Necromancy

woodsmoke · October 27, 2014, 04:40:18 PM

Quote from: jibbajibba;794377I think where Alignment falls foul is where it is set as an absolute. In reality you may be primarily lawful good but you might still speed or use the company's photocopier at weekends. Equally you might be entirely lawful good and never think of using a disabled spot whilst your daughter pops out to use the toilet, but when the nazis invade you are too shit scared to actually do anything about it.

I think I'm going to make this my "official" take on the subject.

Quote from: TristramEvans;794385So...German is an alignment language?

I see what you did there. And I laughed.

rawma · October 27, 2014, 06:55:56 PM

Quote from: Will;794417Nah, for 3e you can just look here:

Wait, did you think I don't want to look through boxes of old rulebooks?

But thanks for the useful link.

Will · October 27, 2014, 06:58:20 PM

There are also good Pathfinder online resources, too.

It's my favorite thing about OGL... People being able to provide easy online resources.

Ravenswing · October 28, 2014, 09:36:46 AM

Quote from: rawma;794240All of the benefits can be realized without formal rules, and/or with alternate systems like reputation and law enforcement.

And have been doing, for decades now. I think it took me all of a month's worth of playing OD&D before I decided that the concept of alignment was full of shit. It was the very first OD&D rule I pitched, and that got the ball rolling quickly to my homebrew.

Opaopajr · October 28, 2014, 12:56:04 PM

I still also run reputation and law enforcement (not formalized system) atop alignment. I technically need both, especially since my supernatural meddling beings are wholly not bothered by those. And alignment throws a complete monkey wrench in everyone's expectations, as failed ideal & tendency allows for entertaining complications. Like 'walking & chewing bubble gum', it is easy peasy for me (had a lot of IN SJG practice).

Omega · October 28, 2014, 01:00:14 PM

Back on topic. Animate Dead in OD&D and BX isnt necromancy. The spells dont have any type indicator. They just are.

And digging out my AD&D PHB. Animate Dead is necromantic. But so is all cure spells, and heal, and slow poison, regeneration, etc. Thus necromantic magic is neither good nor evil. It is the user and the use they put it to that defines it.

Like the Create Water example.

crkrueger · October 28, 2014, 03:21:57 PM

Quote from: Omega;794682Back on topic. Animate Dead in OD&D and BX isnt necromancy. The spells dont have any type indicator. They just are.

And digging out my AD&D PHB. Animate Dead is necromantic. But so is all cure spells, and heal, and slow poison, regeneration, etc. Thus necromantic magic is neither good nor evil. It is the user and the use they put it to that defines it.

Like the Create Water example.

May be pedantic, but, no. You're comparing two different things. Create Water is a specific spell, not a type.

Conjuration Spells can be used for Good or Evil, just like Necromantic Spells.

Cure Light Wounds might be considered Evil if you're Asmodeus healing yourself. That's the Create Water example.

Animate Dead, however, specifically, in many versions of D&D is an overtly Evil act.

The fact that some Necromantic spells are unaligned tools doesn't mean all Necromancy is an unaligned tool.

In AD&D, things are not all morally relative, there is inherent, cosmological Good and Evil.

Will · October 28, 2014, 03:51:31 PM

And in many forms of D&D it does not, in fact, state 'Casting animate dead is always an evil act.'

Which, given it's a game with (in most versions) absolute morality, suggests that in most forms of D&D it is NOT always an evil act.

RPGPundit · October 30, 2014, 10:59:06 PM

Quote from: rawma;794240Everyone seems to hate alignment, but it's still there. Really, I've never met anyone who thinks that alignment is a good thing.

I think alignment can be extremely useful, if used the right way. For example, the way I set up alignments in Arrows of Indra.

rawma · October 31, 2014, 09:56:42 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;795271I think alignment can be extremely useful, if used the right way. For example, the way I set up alignments in Arrows of Indra.

Looking at http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2014/02/arrows-of-indra-alignment.html, it seems better than the traditional D&D alignment system; my understanding of what I read there is:

that characters can and perhaps will change alignment more often than in D&D.
that classes create additional actions that will lose Holy status, rather than requiring a particular alignment.
that most ordinary beings will not be Holy or Unholy; so the tendency to always use alignment to decide how to deal with somebody is averted.
that Holy and Unholy are tied to really significant acts.
that alignment has significant mechanical effects. D&D has some tendency this way with a few aligned magical items, but relatively little in spell effects (beyond Holy/Unholy Word, most spells tied to good or evil are only significant against major supernatural manifestations).

The more tolerable manifestations of D&D alignment have at least some degree of some of these. I don't think I've seen all of these together before.

RPGPundit · November 04, 2014, 09:45:39 PM

Quote from: rawma;795435Looking at http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2014/02/arrows-of-indra-alignment.html, it seems better than the traditional D&D alignment system; my understanding of what I read there is:
that characters can and perhaps will change alignment more often than in D&D.
that classes create additional actions that will lose Holy status, rather than requiring a particular alignment.
that most ordinary beings will not be Holy or Unholy; so the tendency to always use alignment to decide how to deal with somebody is averted.
that Holy and Unholy are tied to really significant acts.
that alignment has significant mechanical effects. D&D has some tendency this way with a few aligned magical items, but relatively little in spell effects (beyond Holy/Unholy Word, most spells tied to good or evil are only significant against major supernatural manifestations).
The more tolerable manifestations of D&D alignment have at least some degree of some of these. I don't think I've seen all of these together before.

Yeah, well, the approach was to make use of all the various things I always tried to use with alignment in my games; and I think it shows how you can use alignment in a way that is actually beneficial to a game system.