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Eureka! - MtG in D&D

Started by Guest (Deleted), May 19, 2006, 02:10:00 PM

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Guest (Deleted)

I've had a eureka - a moment when something complicated you've pondered for a LONG time snaps into astonishly clear focus.  I am excited.  It has to do with magic.  I'll show it off later!! :)

Guest (Deleted)

Ok, here goes - this is a very early draft of the final piece of the Dusk Player's Guide - the acquisition system.

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With the spell using classes equalized without respect to their spell selections players are free to create their own spell lists using the spell acquisition system. The system is fairly simple: Each spell has a base acquisition cost as indicated on the table which fills the next few pages. These costs are expressed as a number and a symbol – w for Valrean or white magic, U for Balcridean or blue magic, B for Sodrean or black magic, R for Shunrian or red magic, and g for Aborean or Green magic.

Acquisition costs are met using spell spheres. A character starts with two spheres. One of the spheres represents his alignment, the other represents his training. Each time a character gains access to a new level of spells he gains another sphere, so a character with 9th level spells has a total of 10 spheres.
The spell spheres a character has must match up with the spell spheres a character has.  For the acquisition cost 1R means 1 red sphere and 1 sphere of any color. This cost can be met by any character of at least 1st level with one red sphere.

As you review the lists below you will note that, by default, many spells have fairly serious commitments to a single color. That is because these costs represent the base acquisition cost of the spell – not it's only acquisition cost.  If you wish you can learn a spell as being a higher level than it actually is. For each level you add to the spell you can reduce it's color commitment by 1.
For example, Abolish is a 4th level spell that costs 2Www. You can also choose to learn the spell as a 5th level spell costing 4wW or as a 6th level spell costing 6W. If you are using epic level rules with spell slots beyond 9th you can even learn spells that go directly into those slots. However, you cannot reduce the color commitment of a spell to completely colorless. Continuing the example above Abolish cannot be learned as a colorless 7th level spell costing 8.

It is ultimately up to you how your character's spell list will play out. That is an awesome amount of responsibility and challenge. Just remember that as a spell user you are tainted by the magic you know. If you know black magic spells which punish black creatures will hurt you even if you are the most kind and giving person in the world. Keep this in mind as well when choosing your selection of spells.

When constructing your character consider the spells you wish to have and plan your sphere acquisition appropriately. Here are the spell lists, sorted by level. Spells in bold are from this book, all others are from the Player's Handbook.


Sample Acquisition costs for PHB spells--
Acid Fog 3BBBBB
Acid Splash B
Aid 1W
Air Walk 3UU
Alarm 1W
Align Weapon WW
Alter Self 2U
Analyze Dweomer 5UU
Animal Growth 4G
Cure Light Wounds 1W
Magic Missile RR
Shield 1W

Ilium

This is really cool.  I found the discussion of "cost" confusing, but I think I now understand that you don't actually spend the spheres.  They're more like a prerequisite.  This is a really cool way to reflect specialization, since if I want that Cure Critical Wounds spell but only have one white sphere it would presumably be, what, a 6th or 7th level spell for me?  I'm assuming CCW has a "cost" of 4WWW or maybe 4WWWW.
 

JongWK

Quote from: PookaSample Acquisition costs for PHB spells--
Acid Fog 3BBBBB
Acid Splash B
Aid 1W
Air Walk 3UU
Alarm 1W
Align Weapon WW
Alter Self 2U
Analyze Dweomer 5UU
Animal Growth 4G
Cure Light Wounds 1W
Magic Missile RR
Shield 1W

Hello, Magic: the Gathering. ;)
"I give the gift of endless imagination."
~~Gary Gygax (1938 - 2008)


Guest (Deleted)

Quote from: IliumThis is really cool.  I found the discussion of "cost" confusing, but I think I now understand that you don't actually spend the spheres.  They're more like a prerequisite.  This is a really cool way to reflect specialization, since if I want that Cure Critical Wounds spell but only have one white sphere it would presumably be, what, a 6th or 7th level spell for me?  I'm assuming CCW has a "cost" of 4WWW or maybe 4WWWW.
Correct - you don't actually spend the spheres. They simply meet the prerequiste or "acquisition" cost of the spell.

As to Magic: The Gathering - yes, that's the exact idea.  I've been working on this merger for literally years trying to come up with a system that borrows the flavorful conflict of MtG while still holding true to D&D as much as possible.

Under this system the cleric and druid are gone, replaced by the priest.  These three casting styles are just that - styles. Actual spell lists are determined by the path the character chooses to walk down. The sphere system means a every class can potentially have any spell - BUT any given character will not have all the spells he wants, or at least not at the lowest possible levels for the spells. The system sees to that. It is beautifully recombinant - that is it consists of a few simple pieces and concepts but thost pieces recombine into a bewildering number of configurations giving the play of spell casters a depth normal D&D can't begin to touch.

Name Lips

I'm also not too keen on the "cost" terminology. It implies you're spending something that you've acquired. Even in M:TG, you tap the land to add mana to your pool, and then you spend it. There's acquisition and payment, and the "cost" terminology for casting spells works there.
Next phase, new wave, dance craze, anyways, it's still rock and roll to me.

You can talk all you want about theory, craft, or whatever. But in the end, it's still just new ways of looking at people playing make-believe and having a good time with their friends. Intellectualize or analyze all you want, but we've been playing the same game since we were 2 years old. We just have shinier books, spend more money, and use bigger words now.

Cyclotron

So these are a little more like "prerequisites" for learning the spell, rather than "costs" to buy a spell.  I kind of like the idea.

Lately, I've been gearing up for an Iron Heroes game, and it sounds a lot like the way Spell Masteries work for Arcanists...  You pick magic schools for your Primary, Secondary, Tertiary and "all other" masteries.  The Masteries progress at different rates to emulate how good your Arcanist is at different types of magic.  Higher Masteries let you create more powerful effects.

For example, Transmutation Mastery 1 lets you shrink a creature temporarily, Tramutation Mastery 6 lets you turn them into a newt, and Transmutation 10 let's you turn them into a statue.


To another degree, it also kind of reminds me of the magic system from the computer game, Age of Wonders.
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 NFPA 70E, Article 330.4 (F):
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Guest (Deleted)

Yeah, they are prereqs, not costs. I can see how using the word "cost" to describe them is confusing though it that never occurred to me (one reason I really need to get someone else to read the book and go over it for such confusing bits).

So you're a 5th level wizard with spheres RRUG.  You can learn 3rd level spells with acquisitions of 2RR, 3U, 3G, 3R, or 4 (yes there are a few "colorless" spells, but they are very rare - though it should be noted wish is one of them); 2nd level spells with costs 1RR, 2U, 2G, 2R or 3; 1st level spells with costs RR, 1U, 1G, 1R or 2; or cantrips of U, G, R, or 1.

You can also learn a second level spell with acquisition 1UU as a 3rd level spell acquistion of 3U, and you can learn a second level green spell with acquisition 1GG as a 3rd level spell acquisition 3G. You can do a similar trick with a 2nd level red spell acquisition RRR, making it a 3rd level spell acquisition of 2RR.
 
Dispel magic is the only multicolored spell on the list at 2WU for the 3rd level one and 5WU for greater dispelling. I'm trying to stay away from the concept of multicolored spells until the players get a good grasp of the single colors - what they mean and what they do.

After all, for non MtG players the five colors are like five NPC's they've never met before - it's hard to present that many personalities off the bat and multicolored spells would muddle the mixture even further.

Blackthorne

This is interesting. I've been trying to work out how to do that for some time now, especially given that cost, rarity and coolness are not synonymous or even. For instance LIGHTNING BOLT is only R. And DARK RITUAL is likewise B, but would then give access to much higher powers...