I'm running my Lamentations of the Flame Princess campaign. The setting is spun together from the many LotFP modules as well as scenarios of my own design. The game is set in 17th Century Europe. But not only is the Thirty Wars War raging, but an interplanetary war of different realities is being fought across Europe as well.

What was the change?
The King in Yellow and his armies have used horrific magic to build a bridge through space from Carcosa to invade 17th Century Europe.

What caused it in setting?
The Spatial Transference Void on Carcosa mixed with the Liquid Time magic found in a Duvan'Ku temple in the Alps (Death Frost Doom)

What Mechanic did you use to decide it should happen (may not apply)?
It was hand waved. But the McGuffin was precise. The PCs had explored the Duvan'Ku temple and encountered the Liquid Time. They were later chased by agents from Carcosa in Munich looking for the temple. So they knew that the Carcosans wanted something from the temple they had been to. And what they wanted were some of the snow globes they saw filled with the liquid time. Later the PCs would return to the temple and find that a horrible battle had taken place between the armies of the undead (which the PCs had left undisturbed) and Carcosan sorcerers and warriors in alien battle armor. Some of the Carcosans had survived and escaped with the snow globes they needed to alter the Spatial Transference Void and make the journey between Carcosa and Earth permanent and large enough for armies.

How were the PCs involved?
They did not cause these events to happen, though their actions did help the Carcosans find what they were looking for. For many sessions they became more and more aware of alien agents on Earth pursing both them and things they had encountered. But at the same time the PC were not directly involved in any of it and were free to go off and do whatever they wanted.

How did they respond?
They had been seeking a ship that can travel between worlds belonging to a dead trans-dimensional explorer. They have found the ship and have left earth to go the Qelong Valley. They believe their is a powerful source of magic there they can use to shut down the bridge to Carcosa.

Keep in mind: The Players have discussed amongst themselves that they could simply abandon Earth. They have a ship that could travel from world to world. I have no idea what they will end up doing and have no expectations.

How many sessions did it take? This is is big question mark for me. I think there are some radically different game lenghts on this board.
The invasion of Earth by Carcosa took place in the 23rd session.

I think some GMs operate from a faulty assumption that because the published setting doesn't list ongoing large-scale struggles, then they couldn't or shouldn't add them in as they play. As originally published, Greyhawk might have good guy countries like Furyondy being hostile to villains like Iuz and The Horned Society without the countries engaged in open warfare. That doesn't mean the DM running the campaign can't turn things up to 11, whether by DM fiat or because of the actions of the PCs. Personally, I prefer it that way. Maybe I don't want to do the whole Epic Struggle Between Good & Ee-ville thing, yet again. Maybe this time the PCs could be like James Bond, and actively try to prevent open warfare.

I thought we had a thread about this a few months back. Deja vu? Glitch in the matrix?

I bake setting change into the campaign from inception because I give each faction a goal they work toward. If the PCs don't intervene, there is a D6 roll to see what happens. The Oriental Adventures AD&D 1e book has this cool system for setting up calendars of events and it inspired me to add random chaos into static settings and I've done it ever since. The Traveller Encounter charts were also a huge influence when I used them as news stories. AKA, I'd roll up encounters and the PCs heard about them on Starport TVs.

I usually run short arc campaigns so I focus on a very heated locale, throw the PCs in the middle and let the chaos commence. I am working on a short campaign and it has 9 key locales and 4 factions in conflict. The PCs will ally or not with a faction and may or may not engage with all the factions, but nevertheless stuff will happen each session in the background that even I won't know in advance (as the D6 rolls will tell me what's happening).

But this method leads to chaos and madness in the setting. No everyone wants that. I've had players who felt the chaos in the background made it hard for them to plan long term and felt they were cheated from being the only movers and shakers in the setting which is the default for many groups. However, most of my players appreciate the feeling of the world being alive and unpredictable.

If you use this method, be sure to tell the players that news bits from the setting background are NOT attempts to steer the PCs into a railroad. A couple years back, I had a player who was sure rumors and news bits were demands from me for the PCs to change their plans.

I use d6s and d8s a lot too to guide my adjudication. Generally low = bad/worse, high = good/better. So a high d6 result might mean a PC-allied faction won a battle, a low d8 result means bad weather or maybe a deteriorating political situation.

All this kind of stuff is why I put a much longer FUTURE timeline in Dark Albion than a past-history section.  It wasn't to force the GM running it to slavishly stick to it or anything, but to give them a wealth of events that could be happening and around the world for the PCs to either be involved in or just to hear about.

Also, real history is great for this. Because unlike most novels or TVs shows, in real history stuff just happens that derails everything. People don't die in "fictionally appropriate moments", sometimes they just fall off a horse or whatever. One of the key points of making a virtual world really work is that its shouldn't usually seem like fiction (unless you're intentionally and directly emulating fiction).

Quote from: RPGPundit;963827All this kind of stuff is why I put a much longer FUTURE timeline in Dark Albion than a past-history section.  It wasn't to force the GM running it to slavishly stick to it or anything, but to give them a wealth of events that could be happening and around the world for the PCs to either be involved in or just to hear about.

Also, real history is great for this. Because unlike most novels or TVs shows, in real history stuff just happens that derails everything. People don't die in "fictionally appropriate moments", sometimes they just fall off a horse or whatever. One of the key points of making a virtual world really work is that its shouldn't usually seem like fiction (unless you're intentionally and directly emulating fiction).

I generally prefer some kind of events generating random table rather than a pre-written timeline, which has the risk of feeling metaplotty. Depends on the setting though - if it's heavy on Fate as a theme, like eg Pendragon, then sure a timeline will work well. I think I would probably not use a timeline for a Game of Thrones campaign even though the TV show has one, because it would not fit with the sense of cosmic randomness & chaos I get from that setting. I would have notes like "X will try to assassinate Y", but I'd usually roll a d6 to see if the attempt succeeded (typically anything from 2+ to 6 needed, depending on relative power/competency.)

Quote from: S'mon;963854I generally prefer some kind of events generating random table rather than a pre-written timeline, which has the risk of feeling metaplotty. Depends on the setting though - if it's heavy on Fate as a theme, like eg Pendragon, then sure a timeline will work well. I think I would probably not use a timeline for a Game of Thrones campaign even though the TV show has one, because it would not fit with the sense of cosmic randomness & chaos I get from that setting. I would have notes like "X will try to assassinate Y", but I'd usually roll a d6 to see if the attempt succeeded (typically anything from 2+ to 6 needed, depending on relative power/competency.)

There are also random event tables in Dark Albion. There's random event tables for territories in the Noble House management rules. There's also random tables for local events in cities.

Quote from: RPGPundit;964206There are also random event tables in Dark Albion. There's random event tables for territories in the Noble House management rules. There's also random tables for local events in cities.

Yeah, I was thinking though about the Great Events of the World rather than local stuff. It's like the difference between playing a plotted CRPG and playing a Total War game, nominally set at a particular point in history but diverging thereafter, even without player input. I really like that feel when I play the Total War series and it's generally what I go for in my RPGs.

Just thinking about Game of Thrones again, since I have the ASoIAF game (& your Dark Albion stuff might be useful, or better than the official RPG) but I struggle with the idea of PCs playing essentially smallfolk in the shadow of the book/TV metaplot. To free it up I really think it needs to have future events NOT fated to occur. Usually the best way to do that is dice rolls or similar randomiser I think. But I can imagine going with something like a declaration "Following the death of King Robert Baratheon, Hand of the King Eddard Stark has arrested Queen Cersei on charge of Treason and declared himself Lord Protector, plunging the Realm into Civil War..." - that would then force everyone into accepting the historical timeline was not in play.

Or thinking of Dark Albion, have you seen The Black Adder? In episode 1 of the original series, Richard's forces inflict a crushing defeat on Henry Tudor at Bosworth Field, but Richard himself dies in the battle and a new dynasty takes power.

Quote from: S'mon;963854I generally prefer some kind of events generating random table rather than a pre-written timeline, which has the risk of feeling metaplotty. Depends on the setting though - if it's heavy on Fate as a theme, like eg Pendragon, then sure a timeline will work well. I think I would probably not use a timeline for a Game of Thrones campaign even though the TV show has one, because it would not fit with the sense of cosmic randomness & chaos I get from that setting. I would have notes like "X will try to assassinate Y", but I'd usually roll a d6 to see if the attempt succeeded (typically anything from 2+ to 6 needed, depending on relative power/competency.)

I use the yearly and monthly random events charts to lay down the outline for what should happen three campaign years ahead of time. This makes it easier to prepare in advance (like stats for armies if there's a war) and gives me something to feed to the PCs if they use fortune-telling or some other divination: I can glance at my cheat sheet and tell them the stars are badly aligned for a great noble if, for example, I rolled "death of lord".

HOWEVER, these results are not set in stone*. The dice might have told me that Kingdom A will launch a major incursion into Kingdom B next spring, but the PCs could stop it before it gets going -whether they meant to do it or not. Maybe they robbed a powerful marcher lord in Kingdom B, causing that kingdom's forces along the border to be alerted and in doing so, ruining the invasion plans of Kingdom A, whose plot depended on catching Kingdom B unaware. You can have a lot of fun with this as a GM and your players will be impressed, even if they know you planned it ahead of time, rather than being a master of improvisation.

* The best part of Return of the Jedi is where the Emperor, after spending much of the movie cackling about how he has foreseen his great victory, blah, blah, blah gets body-slammed to his death by his chief henchman.

Quote from: S'mon;964247Yeah, I was thinking though about the Great Events of the World rather than local stuff. It's like the difference between playing a plotted CRPG and playing a Total War game, nominally set at a particular point in history but diverging thereafter, even without player input. I really like that feel when I play the Total War series and it's generally what I go for in my RPGs.

Just thinking about Game of Thrones again, since I have the ASoIAF game (& your Dark Albion stuff might be useful, or better than the official RPG) but I struggle with the idea of PCs playing essentially smallfolk in the shadow of the book/TV metaplot. To free it up I really think it needs to have future events NOT fated to occur. Usually the best way to do that is dice rolls or similar randomiser I think. But I can imagine going with something like a declaration "Following the death of King Robert Baratheon, Hand of the King Eddard Stark has arrested Queen Cersei on charge of Treason and declared himself Lord Protector, plunging the Realm into Civil War..." - that would then force everyone into accepting the historical timeline was not in play.

Or thinking of Dark Albion, have you seen The Black Adder? In episode 1 of the original series, Richard's forces inflict a crushing defeat on Henry Tudor at Bosworth Field, but Richard himself dies in the battle and a new dynasty takes power.

Here's the thing: being an OSR game, social class is (by default) randomly determined in Albion. So it's unlikely that the PCs will have anyone sufficiently high up in class to be a major player. That's not what the timeline is for, really. It's specifically to allow for that sense of a 'virtual world', a world where shit happens that has fuck all to do with the PCs. Of course, they might be involved with some of it, or have some of it interfere with what they're involved in, and then it can go whatever way the PCs make it go.

But of course a GM could run a "nobles" game of Albion, where one, some or all of the PCs were members of important noble houses. And OBVIOUSLY in that campaign the PCs should have the ability to (within reason) affect historical events (and suffer the consequences of the ways they get involved too).

Quote from: RPGPundit;964597Here's the thing: being an OSR game, social class is (by default) randomly determined in Albion. So it's unlikely that the PCs will have anyone sufficiently high up in class to be a major player. That's not what the timeline is for, really. It's specifically to allow for that sense of a 'virtual world', a world where shit happens that has fuck all to do with the PCs. Of course, they might be involved with some of it, or have some of it interfere with what they're involved in, and then it can go whatever way the PCs make it go.

But of course a GM could run a "nobles" game of Albion, where one, some or all of the PCs were members of important noble houses. And OBVIOUSLY in that campaign the PCs should have the ability to (within reason) affect historical events (and suffer the consequences of the ways they get involved too).

Thanks, you make a good distinction. My only concern with an historical timeline smallfolk game is people googling it. I even feel this way a bit about GMing WW2.

Who said we're bound by the timeline in Dark Albion if we want to chuck it? After all, it's not like evil frogs really took over France or mystery elves were lurking in the hinterlands.  I look at timelines as "here's an idea of what may happen next," but don't find them binding or restrictive. Dark Albion veers off from reality anyway, so who cares what really happened in the Lancaster-York days?

Quote from: Dumarest;964656Who said we're bound by the timeline in Dark Albion if we want to chuck it? After all, it's not like evil frogs really took over France or mystery elves were lurking in the hinterlands.  I look at timelines as "here's an idea of what may happen next," but don't find them binding or restrictive. Dark Albion veers off from reality anyway, so who cares what really happened in the Lancaster-York days?

Yes, absolutely right!

Quote from: S'mon;964634Thanks, you make a good distinction. My only concern with an historical timeline smallfolk game is people googling it. I even feel this way a bit about GMing WW2.

You know, I run TONS of historical games, and this really isn't a big deal. Most of my players realize that its probably more interesting for them NOT to know what's going to happen, and for those who already do or who do bother to look it up, they do so more out of interest, and don't tend to metagame with it. The few times someone has, it was blatantly obvious and everyone called them on it.

Meanwhile, a good Historical-game GM will make a point of avoiding making the historical events so all-consumingly central that it controls the whole game. An important thing to remember when running an historical game is that like any other game, "plot" should be secondary to setting and to characters.  Fill the game with fascinating NPCs, both historical and invented, and make sure that's a central part of the play.

Quote from: RPGPundit;965010You know, I run TONS of historical games, and this really isn't a big deal. Most of my players realize that its probably more interesting for them NOT to know what's going to happen, and for those who already do or who do bother to look it up, they do so more out of interest, and don't tend to metagame with it. The few times someone has, it was blatantly obvious and everyone called them on it.

Meanwhile, a good Historical-game GM will make a point of avoiding making the historical events so all-consumingly central that it controls the whole game. An important thing to remember when running an historical game is that like any other game, "plot" should be secondary to setting and to characters.  Fill the game with fascinating NPCs, both historical and invented, and make sure that's a central part of the play.

Good advice, thanks. NPC-centric play always seems to work best for me.