it was a solid seller for WW in a time when their other books weren't selling much anymore. It probably never even hit #3.

Here are links to the latest Exalted news:

http://nishkriya.com/

http://avatarcomic.net/ExaltedWiki/mediawiki-1.19.1/index.php?title=Main_Page

To be fair, I believe they have been somewhat open about their delay issues, especially in regards to the developer's illness.

But I pretty much gotten to the point where I really don't care when or if Exalted 3e ever gets released. Since I am only one customer, its really no big loss to them.

This is coming from someone who used to own the whole entire Exalted run, 1st and second edition(sadly my 2nd books were stolen from me).

Quote from: Skywalker;732964I understand your concern. I guess just don't feel like they are obfuscating matters as much as you suggest, especially compared to a number of other KSs I can think of. In any case, they are behind schedule, so you are right to gripe.

FWIW I don't think 3e is going to solve this issue. The rules may be more streamlined, but the added focus that the developers give to the rules in order to fix various issues, tends to aggravate this reaction IME.

I can see you point of view. I still don't get the people on the kickstarter comments page that treat it like its some kind of strange fan club you have to pay entrance to and maybe if your lucky they will give you something.

I'm also concerned it will be "streamlined" but still be too wonky for me to actually play.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;732965This is of course a lie; I challenge you to actually FIND any rules buried in those love letters to Naruto that they pass off as rulebooks

Hey! That's an insult to Naruto! The Naruto universe is way more consistent and easier to make rules for than the Exalted system or universe! :D

Quote from: J Arcane;732967I don't know that it is.

RPGnet skews perception, but IRL it seems like it was a solid seller for WW in a time when their other books weren't selling much anymore. It probably never even hit #3.

I've always had the feeling Exalted was a nitche game. It has strong and consistent sales but never was a huge hit. It's fans though are quite loud and make it seem more popular than it numerically is.

Quote from: Starglyte;732985Here are links to the latest Exalted news:

http://nishkriya.com/

http://avatarcomic.net/ExaltedWiki/mediawiki-1.19.1/index.php?title=Main_Page

To be fair, I believe they have been somewhat open about their delay issues, especially in regards to the developer's illness.

But I pretty much gotten to the point where I really don't care when or if Exalted 3e ever gets released. Since I am only one customer, its really no big loss to them.

This is coming from someone who used to own the whole entire Exalted run, 1st and second edition(sadly my 2nd books were stolen from me).

Ohhh they posted another update that tells me nothing. Joy!

I understand your position and I'm fast approaching it myself. That makes me sad and it really is a loss for the developers. Because I'm sure I'm not the only one approaching your position and I'm sure your not the only one already there. I will remember this experience when I'm thinking of new games to pick up.

Quote from: One Horse Town;732911I've always wondered why Exalted is relatively popular.

Oh, I don't wonder why it WAS popular when it first came out, at all.
I wonder why it's still popular, given that its transitional Storyteller system, like ABERRANT, is a case of "turn it up to 11 when the amplifier only goes to 6" and Second Edition was basically the same thing, only overcomplicated.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;733020its transitional Storyteller system, like ABERRANT, is a case of "turn it up to 11 when the amplifier only goes to 6"

That is a good way to describe it!

Quote from: Kiero;732909For a moment, I was tempted to go and post a thread with this very topic back on TBP (ie "why would anyone want to go back to 2001/2006 all over again"), then I realised it would be all the ammunition my haters need to try to get me banned again. Fundamentally, I don't give enough of a shit about Exalted to bother.

This has become my own view of a great many things on TBP really...with the same general conclusion.

Quote from: One Horse TownI've always wondered why Exalted is relatively popular.

The original premise is super awesome. I'm not being ironic btw, it really is. "Ancient Myth + S&S + Tanith Lee & Cook* + Anime/Manga Fantasy Superheroes" is a SUPER AWESOME premise. I mean seriously it is, it hits nearly all of my own fandoms. There hadn't been big proper S&S settings for a while save maybe Dark Sun (wich had been discontinued for years and that's if you count that as S&S rather than AD&Dified dark S&P), and Exalted hit S&S in a very different way than usual being about OTT Moorcockian types rather than gritty types. And yes I do love the setting, it's one of the great fantasy settings.

However the original premise was fairly quickly diluted and it seems to have mainly become "Shonen Superheroes in Magic China" later on, wich is very disappointing (not that I mind either Shonen (when good) or Mythic China (I've loved Ancient Chinese history for like 25 years) but...the original premise was this AND WAY MUCH MORE). Oh and the "need for lots of sourcebooks to play stuff other than Solar Exalts, argh".

Oh and the system? Urgh. I'd freaking love an OSR take on Exalted and so, I strongly suspect, would most people here.

Quote from: The Ent;733033Oh and the system? Urgh. I'd freaking love an OSR take on Exalted and so, I strongly suspect, would most people here.

By this do you mean a B/X or S&W Exalted, or a retroclone of the original rules but with an old school mindset?

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;733037By this do you mean a B/X or S&W Exalted, or a retroclone of the original rules but with an old school mindset?

Mainly the former really, the latter could probably be very cool as well (Arduin is oldschool after all, the meme that "oldschool means random losers getting murdered by kobolds" isn't really true - well it can be but doesn't have to) but I think the setting really deserves a way easier and more streamlined rules system.

Something like S&W Exalted would probably rock imo.

I think Exalted - even channeled through AD&D - is entirely do-able.  Take the Deities & Demigods book, use the Chinese and Japanese...well, hell, use all the mythoi in there, plus the rules for above 18 scores, figure a good way to generate characters with scores that high (d10+15, maybe?  avg. would be 20), have "first" level be like...10th level AD&D and go from there.

Also and obviously remove demi-human level limits for characters.

Might have to dive into psionics too.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;732959The other thing is I think there is a lot of good in the setting and with a good system its something I think could be fun.

Have you tried any of the simplification hacks, like Qwixalted?

Basically, it needs a system that says "fuck dealing with plebs at the individual level, we're not mechanically interested in them" and assumes that it's only going to deal with Special People and societies.