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Author Topic: ethics of telepaths in superhero games.  (Read 3976 times)

Darrin Kelley

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« on: January 24, 2018, 06:40:38 PM »
The beginning of the end of my liking X-Men comics came as a result of the infamous X-Men/Micronauts limited series back in 1984.

It changed my view of telepaths. And the ethics of being a superhero with those powers.

The main villain of that story was spawned from the evil side of Professor Xavier's psyche. And was responsible for many thousands of deaths in the Microverse. Sound familiar? It should. It was a precursor to what more than a decade later would become Onslaught.

My first superhero game fell into my hands a couple of years later. The original Marvel Superheroes RPG. Then later Champions.

All during my GMing of those superhero games. I found it very difficult to see telepaths in a heroic light. Specifically mind controlling telepaths in a heroic light. It prevented me from making heroic telepaths of my own. And even caused me great discomfort when using them in a villainous form.

When I finally made the character that has been my ultimate statement on telepaths. The character has a strict code of ethics involving the privacy of other people's minds. And views it as a high crime to delve into the memories of other people without their permission. And has nothing remotely like a mind control ability.

So i'm curious about how other superhero gamers have handled this touchy subject. Reply with your answers below.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 07:37:39 PM by Darrin Kelley »
 

Bren

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2018, 07:50:16 PM »
I think that considering the ethics of these powers is interesting. When doing so, it's helpful to clarify how such things work.

  • Is detecting or listening to thoughts or emotions an active or passive action, i.e. do people broadcast their thoughts or feelings so that they are received without conscious intention or does someone have to consciously try to read the thoughts and feelings of others.
  • Telepathy is transmitting information (usually via thoughts). This may or may not include or be limited to emotions. Usually this is an active action and may be separate from receiving thoughts or emotions.
  • Mind reading or receiving thoughts is different than transmitting thoughts. This may be a separate ability or it may be bundled with projecting thoughts or emotions. Also sometimes this is an active action. Sometimes it is simply receiving the thoughts or emotions that others, in effect, broadcast.
  • Empathy is detecting emotion. Though there could also be an ability that projects emotions (see Telepathy). Often this is a passive action. Though it could be an active action.
  • In the case where other people in effect broadcast their thoughts or feelings there is often an ability or discipline for the sensitive to block the thoughts and emotions of others. The ethics will vary based on whether this is or is not available, easily learned, or even innate. As an analogy compare listening at a keyhole vs. hearing someone shouting in a restaurant.
The ethical issues are going to vary depending on how all this stuff works in the game setting.
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Darrin Kelley

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 08:09:27 PM »
My opinion od telepathy was to have drawn a distinction between surface thoughts and memories. Surface thoughts tending to be broadcast. But accessing memory would have to be a direct specifically taken action.

However. Champions never really distinguished between surface thoughts and memories. But instead treated all thought access as an attack action.

I always felt like there should have been more of a nuanced distinction.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 08:19:07 PM by Darrin Kelley »
 

Omega

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2018, 12:52:19 AM »
Comics have played this all across the board.

You have some heros who only listen in on what people broadcast. And often these characters can not turn off the power. Rare have been the hero who can dig deeper and they tend to keep that power reigned in for whatever reason.

When you get abuse of those powers its usually, but not allways, seen as a bad thing or at least as a general no-no when used outside combat situations. Eros with his emotion controlling power for example. Moongragon editing peoples memories. (Though she is only nominally a hero. Every depiction I've seen had her come across as allmost a villainess.) And a few others who have crossed the line.

In the Micronaut/X-Men case you had a hero who was very under control have a part of himself section off and become a villain with far more powers than telepathy in the Microverse.

In the end its no different from alot of other powers. In the hands of one person its used well. But in the hands of someone with less restraint or morals it can and likely eventually will be abused. Example in the same comic Karza in Kitty's body uses her phasing power to kill people.

Or look at the whole pointless point of Squadron Supreme. A device meant to rehabilitate criminals. But in the hands of one rejected lover it is used to alter another members mind. (Much to his regret.)

Or the Invisible Woman. At various times shes pointed out just how easily she could kill anyone. In various creative ways.

But the big factor is. How much control does the telepath have over the power. Is it allways on? Allways picking up surface thoughs? Thats a nightmare for the character.

Real world example: I have a better than average sense of smell. I can pick up stuff normal people cant. Its not enough to be useful. Aside from sometimes telling when certain people walk into the house, or when food is close to going bad, etc. (my mom and aunt used to use me as a sort of smoke detector when they were out driving and smoking pot. (I didnt know. It was just a game to me.:o)) But it was enough to make my life hell when I lived in a town with several large factories.

So I tend to judge this stuff on a case by case basis rather than as a whole because to just say "No one can ever have a pen-knife because someone might use it to kill someone else" is so knee jerk its not even remotely funny. There are so many nuances to just about anything and just about anything can be abused in the wrong hands.

Addendum: so if the game doesnt have a distinction then consider adding one. Also look at wether the power is under the users control or not. Rang can be another added nightmare for the user with no control. And depth just adds more problems. What if all the telepath can read are subconcious thoughts? Or what if the memories they can access are fragmented. Or worse. What if they get EVERYTHING? Every time they get in range of someone.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 01:00:03 AM by Omega »

Darrin Kelley

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2018, 09:30:51 AM »
The heroic telepath I created ultimately had the type of telepathy that would only read broadcast surface thoughts. I thought the distinction was so important that I didn't give her the Telepathy attack power at all. And she is very much a favorite character of mine.

However. Champions GMs tend to be finicky about Telepathy as a sense in any way. So it would always cause an arguement with those GMs that couldn't see beyond the attack power.
 

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2018, 01:48:35 AM »
This is a weird phenomenon, that started to come up in popular perception only during the last few years. Before that, it depended on whether a telepath was good or not, but now there's this vibe (coming largely from the feminist-left) that argues that all telepathy is Rape Culture or something.
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mAcular Chaotic

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2018, 02:44:40 AM »
Well, more of a "right to privacy" thing.
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Omega

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2018, 03:54:28 AM »
Thing is. People unconciously broadcast their thoughts visually too. Its alot more basic. But if someone can pick up on it it is still reading someone.

Omega

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2018, 04:05:33 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1022206
This is a weird phenomenon, that started to come up in popular perception only during the last few years. Before that, it depended on whether a telepath was good or not, but now there's this vibe (coming largely from the feminist-left) that argues that all telepathy is Rape Culture or something.

Actually it goes at least as far back as Star Trek TNG and the advent of the character of Troi's mother as she came across as invasive. And at the very least acted like the was rifling through more than surface thoughts or emotions. Some viewers didnt like that. They had a shorts arc in Voyager too where they dealt with a group that had outlawed telepaths under the banner that telepaths violate a persons privacy or somesuch.

CarlD.

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2018, 11:48:07 AM »
Quote from: Omega;1022222
Thing is. People unconciously broadcast their thoughts visually too. Its alot more basic. But if someone can pick up on it it is still reading someone.

True but generally people consider it different if someone figures out things intuitively by unconsciously and consciously picking up on subtle clues or finding them them out from peeking through a person's windows, bugging their house or breaking in when they're not at home to rifle through their stuff, to use a loose analogy. Someone thick a s brick, a typical person or a Sherlock Holmes can do the former and most wouldn't consider it dodgy, but the former is stalker like to outright illegal. Some people might find both intrusive but odds are they're going to find the latter more so.

Some are going to find telepathy to fall into the former area, mainly because its 'unnatural' and almost impossible for most people to defend against. BUT like other powers its going to depend on how they're used and the motivation. Probing a kidnapper's mind to find out where their victim is might be fine, probing someone's mind to find out their credit card number not so much. You're going to have extremes and subjectivity along the entire range of reactions. Again there are allot of powers that will cause this but as it pertains to what most humans consider sacrosanct, their own thoughts and memories or in the case of Mind Control, their emotions and basic Free Will, reactions may be stronger and more extreme.
It can make for interesting setting elements and role playing. Extremely in depth, non-consensual probing of someone's mind might be considered akin to rape as mental violation equal to the physical violation. In some setting it actually feels like a similar assault. It could be considered worse particularly by a telepathic culture. A somewhat common way for victims of physical assault and rape can take some assurance from is that their attacker may violate their body but not their minds. But that is not the case with a telepath.

In the interest of clarity, Darrin Kelly, did you mean specifically Telepathy or Psionics over all as you mentioned Mind Control which is its own ability in most rpgs and some settings.
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CarlD.

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2018, 12:00:54 PM »
Quote from: Omega;1022224
Actually it goes at least as far back as Star Trek TNG and the advent of the character of Troi's mother as she came across as invasive. And at the very least acted like the was rifling through more than surface thoughts or emotions. Some viewers didnt like that. They had a shorts arc in Voyager too where they dealt with a group that had outlawed telepaths under the banner that telepaths violate a persons privacy or somesuch.

True!

Telepathy, especially non-consensual telepathy as rape has been a concept for sometime. I recall it coming up in the 70s at least and its likely been around earlier. The idea of something or thing being able to, often casually sort through a persons deepest memories thoughts is frightening, frightening enough that some people find it abhorrent and a violation for whatever reason. I think the morality of psi is like most things complicated and to some degree subjective but I admit I'd find the idea of someone able to read my thoughts and memories, even tamper with them, particularly without my knowledge unnerving. Everyone has things they'd rather not make public (and don't, most have a filter of some sort even just basic shame), we're totally in control of where our minds go. Even 'just' a hyper perceptive person would probably make more guarded and uncomfortable around them and I doubt I'd be alone in that.
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Headless

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2018, 04:02:54 PM »
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Darrin Kelley

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2018, 05:06:09 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1022206
This is a weird phenomenon, that started to come up in popular perception only during the last few years. Before that, it depended on whether a telepath was good or not, but now there's this vibe (coming largely from the feminist-left) that argues that all telepathy is Rape Culture or something.

That controversy actually started as early as the 80's. And it's largely the reason I became so uncomfortable portraying telepaths.

Any power can be abused by a sick and twisted mind. But this one definitely touches upon an area that can bring up a lot of discomfort.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 05:18:23 PM by Darrin Kelley »
 

Darrin Kelley

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 05:15:28 PM »
Quote from: CarlD.;1022240
True but generally people consider it different if someone figures out things intuitively by unconsciously and consciously picking up on subtle clues or finding them them out from peeking through a person's windows, bugging their house or breaking in when they're not at home to rifle through their stuff, to use a loose analogy. Someone thick a s brick, a typical person or a Sherlock Holmes can do the former and most wouldn't consider it dodgy, but the former is stalker like to outright illegal. Some people might find both intrusive but odds are they're going to find the latter more so.

Some are going to find telepathy to fall into the former area, mainly because its 'unnatural' and almost impossible for most people to defend against. BUT like other powers its going to depend on how they're used and the motivation. Probing a kidnapper's mind to find out where their victim is might be fine, probing someone's mind to find out their credit card number not so much. You're going to have extremes and subjectivity along the entire range of reactions. Again there are allot of powers that will cause this but as it pertains to what most humans consider sacrosanct, their own thoughts and memories or in the case of Mind Control, their emotions and basic Free Will, reactions may be stronger and more extreme.
It can make for interesting setting elements and role playing. Extremely in depth, non-consensual probing of someone's mind might be considered akin to rape as mental violation equal to the physical violation. In some setting it actually feels like a similar assault. It could be considered worse particularly by a telepathic culture. A somewhat common way for victims of physical assault and rape can take some assurance from is that their attacker may violate their body but not their minds. But that is not the case with a telepath.

In the interest of clarity, Darrin Kelley, did you mean specifically Telepathy or Psionics over all as you mentioned Mind Control which is its own ability in most rpgs and some settings.


Well my flashpoint of offense was with Professor X. Who has both Telepathy and Mind Control. But yes, it comes down to non-consentual manipulation of another person's mind. Which can cover a host of different psionic powers. The central point to me was the non-consentual part.

I had a player in one of the early Champions campaigns I played in who liked using the other characters in the group as puppets. And who liked actually countering the decisions other players made with their mind control powers. From a player's point of view, it destroyed the experience of playing one's own character. And eventually the player got thrown out of the group due to that and other social problems.
 

Omega

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ethics of telepaths in superhero games.
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2018, 02:22:31 AM »
This is why as a DM you sometimes need to just say "NO" when a *whatever* gets abused. Continuity, muh story! or promises not to change things can go straight to hell after a point. If saying "hey, cut back on using that thing so much please?" doesnt work then the players forfeits any rights to complain.

Take the players aside and just say "I made a mistake. Allowing this *whatever* in the campaign is too disruptive and no one wants to reign it in so I have to remove it."

Though if you REALLY dont want to just prune the tree then think about counters. And most games have those in place or just allow you to make them up.

Some examples using just telepathy:
1: Prey: Things that hunt and feed on telepaths. Monsters, aliens, supernaturals, robots, whatever. The more you use, and abuse, the power, the more likely it is to attract these things.

2: Reflect: One of my early Gamma World characters had the mutation to reflect back on someone any mental power used on them.

3: Steal: powers that can outright rip a power from someone else.

4: Copy: A great example in DP7 was a villain with the power to copy and magnify any power used in his viscinity.

5: Dampening: A fairly common tactic. A device or power that shuts down or at least interferes with telepathy in an area.

6: Vulnerability: Probing to someone might allow them free access to probe you right back.

7: Conduit: Probing someone leaves you wide open to being possessed by incorporial beings. Ghosts, demons, aliens, whatever.

8: Comprehension: decades ago I read a short story about an inventor who created a sort of mind reading helmet. Problem was you see things filtered by the targets perceptions and imagination.

9: Mistaken: The telepath thinks they are reading surface thoughts. But instead is reading subconcious thoughts.

10: Feedback: You feel everything the target does. Including pain, drugs, emotions, etc.

11: No Focus/Control: You read everyone in range. Or have a hard time zeroing in on one person.

12: Component: Simmilar to prey. Except someone or something out there wants your brain or power as a key element to their latest invention.

and others.