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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Zak S on April 08, 2020, 08:45:35 PM

Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on April 08, 2020, 08:45:35 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/fxi2zv/apology_to_zak_smith/

Merry Christmas.

EDIT:

https://twitter.com/Ettin64/status/1248038942777065472

https://www.reddit.com/r/osr/comments/fxi3it/apology_to_zak_smith/

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/apology-to-zak-smith.861914/
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: mAcular Chaotic on April 08, 2020, 08:55:42 PM
It got deleted. What's this all about?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on April 08, 2020, 08:58:56 PM
There's more now.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: KingCheops on April 08, 2020, 09:13:55 PM
Lol at TBP.  Their brains must be exploding.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Votan on April 08, 2020, 09:20:09 PM
Quote from: KingCheops;1126155
Lol at TBP.  Their brains must be exploding.

They appear to have just locked the thread
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Groom of the Stool on April 08, 2020, 09:20:45 PM
Champagne for everyone?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: jeff37923 on April 08, 2020, 09:23:04 PM
Now THAT is funny.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: trechriron on April 08, 2020, 09:42:24 PM
I can't believe you made me look at TBP.

Personally, I would suggest pursuing legal action against businesses that decidedly impacted your income vs. individuals. Although... proving that some individuals were super hasty in their libel might help pursue legal action... you genius!

Frankly, in this particular fight I don't know who to believe. I like you. I like Mandy. Was not a shit storm I predicted coming. I may have made a small emotional investment in your coupling. I think I'm more disappointed in the breakup in general than any of the shit slinging (although, that is also pretty depressing...). In my naive little heart, I'm kind of hoping shit gets sorted and you all can go back to just worrying about creating and being, ya know?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Spinachcat on April 08, 2020, 10:19:15 PM
Kudos Zak!

Also, by the look of the Twitter responses, many clowns are offering themselves up as your next targets.

But more importantly, what new cool RPG stuff are you working on?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on April 08, 2020, 10:31:45 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1126169
Kudos Zak!

Also, by the look of the Twitter responses, many clowns are offering themselves up as your next targets.

But more importantly, what new cool RPG stuff are you working on?

Here you go: http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2020/04/new-fucking-content-buy-it.html
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Thornhammer on April 08, 2020, 11:31:38 PM
*blink blink*

Unexpected.  Interesting.

Tomorrow is payday.  Ten bucks, I think I can make that happen.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Arkansan on April 09, 2020, 01:08:09 AM
How delicious.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Joey2k on April 09, 2020, 01:43:33 AM
Very interesting
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: sureshot on April 09, 2020, 08:21:47 AM
I am not a fan of Zak to be honest yet seeing posters in those loinked threads lose their shit at Zak winning just made my day. They are pissed that Zak dared to use the law in his defense. You can damn well bet if it was done against him they would be celebrating imo. While also publicly saying they would also punch him in the face or something similar.

Again I may have said this many times yet I wonder if many people who are mentally ill have simply not been diagnosed as such. What do they expect that someone accuses someone else of physical assault and the accused not defend himself.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 09, 2020, 08:52:56 AM
Welcome to the Really Real World, TBP-ers. Where shooting your mouth off to defamatory levels might not be a smart idea.

BTW, Zak, that first link in your initial post? Dead. Deleted. Next time, archive :)
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Brad on April 09, 2020, 09:23:39 AM
So one scumbag apologizes to another? Who literally gives a fuck, this has nothing to do with gaming. At all.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: David Johansen on April 09, 2020, 09:33:25 AM
It does move the gaming forums out of the age of the get away with saying anything internet.  I'd be really curious to see the rpg.net backstage right about now.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 09, 2020, 11:13:34 AM
reddit deleted it, the crybullies at rpg.net hid it...
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 09, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
Oh my. Seeing Ettin eat crow and literally pony up over it made my day.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on April 09, 2020, 01:24:26 PM
Quote from: Brad;1126219
So one scumbag apologizes to another? Who literally gives a fuck, this has nothing to do with gaming. At all.


I think you must have skimmed: one scumbag (Ettin) apologized to me (awesome guy).

Buy something.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: insubordinate polyhedral on April 09, 2020, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: Zak S;1126251
I think you must have skimmed: one scumbag (Ettin) apologized to me (awesome guy).

Buy something.


If you care to clarify something -- totally understand if you do not -- I was wondering, in your blog post, you wrote:

Quote from: Zak S
Originally I wasn't planning to publish any of it, but since reaction to the benefit for Adam Koebel's victims was so positive, I figured, ok, maybe there are some people in the online RPG scene who aren't gullible psychopaths.


Is that sarcasm, or do you think that Koebel's players were victimized by that incident?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on April 09, 2020, 02:45:35 PM
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1126258
If you care to clarify something -- totally understand if you do not -- I was wondering, in your blog post, you wrote:



Is that sarcasm, or do you think that Koebel's players were victimized by that incident?


His players? I mean maybe, I'd have to talk to them. He has definitely harassed and smeared people online over the years.

Anyway, it yall have other questions im on my blog or zakzsmith AT hawtmayle. I have a lot of stuff to check today. im out
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Theory of Games on April 09, 2020, 02:47:39 PM
Quote from: Zak S;1126148
https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/fxi2zv/apology_to_zak_smith/

Merry Christmas.

EDIT:

https://twitter.com/Ettin64/status/1248038942777065472

https://www.reddit.com/r/osr/comments/fxi3it/apology_to_zak_smith/

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/apology-to-zak-smith.861914/

Congratulations Zak. I never doubted it was all bullshit, regardless of your detractors here.

Spit Truth to Power!!!

Add: you and Pundit have been and always will be the ultimate weapon versus the Story game consortium. Learn to work as one.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Brad on April 09, 2020, 03:53:08 PM
Quote from: Zak S;1126251
I think you must have skimmed: one scumbag (Ettin) apologized to me (awesome guy).

Buy something.


Nahh, you're a worthless fucktard.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Groom of the Stool on April 09, 2020, 04:08:33 PM
Quote from: Brad;1126287
Nahh, you're a worthless fucktard.

I think he looks like a crackwhore.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: sureshot on April 09, 2020, 05:26:08 PM
No surprise from the TBP and other places trying to suppress what happened. When as a whole they created a narrative filled, escapist, echo chamber with their forum, except in the real world unlike an online Forum the reality is different. It is so funny to see the list of "how did this happen " style posts from SJWs who thought that hiding behind a keyboard shielded one from legal harm. I expect to see Zak win against Mandy too.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 09, 2020, 05:33:34 PM
Quote from: sureshot;1126305
No surprise from the TBP and other places trying to suppress what happened. When as a whole they created a narrative filled, escapist, echo chamber with their forum, except in the real world unlike an online Forum the reality is different. It is so funny to see the list of "how did this happen " style posts from SJWs who thought that hiding behind a keyboard shielded one from legal harm. I expect to see Zak win against Mandy too.

Ettin is one of their mods.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Theory of Games on April 09, 2020, 05:46:34 PM
Zak, make these turncoat bitches acknowledge how right you were.

They were in here wiping their asses with your name.

Fuck them.

Brown showers all around!!
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: S'mon on April 09, 2020, 06:08:23 PM
Ettin is certainly scum. I'm still not convinced Zak is exactly Mr Darcy when it comes to husband material, though. But I suppose he could be another Johnny Depp for all I know.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: JamesV on April 09, 2020, 07:21:02 PM
I was someone who had doubts about Zak when Mandy's accusation first came out and maybe I still do. OTOH, he's always been right about defending himself, and in court if he had to. Making Ettin eat crow is good news if you ask me.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: David Johansen on April 09, 2020, 07:27:11 PM
So, while I suspect many here can't actually access Tangency as banned users can't log in, there is some discussion on Tangency including a statement from a moderator that they are trying to put together a statement.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mandy-morbid-and-two-others-accuse-zak-smith-of-abuse-harrassment-sexual-assault-warning-very-very-dark-read-redtext-in-posts-86-418.841424/page-76

I'd be really surprised if they aren't at risk of being considered complicit and as open to litigation as Ettin.  I guess it might depend on individual statements made by specific mods, particularly in the linked thread.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Bunch on April 09, 2020, 08:12:27 PM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1126306
Ettin is one of their mods.


I don't believe he or she is currently a mod.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Bunch on April 09, 2020, 08:15:19 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;1126325
So, while I suspect many here can't actually access Tangency as banned users can't log in, there is some discussion on Tangency including a statement from a moderator that they are trying to put together a statement.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mandy-morbid-and-two-others-accuse-zak-smith-of-abuse-harrassment-sexual-assault-warning-very-very-dark-read-redtext-in-posts-86-418.841424/page-76

I'd be really surprised if they aren't at risk of being considered complicit and as open to litigation as Ettin.  I guess it might depend on individual statements made by specific mods, particularly in the linked thread.
I know nothing of the whole affair but if Ettin is not a lawyer the ability for someone with either the legal skills or money to win against someone without the above is pretty trivial.  OJ gave the world a lesson on that.

I believe a fair number of the mods there are lawyers so it might be a more challenging litigation.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: David Johansen on April 09, 2020, 08:26:19 PM
I'm just saying they probably want a lawyer to give a good read through to the decision against Ettin before they write their statement.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Arkansan on April 09, 2020, 10:31:46 PM
Reddit deleted the post and comments so fast that they can't even be viewed on removeddit. Scummy of them.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 09, 2020, 11:49:17 PM
Quote from: Arkansan;1126341
Reddit deleted the post and comments so fast that they can't even be viewed on removeddit. Scummy of them.

Reddit is full of cowards and shills.  If it goes against their moral busybody groupthink, down the memory hole it goes.  "Scummy" doesn't even touch the surface of how low Reddit is.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 09, 2020, 11:50:33 PM
Quote from: Bunch;1126328
I don't believe he or she is currently a mod.

It's a him.  But anyway, that's news to me.  I know he was for a while.  I obviously don't follow him around, and literally this is the first time I've wasted CPU cycles on him in a few years.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 09, 2020, 11:51:11 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;1126325
So, while I suspect many here can't actually access Tangency as banned users can't log in, there is some discussion on Tangency including a statement from a moderator that they are trying to put together a statement.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mandy-morbid-and-two-others-accuse-zak-smith-of-abuse-harrassment-sexual-assault-warning-very-very-dark-read-redtext-in-posts-86-418.841424/page-76

I'd be really surprised if they aren't at risk of being considered complicit and as open to litigation as Ettin.  I guess it might depend on individual statements made by specific mods, particularly in the linked thread.

Screencap it, post it here.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Valatar on April 10, 2020, 12:14:01 AM
The thing is, I've not the first clue whether the shitty marriage accusations are true.  I wouldn't know this guy from Adam, for all I know I've walked past him on the street.  But because I am a functioning adult, I don't repeat other peoples' accusations as fact on public spaces.  It's really not that hard, but a lot of people lately seem incapable of it, and aren't concerned about whatever impact it may have on the person being spoken of.  For that reason alone I support legal reminders for people that drive-by cancellings aren't a victimless crime.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Spinachcat on April 10, 2020, 04:46:50 AM
Ettin has a gofundme now and lots of posters with names are giving ZakS more targets.

You would think that after seeing ZakS win a lawsuit against a clown who made unsubstantiated claims against him, they would avoid making...unsubstantiated claims against him.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Godfather Punk on April 10, 2020, 06:31:45 AM
Was part of the suit that Paul Matijevic had to post the apology on specific sites? And if those sites remove the apology, is Ettin then in default?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: wmarshal on April 10, 2020, 09:32:35 AM
Quote from: Godfather Punk;1126376
Was part of the suit that Paul Matijevic had to post the apology on specific sites? And if those sites remove the apology, is Ettin then in default?


I think it might become a problem because how can Ettin prove that he posted the apology if the sites put the apology down the good old memory hole?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 10, 2020, 09:59:44 AM
Quote from: wmarshal;1126386
I think it might become a problem because how can Ettin prove that he posted the apology if the sites put the apology down the good old memory hole?

Like rpg.net, somethingawful or r/rpg are interested in anything approaching the truth.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Cave Bear on April 10, 2020, 10:15:36 AM
I can't say that I'm a fan of Zak Smith, but I also haven't actually seen any evidence of his alleged wrongdoings, and the worst I've personally endured from him has been mild annoyance.
Ettin, however, has been a complete fucking cunt to me, and I know that if I were to ever actually publish my game that him and his little clique would probably hurl hateful, false accusations against myself, and try to get my game canceled. I'm glad he's getting his comeuppance, and I hope that he will learn his lesson.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: kythri on April 10, 2020, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: Cave Bear;1126391
and I hope that he will learn his lesson.

Since he's conned people into paying his legal fees and settlement via GoFundMe, I doubt there will be any lesson learned.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 10, 2020, 12:22:21 PM
Quote from: Cave Bear;1126391
I can't say that I'm a fan of Zak Smith, but I also haven't actually seen any evidence of his alleged wrongdoings, and the worst I've personally endured from him has been mild annoyance.
Ettin, however, has been a complete fucking cunt to me, and I know that if I were to ever actually publish my game that him and his little clique would probably hurl hateful, false accusations against myself, and try to get my game canceled. I'm glad he's getting his comeuppance, and I hope that he will learn his lesson.

I agree re: Ettin's general cuntiness but what specifically did he do to you?  

I mean, obviously Australia's laws are such that you could potentially force him to apologize to you :D
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Cave Bear on April 10, 2020, 12:25:04 PM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1126401
I agree re: Ettin's general cuntiness but what specifically did he do to you?  

I mean, obviously Australia's laws are such that you could potentially force him to apologize to you :D


I got banned from rpg.net. Actually, now that I type it out, it's kind of a stupid thing to hold a grudge over years over the fact.
Still, fuck Ettin.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: DocJones on April 10, 2020, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: Valatar;1126356
But because I am a functioning adult, I don't repeat other peoples' accusations as fact on public spaces.

Quoted for Truth. +1
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Eldritch_Knight on April 10, 2020, 03:12:15 PM
Quote from: Godfather Punk;1126376
Was part of the suit that Paul Matijevic had to post the apology on specific sites? And if those sites remove the apology, is Ettin then in default?

This was the case with the lawsuit that The Quartering brought against the Antifa dude that assaulted him. Though it was ordered that BOTH parties submit public apologies. The Quartering receieved an undisclosed amount of money as well.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: EOTB on April 10, 2020, 05:24:39 PM
An agreement can't bind 3rd parties not part of the agreement.

It is still on his personal twitter feed, and I expect it will remain so for whatever time period was stipulated
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: wmarshal on April 10, 2020, 07:23:15 PM
Quote from: EOTB;1126415
An agreement can't bind 3rd parties not part of the agreement.

It is still on his personal twitter feed, and I expect it will remain so for whatever time period was stipulated


IANAL, but I think you're correct that these websites can't be bound by the settlement, but Ettin is. If part of that agreement was for him to post those apologies on those websites, but now that they've been memory-holed does would that open things up where Zak can drag Ettin back to court? Zak's claim would be that Ettin didn't fulfill the settlement.

(I have to imagine those postings on those websites were a part of the settlement. I doubt Ettin posted there unless he had to.)

Ettin could perhaps show the court that he had no control over his apologies being removed, but that's still more interaction and costs that Ettin probably wants to avoid. Those websites might not have done Ettin any favors.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: EOTB on April 10, 2020, 07:28:25 PM
IANL either, but an agreement can't require someone not signing it, or controlled by someone other than a signatory, to perform.  Ettin performed by posting something.  He can't promise something he doesn't control will perform in a particular way.  I'd be very surprised if a lawyer would try to say the settlement was made invalid due to the memory holing.  Which is probably why one posting location stipulated was his own twitter feed, and (I'm guessing) that Ettin wouldn't of his own volition remove/shutter/protect his twitter account for whatever period of time.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: wmarshal on April 10, 2020, 07:30:26 PM
Also, some of those sites reacted very, very quickly in locking down and removing Ettin's apology statement. If Ettin gave them some kind of a heads up that the apology was coming so that they could remove could expose Ettin to more trouble since he acted to subvert the intent of the settlement.

I think. Again, IANAL.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: wmarshal on April 10, 2020, 07:32:06 PM
Quote from: EOTB;1126430
IANL either, but an agreement can't require someone not signing it, or controlled by someone other than a signatory, to perform.  Ettin performed by posting something.  He can't promise something he doesn't control will perform in a particular way.  I'd be very surprised if a lawyer would try to say the settlement was made invalid due to the memory holing.  Which is probably why one posting location stipulated was his own twitter feed, and (I'm guessing) that Ettin wouldn't of his own volition remove/shutter/protect his twitter account for whatever period of time.


But if part of the settlement were the other postings of the apology Ettin would have to show compliance, wouldn't he? He can't do that when those postings have been disappeared.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: EOTB on April 10, 2020, 07:33:29 PM
Courts accept screenshots all the time.  You can't bind me to keep something up on my website because some jerkwad told a 3rd jerkwad it would happen.

Edit - the point is more that I presume the lawyers involved were competent and didn't craft a settlement that would be considered invalid in its construction.  Stating Reddit would perform a certain way in an agreement, when Reddit (or RPGNet) aren't parties in the agreement, would be an invalid construction.  Stating that Party A had to post something on Reddit is OK (and also that Party A won't delete the post they've made), but then it is completely fulfilled in the moment of its posting (presuming it isn't deleted by Party A who does not control the subreddit).

Edit 2 - I'd guess the time of performance by Ettin was specified (you will post to popular subreddit "X" that you do not control at 4:30 EST on April 5) just so that screenshots could be taken; by Zak as well.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Aglondir on April 10, 2020, 11:52:36 PM
Quote from: Bunch;1126328
I don't believe he or she is currently a mod.


Currently, no. But he was on Oct 28, 2018. See post 5 under Rules and Guidelines.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Spinachcat on April 11, 2020, 03:22:41 AM
I'm sure ZakS has screenshots he'll post on his site so nobody can memory hole the story forever. It will exist for searching into the future (and ZakS will SEO the page for easy searching). But more importantly, it has shaken the RPG.net community and every time one of them donates to Ettin's fund, they will have tied their memory to the event. The message ZakS wanted to send has been heard loud and clear.

Also, Ettin is just Zak's first bomb drop. I suspect there will be more. It will be funny seeing the 3rd or 4th clown begging for GoFundMe cash after the donation exhaustion kicks in over at RPG.net.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Bradford C. Walker on April 11, 2020, 03:54:57 AM
Lawfare works. Take notice.

And when they come for you, SUE.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: mightybrain on April 11, 2020, 06:29:43 AM
Hopefully he can use the payouts to fund follow up cases. As long as R0 is greater than one it should burn through SA like the pandemic.

Zak, I see Vornheim is still available on DTRPG. If I buy it there does the money still get to you?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Orphan81 on April 11, 2020, 09:25:54 AM
Quote from: Cave Bear;1126402
I got banned from rpg.net. Actually, now that I type it out, it's kind of a stupid thing to hold a grudge over years over the fact.
Still, fuck Ettin.


It's Ironic to me when I consider my own banning from RPG.net coming up on 6 years now...Particularly since the mod that banned me, was in turn himself banned due to Rape accusations coming out against him.

Male Feminists always project.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: wmarshal on April 11, 2020, 11:53:18 AM
Quote from: Orphan81;1126488
It's Ironic to me when I consider my own banning from RPG.net coming up on 6 years now...Particularly since the mod that banned me, was in turn himself banned due to Rape accusations coming out against him.

Male Feminists always project.


I've found it not uncommon that those who are the most agitated against any given behavior/crime/topic are often projecting their own issues on to others. There are several examples of politicians and clergy attacking gays, who then turn out to be gay themselves. There's no hate like self-hate.

On the other hand with others it's not so much an issue with projection as it's a deliberate move to be a wolf in sheep's clothing to better victimize others. With that rpg.net mod I suspect it was a conscious decision to pretend he was one of the "good guys" to act as a cover for his bad actions.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: insubordinate polyhedral on April 11, 2020, 12:53:15 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1126464
nobody can memory hole the story forever

https://archive.fo/E3Ut6
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: DeadUematsu on April 11, 2020, 01:07:00 PM
The gofundme page comments are hilarious. Talk about beaten dogs yelping.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Spinachcat on April 11, 2020, 07:14:08 PM
I expect the second GoFundMe is gonna be even more fun! Best would be if people commenting in the first GoFundMe get smacked by ZakS so they have to do their own! Its easy if the purple nurgles want to support Ettin (2 heads, 0 brains) with their (misguided) sympathy without exposing themselves to legal action, but hot damn, there's a half dozen people there just begging to be used as a lawyer's target practice!

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1126507
https://archive.fo/E3Ut6


I clicked on the link and my computer popped up with panicked warnings of imminent digital doom. Any other link?

Firefox detected a potential security threat and did not continue to archive.fo. If you visit this site, attackers could try to steal information like your passwords, emails, or credit card details.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: insubordinate polyhedral on April 12, 2020, 02:48:43 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1126551
I clicked on the link and my computer popped up with panicked warnings of imminent digital doom. Any other link?

Firefox detected a potential security threat and did not continue to archive.fo. If you visit this site, attackers could try to steal information like your passwords, emails, or credit card details.


Sigh. Apologies. In all likelihood it's a mismatched DNS name warning for the SSL certificate, probably CloudFlare related. Unfortunately the DNS story for the Archive sites is squirrelly and there's periodic issues with the site from some networks.

You have a few options, depending on where the fault is coming from:

Substitute .fo for .today/.is/.li/.vn and see if it starts working.

Get yourself a copy of Tor Browser for just this kind of occasion.

For Firefox, you could give it a try with https://libredns.gr/ for DNS over HTTPS.

Or try setting your DNS resolvers to a different provider, e.g. https://www.opennic.org/

Otherwise, for DNS-is-distributed-and-oddly-emergent-and-convergent reasons, it might start working again $later.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: CarlD. on April 13, 2020, 08:25:16 AM
Quote from: trechriron;1126162
I can't believe you made me look at TBP.

What was the deal at rpg.net, the link is blocked for whatever reason.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: CarlD. on April 13, 2020, 08:31:06 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1126401
I agree re: Ettin's general cuntiness but what specifically did he do to you?  

I mean, obviously Australia's laws are such that you could potentially force him to apologize to you :D


Ettin is one of the prime assholes that ended up with a Guard role in that goofballs little Stanford Prison experiment LARP.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 13, 2020, 08:44:13 AM
In regards to 'Is Ettin in trouble since TBP, etc are taking down his apologies?', my IANAL, from the hip answer would be 'no'. They are third parties and not beholden to any court order. All Ettin has to do is make the good-faith attempt to publicly apologize.

I don't know Zak from fucking Adam and I don't really care except insofar as I have become terribly suspicious of conjured accusations suddenly appearing, lacking any background, often years old.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Lychee of the Exchequer on April 14, 2020, 05:28:28 AM
I'm all for resolving grievances in a court of law instead of witch huntings or calumny. So I think Zak S. - even if he's (probably not) the Devil incarnate - did a good thing for all RPG players, and society at large, when he decided to sue a (probable) SJW asshole... and won.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Kyle Aaron on April 14, 2020, 05:55:39 AM
Let's party like it's June 22nd, 1941.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: spon on April 14, 2020, 08:45:14 AM
Like Churchill, you mean?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: wmarshal on April 14, 2020, 12:11:44 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1126699
In regards to 'Is Ettin in trouble since TBP, etc are taking down his apologies?', my IANAL, from the hip answer would be 'no'. They are third parties and not beholden to any court order. All Ettin has to do is make the good-faith attempt to publicly apologize.

I don't know Zak from fucking Adam and I don't really care except insofar as I have become terribly suspicious of conjured accusations suddenly appearing, lacking any background, often years old.


I agree that TBP as a 3rd party can't be forced to do something it doesn't want to, but I think the situation with Ettin is more than hi making the attempt, but that he has to be able to show that he made the attempt. It's been mentioned before that he can probably do so with screenshots if he thought to take them, which isn't something I had originally considered. Whether or not he did is something I guess only he knows. The way his apology post was so completely memory-holed on TBP kind of surprised me. I would've thought they would have locked that thread after appending some statement on their part on how they thought Ettin's apology was bogus, etc. I can't recall a time when they just completely removed a thread. I've seen times when they've edited out content that broke their rules, but even then the url remains and it is noted on their board for infractions.

I think both Zak and Ettin are assholes of one kind or another, and I'm really not rooting for either. I guess I'm a little bit weirded out as to how completely TBP has tried to erase that Ettin's post ever occurred especially considering some of the other posts they've left up which had actually broken forum rules in very egregious manners.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Bunch on April 14, 2020, 12:46:48 PM
Quote from: wmarshal;1126820
I agree that TBP as a 3rd party can't be forced to do something it doesn't want to, but I think the situation with Ettin is more than hi making the attempt, but that he has to be able to show that he made the attempt. It's been mentioned before that he can probably do so with screenshots if he thought to take them, which isn't something I had originally considered. Whether or not he did is something I guess only he knows. The way his apology post was so completely memory-holed on TBP kind of surprised me. I would've thought they would have locked that thread after appending some statement on their part on how they thought Ettin's apology was bogus, etc. I can't recall a time when they just completely removed a thread. I've seen times when they've edited out content that broke their rules, but even then the url remains and it is noted on their board for infractions.

I think both Zak and Ettin are assholes of one kind or another, and I'm really not rooting for either. I guess I'm a little bit weirded out as to how completely TBP has tried to erase that Ettin's post ever occurred especially considering some of the other posts they've left up which had actually broken forum rules in very egregious manners.

It does undermine the statement they can't really delete all the posts from a given user who wants to delete their account because reasons.  They just demonstrated they can do if they don't like the content.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: wmarshal on April 14, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Bunch;1126822
It does undermine the statement they can't really delete all the posts from a given user who wants to delete their account because reasons.  They just demonstrated they can do if they don't like the content.


It does. Maybe people can ask TBP for the "Ettin Apology Special" if they want their account/posts deleted. Of course the TBP in true 1984 fashion could just pretend to have no idea what they're talking about.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 15, 2020, 09:59:41 AM
Quote from: wmarshal;1126827
It does. Maybe people can ask TBP for the "Ettin Apology Special" if they want their account/posts deleted. Of course the TBP in true 1984 fashion could just pretend to have no idea what they're talking about.

Once again, because it bears repeating: sandbox theory. TBP's admin can do whatever they like, and short of someone buying the website out from under them, no one can really hold them to account. Oh, we can treat them with contempt (and we SHOULD, considering their stinking hypocrisy). But there is no one we can file a complaint with to get some of those mods ejected from their positions for their rampant idiocy.

That being said, I find it fascinating how busy they are dropping the hammer on their own posters.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Bunch on April 15, 2020, 10:55:03 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1126922
Once again, because it bears repeating: sandbox theory. TBP's admin can do whatever they like, and short of someone buying the website out from under them, no one can really hold them to account. Oh, we can treat them with contempt (and we SHOULD, considering their stinking hypocrisy). But there is no one we can file a complaint with to get some of those mods ejected from their positions for their rampant idiocy.

That being said, I find it fascinating how busy they are dropping the hammer on their own posters.


Technically it's always been possible. There nothing stopping them from deleting items in a database.  They're correct it would make some conversations ridiculous if all you could see was someone responding without and knowledge of context for what they're responding to.

On banning. They've successfully purged most people who disagree with them. Now all that's left is to purge is the assholes they agree with, people who think they aren't going far enough  and people who are just plain too negative to spend time around.  Of course at that point why talk politics at all?
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: CarlD. on April 15, 2020, 06:10:45 PM
Quote from: Bunch;1126932
Technically it's always been possible. There nothing stopping them from deleting items in a database.  They're correct it would make some conversations ridiculous if all you could see was someone responding without and knowledge of context for what they're responding to.

On banning. They've successfully purged most people who disagree with them. Now all that's left is to purge is the assholes they agree with, people who think they aren't going far enough  and people who are just plain too negative to spend time around.  Of course at that point why talk politics at all?

I've wondered why they don't just ban the topic all together for quite awhile. They more or less have for a pretty significant portion of by making creating threads on the US primaries, possibly US politics Mod only or only with their express permission (I forget which it is now).
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: PencilBoy99 on April 15, 2020, 06:16:11 PM
What happened to Demon City.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Armchair Gamer on April 15, 2020, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: CarlD.;1126985
I've wondered why they don't just ban the topic all together for quite awhile. They more or less have for a pretty significant portion of by making creating threads on the US primaries, possibly US politics Mod only or only with their express permission (I forget which it is now).

  Because they are convinced that they provide a uniquely safe and welcoming space for a large portion of their membership.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Kyle Aaron on April 15, 2020, 10:22:01 PM
Quote from: wmarshal;1126820
The way his apology post was so completely memory-holed on TBP kind of surprised me.
Nah. It's because of the association with legal action. They don't want anything to do with that. It was the same on bodybuilding.com. There was a guy who livestreamed his overdose suicide, the thread contained such gems as "do it phaggot". The mass killer Elliot Rodgers posted there under the name SupremeGentleman. And the forum developed an obsession with an underage instachick, "would plough, don't care what age," which made the news. All this and more, threads deleted - but all "soft delete", keeping them backstage out of public view, because one time they did a hard delete then got served by the FBI...

I was a mod on bodybuilding.com for a couple of years. I was demodded and shadowbanned (where you don't get a ban message, but just can't post or PM any more) with no reason given.

A big forum, it's all the same. Just like a large corporation and a government department have the same kind of obstructive bureaucracy. It's just people in large enough groups, and small stakes making for nasty politics. Same shit, different shovel.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: ArrozConLeche on April 16, 2020, 01:49:18 PM
TBP couldn't completely memory hole it:

http://archive.is/7PM5Q
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Spinachcat on April 16, 2020, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1126922
That being said, I find it fascinating how busy they are dropping the hammer on their own posters.


My dad grew up under communism. While the rhetoric is always about how bad the enemy is, the enemy is out of their reach, so that leaves those who can be punished to be punished.

It's also why THIS forum must always be dedicated to "freeze peach" and never become an echo chamber. Every echo chamber devolves into purity tests and the eventual purity death spiral.
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on May 10, 2020, 01:04:25 PM
I noticed lots of threads lately about big deal RPG people who y'all think suck who, by wild coincidence, also are extremely guilty of defamation against me. I figured I'd mention that, though we disagree about many things, every RPG dollar I make (http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-store.html) goes toward legal action against people who are widely despised on this forum.

So buy something (http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-store.html).

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1126989
What happened to Demon City.

It's in layout. Every 2 weeks to a month Cheng sends us spreads.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4458[/ATTACH]
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: PencilBoy99 on May 10, 2020, 04:19:21 PM
I am very interested in Demon City!
Title: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on May 10, 2020, 04:40:23 PM
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1129500
I am very interested in Demon City!


It will be amazing. It had better be, I suppose.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: yabaziou on January 11, 2021, 04:58:29 PM
Late to the party, but Lord, it is good to read that Ettin get his ass quick in real life in a legal way !
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: BronzeDragon on January 11, 2021, 10:04:26 PM
I see what you did there.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Theory of Games on January 11, 2021, 11:01:09 PM
Yes.

We know the SJWs wronged Zak. We know.

Let's move on.

I want to see your new products to the hobby. Not the overdone contributions we already have.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: myleftnut on January 11, 2021, 11:32:36 PM
Oh not this shit again.  Release your latest book.  After that release another one. Otherwise nobody cares about your drama.  There are no celebrities in this hobby bitch. 
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Razor 007 on January 12, 2021, 03:47:51 AM
That's some rich reality, right there.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 12, 2021, 06:09:04 AM
Oh not this shit again.  Release your latest book.  After that release another one. Otherwise nobody cares about your drama.  There are no celebrities in this hobby bitch.

If you want me to see the movie, you have to wait for the theater to stop being on fire. Or maybe even help put it out.

I appreciate that all you want to be (or should have to be) is an audience member, but we have an arsonist problem right now, and I am the only fireman. It's not fair, but it is the situation.

So: be helpful or be both very patient and ready to be disappointed for a long time.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 12, 2021, 06:09:56 AM
Yes.

We know the SJWs wronged Zak. We know.

Let's move on.

I want to see your new products to the hobby. Not the overdone contributions we already have.

See above. There won't be any new prodcuts for a good long time.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: yabaziou on January 12, 2021, 06:27:06 AM
I see what you did there.

I did what I did and would do it again, if I am given the chance to, but I am not one of Zachary Smith’s bots (which he might have or not, not my life, not my problem) and I do not have any interest in his future endeavors.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: GnomeWorks on January 12, 2021, 12:59:51 PM
Then why would you necro the thread and risk summoning Shitmuffin?
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: yabaziou on January 12, 2021, 02:47:59 PM
Then why would you necro the thread and risk summoning Shitmuffin?

Because I am a naughty, naughty boy who enjoys stirring the pot and never get bored to see those who are smeared by it !
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 12, 2021, 03:16:18 PM
If anyone believes they have a legitimate grievance against me, you are most welcome to say what that is, and show your receipts.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2021, 04:11:58 PM
If anyone believes they have a legitimate grievance against me, you are most welcome to say what that is, and show your receipts.
You clearly haven't made enough diversity hires quit their careers as RPG writers.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Spinachcat on January 12, 2021, 05:54:45 PM
There won't be any new products for a good long time.

This is unfortunate.

Looking forward to Demon City when it arrives.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: RPGPundit on January 12, 2021, 07:10:40 PM
Oh not this shit again.  Release your latest book.  After that release another one. Otherwise nobody cares about your drama.  There are no celebrities in this hobby bitch.

If you want me to see the movie, you have to wait for the theater to stop being on fire. Or maybe even help put it out.

I appreciate that all you want to be (or should have to be) is an audience member, but we have an arsonist problem right now, and I am the only fireman. It's not fair, but it is the situation.

Bitch, please. You're like a fireman who demanded that all the other firemen come save him when he got near the flames, and then later told the rest that they deserved to die in the flames.

You're a champion of nothing but your own interests, and you don't believe in Free Speech.  Again, you'd desperately wish to be part of SJW cool-kids club if only they let you in.  But they never will, because you did porn.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: David Johansen on January 12, 2021, 07:18:38 PM
We need to quit fighting amongst ourselves and fight the real enemy!

The Jewish Liberation Front?

No, the Romans!

Oh, them.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 12, 2021, 07:27:16 PM
I stand by the things I believe. I'm not going to join some dumb right-wing crusade just because you dislike some of the people I dislike.

If you use "sjw" unironically I super don't want your help. But if there are better people than that here: Hi.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Wicked Woodpecker of West on January 12, 2021, 08:12:25 PM
SJWs are using SJW unironically these days, so *shrug emoji*
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Brad on January 12, 2021, 08:37:01 PM
I stand by the things I believe. I'm not going to join some dumb right-wing crusade just because you dislike some of the people I dislike.

If you use "sjw" unironically I super don't want your help. But if there are better people than that here: Hi.

You stand by things you believe such as manufacturing narratives about people who you don’t like then trying to destroy them on the internet. Right?

You’re just another version of JMal.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 12, 2021, 08:49:16 PM
I stand by the things I believe. I'm not going to join some dumb right-wing crusade just because you dislike some of the people I dislike.

If you use "sjw" unironically I super don't want your help. But if there are better people than that here: Hi.

You stand by things you believe such as manufacturing narratives about people who you don’t like then trying to destroy them on the internet. Right?

You’re just another version of JMal.

Name such a person and provide receipts for this claim, Bradley.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: consolcwby on January 12, 2021, 09:50:19 PM
I... don't really understand this thread.
But I read it.
So, is it that if I buy something from the OP, he will take legal actions against someone I don't like?...
You know, I really never could stand that guy that made Theatrix.
If I buy a $10 item, what can I expect?
A nasty letter fom a derranged lawyer? (I hope!)
Or maybe a cryptic invitation to an ARG that already finished??
I'm poor right now, so what can I expect for my $$$?
 :(
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: RPGPundit on January 12, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
I stand by the things I believe. I'm not going to join some dumb right-wing crusade just because you dislike some of the people I dislike.

If you use "sjw" unironically I super don't want your help. But if there are better people than that here: Hi.

Is defending other authors than yourself from being censored or blacklisted a "right wing crusade"? Because that's what I'm talking about here.

You think it's perfectly fine to censor people you don't like.  You just don't think it's fine for someone to censor YOU.  Which means you aren't really defending anyone but yourself.

Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 12, 2021, 11:09:07 PM
Lying isn't protected speech.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: RPGPundit on January 13, 2021, 12:03:12 AM
I have no idea what you're referring to. I'm talking about other people who have faced blacklisting or censorship campaigns exactly like you and I have. But who's politics you just didn't like. Or that you just took as another opportunity to try to ingratiate yourself to the radical leftists in the hobby, to no avail.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 12:08:24 AM
I have no idea what you're referring to.

Then ask.

A person who likes free speech should also like lucid, understandable conversation. If not: what's it for?

Quote
I'm talking about other people who have faced blacklisting or censorship campaigns exactly like you and I have. But who's politics you just didn't like.

Literally no RPG author I am aware of--certainly not you or I--experienced censorship. I experienced people lying.

If you define "censorship" as a private platform being unwilling to publish your stuff, then:  My cousin has written a book of poems about horses. Print and distribute her book, Pundit, or else you are a censor.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Doc Sammy on January 13, 2021, 12:12:09 AM
Zak, if you weren't already in the left's crosshairs for failing one of their purity tests, you'd be brigading alongside all the trannies/trenders, anarchists, and commies on RPG.net

Corporate censorship is still censorship, especially here in the age of corporatist monopolies and oligopolies.




Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 12:17:11 AM
A serious accusation, Samuel:

...still be brigading alongside all the trannies and commies on RPG.net
(emphasis mine)

Provide evidence of me brigading someone on RPGnet.

This is one of the few things I haven't done with trans people and communists by my side.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Doc Sammy on January 13, 2021, 12:17:49 AM
Accidental double post. Delete this
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Doc Sammy on January 13, 2021, 12:18:15 AM
Fuck, the forum's new formatting is tricky to get used to.

Anywho, Zak. Let's be real here, you're a communist and a punk and the only reason you cozied up to Pundit is because you got brigaded out by RPG.net because you dared to disagree with one of the "trans lesbian" (AKA straight male autogynephile predator) mods and they decided to smear you and excommunicate you.

If you weren't already banished, you'd definitely be brigading against Pundit and preaching for corporate censorship. Maybe you didn't brigade before, but I'm pretty sure you would have given the opportunity based on your behaviors and posts.

Okay, the evidence is circumstantial but given that you're a literal punk anarcho-communist, we're probably in "Scorpion and the Frog" territory.

Then again, I'm just a mentally ill wacko who saw the moralist Marxist and anarchist left take over damn near everything, so feel free to invalidate any opinions I have (as I'm sure you will)

I'm not going to fight you but I wanted to express my disappointment at you and get my two cents in.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 02:00:20 AM
Maybe you didn't brigade before, but I'm pretty sure you would have given the opportunity based on your behaviors and posts.

Find the "posts" and "behaviors" which indicate I would brigade someone on RPGnet.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 13, 2021, 07:03:21 AM
All this bickering is great... But where's my copy of demon city more importantly?

Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Brad on January 13, 2021, 09:00:17 AM
Name such a person and provide receipts for this claim, Bradley.

1) My name isn't "Bradley".
2) LOL if you think I'm going to waste my fucking time trying to dig up all the crap you've spewed over 10+ years. I have better things to do with my life. Have fun being a degenerate fuck.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Brad on January 13, 2021, 09:02:28 AM
I have no idea what you're referring to. I'm talking about other people who have faced blacklisting or censorship campaigns exactly like you and I have. But who's politics you just didn't like. Or that you just took as another opportunity to try to ingratiate yourself to the radical leftists in the hobby, to no avail.

Why are you even entertaining this clown? He's been trained well in the ways of Marxist gaslighting; no matter WHAT evidence you provide, he will find some way to twist it so you're wrong.

100% serious: your OSR stuff is much more usable and interesting. Zak's crap is just art projects published under the guise of roleplaying supplements and the only reason people like them is because of the aesthetic, not the content.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 09:11:45 AM
So, great example:

Since:

-lying isn't protected speech, and

-Brad was asked for proof point-blank and didn't provide it, and

-burden of proof is on the person introducing the claim

...you could go "Ok, Brad is a liar, and is banned" and erase Brad's comments and that would not be censorship.


All this bickering is great... But where's my copy of demon city more importantly?

If your idea of fun is the whole "Oh, look, RPG people disagreeing ont he internet" thing then you won't like it, so don't worry about it.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 13, 2021, 09:15:32 AM
so don't worry about it.

That's fine and dandy...

But as I backed the KS, and PAID for the product, I'd like to know when I can expect it. So I will have to 'worry' about it.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
so don't worry about it.

That's fine and dandy...

But as I backed the KS, and PAID for the product, I'd like to know when I can expect it. So I will have to 'worry' about it.

#metoo but, if you've been watching the updates, you know I already did my bit and it's in layout. So I know little more than you.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 13, 2021, 09:22:46 AM
#metoo but, if you've been watching the updates, you know I already did my bit and it's in layout. So I know little more than you.

Well, that inspires confidence...

I can't say I'll be the first inline for your next kickstarter.





Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 09:27:54 AM
Quote

Well, that inspires confidence...

I can't say I'll be the first inline for your next kickstarter.

Oh well, I was not running or funding this kickstarter, so I have little influence. But there likely won't be another kickstarter ever again.

If I''m ever in a position to do a physical book again, crowdfunding will either be totally impossible or totally unnecessary.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: VisionStorm on January 13, 2021, 09:34:25 AM
Lying isn't protected speech.

Yes it is. It's right there within the 1st amendment. Anyone can lie about you and nothing will be done to them, unless you can prove damages in a court of law, which is extremely difficult and requires you to provide evidence that their lies could be used to specifically identify you and that you also suffered measurable damage (i.e. lost money and/or were physically attacked, etc. as a result). And if you're attacked or lost money because someone lied about a group you may have been affiliated with, but they didn't identify you specifically, you get nothing.

Not saying it's right or wrong. Just saying that lying is literally protected speech.

PS: Also, yes, getting someone banned off a "PrIvAtE pLaTfOrM" is censorship. "But...it's PrIvAtE pLaTfOrM" does not make it not censorship. It just means that people like to suck the dicks of corporations like fucking retards.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 09:38:09 AM
Lying isn't protected speech.

Yes it is. It's right there within the 1st amendment. Anyone can lie about you and nothing will be done to them, unless you can prove damages in a court of law,

Oh, that's not true at all. That's not even consistently true within the US.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Mishihari on January 13, 2021, 09:48:19 AM
"Maxim 29:  The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less."

Not going to buy a thing.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: RPGPundit on January 13, 2021, 10:14:24 AM


100% serious: your OSR stuff is much more usable and interesting. Zak's crap is just art projects published under the guise of roleplaying supplements and the only reason people like them is because of the aesthetic, not the content.

Well, thank you, I appreciate that!
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: RPGPundit on January 13, 2021, 10:16:19 AM
Quote

Well, that inspires confidence...

I can't say I'll be the first inline for your next kickstarter.

Oh well, I was not running or funding this kickstarter, so I have little influence. But there likely won't be another kickstarter ever again.


And here's why I've never done a Kickstarter and am unlikely to ever do one.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 13, 2021, 10:35:44 AM
And here's why I've never done a Kickstarter and am unlikely to ever do one.

In all fairness Pundit... If you did a KS I very much doubt it would end up like Zak's. Which had an estimated delivery date of June 2019 (if I remember correctly).

I don't think anyone really minds 'flexible deadlines' when it comes to RPG KS. It's only when they start going way off target people start to get pissed off. The second edition of Kult was another example of this. Grrrr.....

Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 13, 2021, 10:39:23 AM
And here's why I've never done a Kickstarter and am unlikely to ever do one.

In all fairness Pundit... If you did a KS I very much doubt it would end up like Zak's. Which had an estimated delivery date of June 2019 (if I remember correctly).

I don't think anyone really minds 'flexible deadlines' when it comes to RPG KS. It's only when they start going way off target people start to get pissed off. The second edition of Kult was another example of this. Grrrr.....
I wonder how Zak feels to find himself in the same 'late' boat as Alex de Campi.

You know, between all the bullshit of last year, I don't think anyone would begrudge things running late. I'm STILL waiting for the System Shock remake, myself. But y'know... there's comes a point where you gotta put up or shut up.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 10:42:44 AM
Quote
I wonder how Zak feels to find

See this is the point of actual free speech: you don't have to wonder. You can ask the person.

I don't know who Alex is, but Demon City is the least of my worries. If it were up to me it'd be out, but I'm not running the kickstarter and I know it'll come out and I know the work is good.

This is how it always works on basically every project--Maze of the Blue Medusa, Red & Pleasant Land: I turn over the stuff on time, graphic design takes forever.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Eirikrautha on January 13, 2021, 10:53:34 AM
Lying isn't protected speech.

Yes it is. It's right there within the 1st amendment. Anyone can lie about you and nothing will be done to them, unless you can prove damages in a court of law,

Oh, that's not true at all. That's not even consistently true within the US.
Not only is it true, it's red-letter law.  And it was enshrined into law (because the folks who did so were apparently wiser than today's bunch) because "lying" is a fundamentally subjective standard.  Anyone who has read a "fact check" done in the media knows that "lie" can mean anything from "doesn't interpret the facts the way that I do" to "fails to mention this other point."  That's why "lying" is a stupid and irrelevant charge.  What is important is whether or not what someone says is factual (and this is the reason why a factual statement cannot be legally defamatory, once again by red-letter law).  So if you want to tell me what someone said is not factual, I'll listen.  But your whole "Brad isn't able to provide statements to my standard and is therefore lying" mental masturbation earlier in the thread is the textbook example why no one with your mentality should ever be in a position of authority (or listened to by anyone in a position of authority), ever.   
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 10:56:18 AM
Quote
Not only is it true, it's red-letter law.

Nope. The goal posts (read up) are at "it's legal to lie unless you can prove damages". That's not true at all.

You can google, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: David Johansen on January 13, 2021, 11:01:20 AM
At some point people will realize that the buildings on both sides of the street are on fire and the fire fighters are pumping kerosene onto the structures.  Then the brass dog machines will run down the moderates and take their books from their cold dead hands.  There are no winners in the culture wars.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Brad on January 13, 2021, 11:02:25 AM
Name such a person and provide receipts for this claim, Bradley.

So, great example:

Since:

-lying isn't protected speech, and

-Bradley was asked for proof point-blank and didn't provide it, and

-burden of proof is on the person introducing the claim

...you could go "Ok, Bradley is a liar, and is banned" and erase Bradley's comments and that would not be censorship.


You're an absolute faggot. Thanks for proving why no one should entertain you or even respond to you in any form. The level of stupidity in your followup is only overshadowed by the complete lack of self-awareness. It'd be amusing if it wasn't so annoying.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Brad on January 13, 2021, 11:05:59 AM
Well, thank you, I appreciate that!

You ever going to release a second volume of the Old School Companion? I remember you mentioning it in the past, been on the look out.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 11:08:42 AM
Quote
You're an absolute faggot.

Obviously it's bad to use slurs, but if you'd be willing to sign an affidavit to that effect, asserting that I am (as you assert) a complete homosexual, that would be very legally useful.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Brad on January 13, 2021, 11:13:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/S3Sy79d.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/CDsavvy.gif)
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: VisionStorm on January 13, 2021, 11:40:05 AM
Quote
Not only is it true, it's red-letter law.

Nope. The goal posts (read up) are at "it's legal to lie unless you can prove damages". That's not true at all.

You can google, I'm sure.

Nah, the goal posts are "lying isn't protected speech", when it literally is, outside some very limited exceptions, like defamation (which requires you to prove damages and that you were specifically mentioned) and lying to the feds (which I forgot about when writing that post). Outside of that all other forms of lying are legally protected, that I'm aware of. And I might be wrong (maybe I missed another exception), but in the VAST majority of cases people can lie their ass off and absolutely NOTHING would happen to them--they can even profit from it--and if that wasn't the case there wouldn't even be a mainstream media, or even alternative media or social media platforms, and every country in the world would just be a prison camp.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: GnomeWorks on January 13, 2021, 11:42:14 AM
Oh good, you people got the jackass on his "if you say anything negative about me its a lie and all liars are objectively evil and worthless" bit.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 11:43:53 AM
Quote
Outside of that all other forms of lying are legally protected, that I'm aware of.

Well you are now being informed that you are not aware of some important exceptions. You don't have to run straight into this: it's ok to admit maybe someone who's been doing little other than dealing with defamation law for two years might know more than you on the subject.

You can just go "Ok, maybe, I spoke too soon. I don't really care about this that much, bye."
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 11:45:36 AM
Oh good, you people got the jackass on his "if you say anything negative about me its a lie

I have never said that.

For example: I am a terrible judge of character. That's negative--and not a lie.

I have just proved you are lying. Or--at the very least, misinformed and oddly aggressive about it.

Quote
and all liars are objectively evil and worthless" bit.

I am fascinated by your Liar Rights' Activism. Please tell us all more about this philosophy.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Chris24601 on January 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
My reaction to this thread...
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/129823b09df234d7a277df682504d5b5/tenor.gif?itemid=7694184)
... now back to my writing.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 12:10:55 PM
Now that we've gone through a few rounds of put-up-or-shut-up and folks have shown a lack of put-up, I am also happy to go back to what I was doing.

If anyone has any questions or seriously thinks any of the concerns raised so far have substance, as usual, contact: zakzsmith AT hawtmayle DAWT calm and I will be happy to entertin them.

Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: GameDaddy on January 13, 2021, 12:12:38 PM
#metoo but, if you've been watching the updates, you know I already did my bit and it's in layout. So I know little more than you.

Eh, Well... you seem off track. Are you here because your Kickstarter has delivered?... If not, I'm confused. I see you say now you are not in Charge of the Kickstarter, and are confident it will be delivered soon. That would be good. Do you have a specific date for that?... becuase it is 2021 now.

If it has been delivered, why are we not talking about cool new gaming stuff, ...instead of hashing over old disagreements?

I have been rebuilding my Classic Games Collection. Since Christmas I have purchased Cross of Iron, and Crescendo of Doom, as well as Imperium, Dark Nebula, Mayday, Caesar:Alesia, and the Melee microgame. Just need Advanced Melee and Wizard now. Thinking about rebuilding my Europa collection, need to wait for the tax return though becuase Drang Nach Osten, and Unentschieden are pretty pricey.

I'm running two Original D&D games online every other week, and have setup to run five one-shots for GaryCon in March, Two original D&D, Traveller, Gamma World, and have to give the new baby a spin, and will be running Green Ronin's The Expanse set right after the Ring Gate is opened to colonization.

 
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: GnomeWorks on January 13, 2021, 12:14:04 PM
I am fascinated by your Liar Rights' Activism. Please tell us all more about this philosophy.

Don't speak to me directly again, you fucking narcissistic degenerate assclown. You are literally insane, and I would bill you for taking up my time if I thought you were capable of acknowledging other people as people.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: yabaziou on January 13, 2021, 01:43:59 PM
If anyone believes they have a legitimate grievance against me, you are most welcome to say what that is, and show your receipts.

I do ask 3 questions for you, Zachary Smith :

1 / How been an accessory to the impersonating of an actual person with whom you have a bad relationship i e : the Shannon Appecline stuff on Reddit, can be an objectively good thing ?

2 / How accusing a person with whom you a bad relationship (you accusing John Harper of stealing people with Blade in the Dark Kickstarter) with any kind of proof which would secure a criminal or civil condemnation before an actual court of law can be objectively an good thing ?

3 / How slapping a woman with whom you had a tryst after just asking her if she is into kinky things, quite a nebulous terms, and receive a yes to the question and not an yes to  consent be slapped by you can be an objectively a good thing.

Those are my questions to you, for which quite eager to have yours answers since I sincerely wish to be enlightened by you, who claims that he is an actual good man.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 01:50:37 PM

1 / How been an accessory to the impersonating of an actual person with whom you have a bad relationship i e : the Shannon Appecline stuff on Reddit, can be an objectively good thing ?

I didn't impersonate anyone.  If you know for a fact I did: sign an affadavit to that effect and give it to anyone you think might have legal use of it.


Quote
2 / How accusing a person with whom you a bad relationship (you accusing John Harper of stealing people with Blade in the Dark Kickstarter) with any kind of proof which would secure a criminal or civil condemnation before an actual court of law can be objectively an good thing ?

Harper was objectively proven to be dishonest before--he;d admitted to trolling and has made objectively false claims later. So, in that light, the fact he didn't spend his kickstarter money to fulfill the kickstarter on time was judged by me to be (on the balance of evidence) likely. Thus I called him "a kickstarter thief". He's guilty of two worse crimes.

I am happy to accept that he may just lack integrity and admit there's a zone of uncertainty around it.
Quote

3 / How slapping a woman with whom you had a tryst after just asking her if she is into kinky things, quite a nebulous terms, and receive a yes to the question and not an yes to  consent be slapped by you can be an objectively a good thing.

That didn't occur. If you know for a fact I did: sign an affadavit to that effect and give it to anyone you think might have legal use of it.

I'd also note that this whole thread--which you yourself necro'ed starts with someone who was forced to defend their claims of alleged "abuse" by me (including things you asked about here) in court admitting they were lying when they were asked to put up or shut up.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: yabaziou on January 13, 2021, 02:16:43 PM

1 / How been an accessory to the impersonating of an actual person with whom you have a bad relationship i e : the Shannon Appecline stuff on Reddit, can be an objectively good thing ?

I didn't impersonate anyone.  If you know for a fact I did: sign an affadavit to that effect and give it to anyone you think might have legal use of it.


Quote
2 / How accusing a person with whom you a bad relationship (you accusing John Harper of stealing people with Blade in the Dark Kickstarter) with any kind of proof which would secure a criminal or civil condemnation before an actual court of law can be objectively an good thing ?

Harper was objectively proven to be dishonest before--he;d admitted to trolling and has made objectively false claims later. So, in that light, the fact he didn't spend his kickstarter money to fulfill the kickstarter on time was judged by me to be (on the balance of evidence) likely. Thus I called him "a kickstarter thief". He's guilty of two worse crimes.

I am happy to accept that he may just lack integrity and admit there's a zone of uncertainty around it.
Quote

3 / How slapping a woman with whom you had a tryst after just asking her if she is into kinky things, quite a nebulous terms, and receive a yes to the question and not an yes to  consent be slapped by you can be an objectively a good thing.

That didn't occur. If you know for a fact I did: sign an affadavit to that effect and give it to anyone you think might have legal use of it.

Lol, I fucking know it ! You did not answer my first question : I did ask you being an accessory ex : having lending your internet connection and your laptop, to the person who did impersonate Appelcline on Reddit, Therefore I would ask you again.

For the 2nd question, you are a terrible person for writing the obscene and abject thing you had written. Nobody on this planet should be accused of third count of crime of felon because he had eventually commit 2 counts of another crime. That is not an actual lawful and good system of justice works, that how the Inquisition did work. You should really learn about law, good and modern criminal justice before even dating to write this absolute travesty of Justice !

For the 3rd, just plead the 5th amendment of your constitution which allow to lawfully and legally to do not respond to my question.

Thanks you dearly and sincerely, I was enlightened !
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 13, 2021, 02:21:54 PM
Quote
You did not answer my first question : I did ask you being an accessory ex : having lending your internet connection and your laptop, to the person who did impersonate Appelcline on Reddit, Therefore I would ask you again.

Oh, let me clarify: nobody impersonated Shannon Appelcline, that I know of.

Quote
For the 2nd question, you are a terrible person for writing the obscene and abject thing you had written. Nobody on this planet should be accused of third count of crime of felon because he had eventually commit 2 counts of another crime. That is not an actual lawful and good system of justice works, that how the Inquisition did work. You should really learn about law, good and modern criminal justice before even dating to write this absolute travesty of Justice !

1. Are you making a moral or a criminal accusation?
2. Nothing I accused Harper of is a felon. I understand english is not your first language--that's part of the problem, probably.
3. You've heard the Clash song "Police are thieves"? or "Capitalism is theft"? My bases are covered, legally and morally: I think Harper had a moral obligation to do what he said and spend money to do it if he had to. You can disagree, but you can't say I lied.

Quote
For the 3rd, just plead the 5th amendment of your constitution which allow to lawfully and legally to do not respond to my question.

I did respond: the thing you claimed happened did not occur. This is a response.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Mistwell on January 13, 2021, 02:27:55 PM
I have no idea what you're referring to. I'm talking about other people who have faced blacklisting or censorship campaigns exactly like you and I have. But who's politics you just didn't like. Or that you just took as another opportunity to try to ingratiate yourself to the radical leftists in the hobby, to no avail.

Why are you even entertaining this clown? He's been trained well in the ways of Marxist gaslighting; no matter WHAT evidence you provide, he will find some way to twist it so you're wrong.

100% serious: your OSR stuff is much more usable and interesting. Zak's crap is just art projects published under the guise of roleplaying supplements and the only reason people like them is because of the aesthetic, not the content.

I like both RPGPundit's RPG content and Zak's RPG content, and find them both usable and interesting (and if money were more available these days I'd be buying both of their content more often). In fact I don't much like Zak's aesthetic approach - but I do find a lot of his content of high utility. Vornheim: The Complete City Kit is highly useful to me sometimes, for example. And not because of the artwork, which isn't much in line with my personal artistic tastes.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Spike on January 13, 2021, 02:45:11 PM
Note to self: If I ever need a few days... who knows, maybe weeks, of Internet Laffs all I need to do is necro this thread, or any other Zak S. thread, which will automatically function as a 'Summon Obnoxious Idiot' spell, and I can watch the entire fucking forum degenerate into a tarball of the most hilariously misguided semantic debates.

Where is my :chef kiss: emoji?
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: yabaziou on January 13, 2021, 03:01:46 PM
Quote
You did not answer my first question : I did ask you being an accessory ex : having lending your internet connection and your laptop, to the person who did impersonate Appelcline on Reddit, Therefore I would ask you again.

Oh, let me clarify: nobody impersonated Shannon Appelcline, that I know of.

Quote
For the 2nd question, you are a terrible person for writing the obscene and abject thing you had written. Nobody on this planet should be accused of third count of crime of felon because he had eventually commit 2 counts of another crime. That is not an actual lawful and good system of justice works, that how the Inquisition did work. You should really learn about law, good and modern criminal justice before even dating to write this absolute travesty of Justice !

1. Are you making a moral or a criminal accusation?
2. Nothing I accused Harper of is a felon. I understand english is not your first language--that's part of the problem, probably.
3. You've heard the Clash song "Police are thieves"? or "Capitalism is theft"? My bases are covered, legally and morally: I think Harper had a moral obligation to do what he said and spend money to do it if he had to. You can disagree, but you can't say I lied.

Quote
For the 3rd, just plead the 5th amendment of your constitution which allow to lawfully and legally to do not respond to my question.

I did respond: the thing you claimed happened did not occur. This is a response.

Question 1 : ok, I have to provide an actual link of any claim of accessory to impersonate Shannon Appleclibz.

Question 2  : ok, I have to provide an actual quote of you calling John Harper a thief or any paraphrasing of this word.

Question 3 : ok, I am not a member of LA district attorney office but a private and non USA citizen.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Valatar on January 13, 2021, 08:55:53 PM
Note to self: If I ever need a few days... who knows, maybe weeks, of Internet Laffs all I need to do is necro this thread, or any other Zak S. thread, which will automatically function as a 'Summon Obnoxious Idiot' spell, and I can watch the entire fucking forum degenerate into a tarball of the most hilariously misguided semantic debates.

Where is my :chef kiss: emoji?

dereksmartdereksmartdereksmart
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: RPGPundit on January 13, 2021, 09:37:11 PM
Well, thank you, I appreciate that!

You ever going to release a second volume of the Old School Companion? I remember you mentioning it in the past, been on the look out.

Yes, it absolutely will happen. It will undoubtedly be the next compilation, either that or a Medieval Adventures compilation. It will no doubt come out this year, but who knows when.  Some time after The Invisible College, I presume.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Doc Sammy on January 13, 2021, 10:30:58 PM
Oh good, you people got the jackass on his "if you say anything negative about me its a lie

I have never said that.

For example: I am a terrible judge of character. That's negative--and not a lie.

I have just proved you are lying. Or--at the very least, misinformed and oddly aggressive about it.

Quote
and all liars are objectively evil and worthless" bit.

I am fascinated by your Liar Rights' Activism. Please tell us all more about this philosophy.

The Clash sucks

That is all.



Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 13, 2021, 10:40:14 PM
The Clash sucks
That is all.

Absolutely Doc! About as punk as Mike Pence...
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on January 14, 2021, 01:08:57 AM
dereksmartdereksmartdereksmart

Haha.  A very dangerous summoning only attempted by those who do not fear death.

Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 14, 2021, 08:20:47 AM
Derek Smart vs Zak S. We can put it on pay per view. Raise enough money to buy Pundit some new RPG books :D
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: ThatChrisGuy on January 14, 2021, 09:49:57 AM
Note to self: If I ever need a few days... who knows, maybe weeks, of Internet Laffs all I need to do is necro this thread, or any other Zak S. thread, which will automatically function as a 'Summon Obnoxious Idiot' spell, and I can watch the entire fucking forum degenerate into a tarball of the most hilariously misguided semantic debates.

Where is my :chef kiss: emoji?

dereksmartdereksmartdereksmart

Cleve?
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Brad on January 14, 2021, 11:06:13 AM
I like both RPGPundit's RPG content and Zak's RPG content, and find them both usable and interesting (and if money were more available these days I'd be buying both of their content more often). In fact I don't much like Zak's aesthetic approach - but I do find a lot of his content of high utility. Vornheim: The Complete City Kit is highly useful to me sometimes, for example. And not because of the artwork, which isn't much in line with my personal artistic tastes.

You're certainly allowed (LOL ALLOWED!) to like both; I still maintain Pundit's is vastly more useful, but then again I have no idea what sort of games you run. The usability of the material in no way undermines the fact that Zak S is a narcissistic douchelord supreme whose emotional development is barely above toddler. Pundit can also be an asshole of sorts, but I've NEVER seen him try to censor anyone or manufacture claims of perceived slights and try to destroy people because he doesn't like them.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 14, 2021, 11:15:23 AM
Pundit also does'nt insult his customers...
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Jaeger on January 14, 2021, 12:18:14 PM
The Clash sucks
That is all.

Absolutely Doc! About as punk as Mike Pence...

100% Correct.

Never let it be said that on the RPGsite we shy away from the Truth.



Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Doc Sammy on January 14, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
The Clash sucks
That is all.

Absolutely Doc! About as punk as Mike Pence...

Punk sucks in general.

Especially the "real" punk bans. Fuck that pretentious bullshit.

But that's just my personal opinion, so feel free to disagree
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 14, 2021, 06:55:55 PM
so feel free to disagree

I would but I'm too lazy... Knock yourself out!




Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: moonsweeper on January 14, 2021, 07:03:02 PM
The Clash sucks
That is all.

Absolutely Doc! About as punk as Mike Pence...

Punk sucks in general.

Especially the "real" punk bans. Fuck that pretentious bullshit.

But that's just my personal opinion, so feel free to disagree

Sammy, I think you buy into Henry Rollins self-aggrandizement too much...
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Doc Sammy on January 15, 2021, 12:03:30 PM
The Clash sucks
That is all.

Absolutely Doc! About as punk as Mike Pence...

Punk sucks in general.

Especially the "real" punk bans. Fuck that pretentious bullshit.

But that's just my personal opinion, so feel free to disagree

Sammy, I think you buy into Henry Rollins self-aggrandizement too much...

Nah, I genuinely don't like the "true punk" bands and don't get why punk is so lionized in the culture. The music sucks and the subculture is pretentious and snooty.

Metal and Classic Rock are good. Punk is bad.

Also, in a perfect world, the 1970's would've ended with punk dying and disco living on instead.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 15, 2021, 12:17:12 PM
Metal and Classic Rock are good. Punk is bad.

Nah... Metal is the most pretentious stuff about, and classic rock is meh. :)
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Mistwell on January 15, 2021, 01:15:46 PM
Pundit can also be an asshole of sorts, but I've NEVER seen him try to...manufacture claims of perceived slights and try to destroy people because he doesn't like them.

Seriously, you've never seen Pundit manufacture, or at least massively exaggerate, perceived slights and try to at least take the slighters down a peg or ten? It's like you don't even know who Pundit is! Come on dude. That is literally his online persona. It's his bread and butter. He takes a mostly innocuous comment, and blows it up into a major issue as if it's an attack on all that is good and decent in the RPG world and tells you to fight them as if your RPG life depended on it. And then goes on to the next topic the following week making similar claims. This is what he does. It's what he's been doing since The Forge.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 15, 2021, 01:33:02 PM
Pundit can also be an asshole of sorts, but I've NEVER seen him try to...manufacture claims of perceived slights and try to destroy people because he doesn't like them.

Seriously, you've never seen Pundit manufacture, or at least massively exaggerate, perceived slights and try to at least take the slighters down a peg or ten? It's like you don't even know who Pundit is! Come on dude. That is literally his online persona. It's his bread and butter. He takes a mostly innocuous comment, and blows it up into a major issue as if it's an attack on all that is good and decent in the RPG world and tells you to fight them as if your RPG life depended on it. And then goes on to the next topic the following week making similar claims. This is what he does. It's what he's been doing since The Forge.

Well, Pundit takes the piss... And likes to wind people up.

But he's not rude to his customers and is a very good fellow to work with. He gave me loads of help with my game as a consultant.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: moonsweeper on January 15, 2021, 06:58:37 PM
The Clash sucks
That is all.

Absolutely Doc! About as punk as Mike Pence...

Punk sucks in general.

Especially the "real" punk bans. Fuck that pretentious bullshit.

But that's just my personal opinion, so feel free to disagree

Sammy, I think you buy into Henry Rollins self-aggrandizement too much...

Nah, I genuinely don't like the "true punk" bands and don't get why punk is so lionized in the culture. The music sucks and the subculture is pretentious and snooty.

Metal and Classic Rock are good. Punk is bad.

Also, in a perfect world, the 1970's would've ended with punk dying and disco living on instead.

I'm genuinely curious as to who you consider to be "true punk" bands...because pretentious and snooty are not words I would use for the majority of them.  Although I could see that applying to Rollins because he has an exaggerated opinion of his own importance...

but that was why I mentioned him.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Doc Sammy on January 16, 2021, 12:18:50 AM
Metal and Classic Rock are good. Punk is bad.

Nah... Metal is the most pretentious stuff about, and classic rock is meh. :)

Methinks the punk doth project too much

All the complains punks have about metal is far more applicable to punk and the punk scene. It reeks of projection and pretentiousness.

Punk is pretentious pseudo-intellectual conformity masquerading as non-conformity
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Garry G on January 16, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
Metal and Classic Rock are good. Punk is bad.

Nah... Metal is the most pretentious stuff about, and classic rock is meh. :)

Methinks the punk doth project too much

All the complains punks have about metal is far more applicable to punk and the punk scene. It reeks of projection and pretentiousness.

Punk is pretentious pseudo-intellectual conformity masquerading as non-conformity

It's really good fun though. Like lot's of fun, totally teckle.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: RPGPundit on January 16, 2021, 07:37:20 PM
Whatever the topic of this thread might be, I know what it absolutely is NOT: it is NOT about what styles of music you like

Doc Sammy you have brought this up multiple times on multiple threads over long periods.

Do it once more on ANY thread that is not EXPLICITLY a thread about music, and you will be banned.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: RPGPundit on January 16, 2021, 07:38:00 PM
Pundit can also be an asshole of sorts, but I've NEVER seen him try to...manufacture claims of perceived slights and try to destroy people because he doesn't like them.

Seriously, you've never seen Pundit manufacture, or at least massively exaggerate, perceived slights and try to at least take the slighters down a peg or ten? It's like you don't even know who Pundit is! Come on dude. That is literally his online persona. It's his bread and butter. He takes a mostly innocuous comment, and blows it up into a major issue as if it's an attack on all that is good and decent in the RPG world and tells you to fight them as if your RPG life depended on it. And then goes on to the next topic the following week making similar claims. This is what he does. It's what he's been doing since The Forge.

Well, Pundit takes the piss... And likes to wind people up.

But he's not rude to his customers and is a very good fellow to work with. He gave me loads of help with my game as a consultant.


I appreciate that!
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on January 17, 2021, 09:05:04 AM

I appreciate that!

No problem mate... Credit where credit is due!
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Spinachcat on January 17, 2021, 11:03:05 PM
You're a champion of nothing but your own interests, and you don't believe in Free Speech.  Again, you'd desperately wish to be part of SJW cool-kids club if only they let you in.  But they never will, because you did porn.

Zack's anti-Free Speech?

That would be a weird position for him. His persona and careers (both art and RPGs) depends entirely on a robust freedom of expression.

As for the kewl-kids club, its funny how puritanical they are about Zack's porno past. I think its more than his past, but the fact he didn't do the usual 180 "prons are bad, mkay" when he left the industry and he even dared to combine D&D and porn and that concept paid off (until it didn't).
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on January 17, 2021, 11:06:04 PM
You're a champion of nothing but your own interests, and you don't believe in Free Speech.  Again, you'd desperately wish to be part of SJW cool-kids club if only they let you in.  But they never will, because you did porn.

Zack's anti-Free Speech?

That would be a weird position for him. His persona and careers (both art and RPGs) depends entirely on a robust freedom of expression.

As for the kewl-kids club, its funny how puritanical they are about Zack's porno past. I think its more than his past, but the fact he didn't do the usual 180 "prons are bad, mkay" when he left the industry and he even dared to combine D&D and porn and that concept paid off (until it didn't).

Never trust anyone who talks that way, Cat, things are always less boring than Pundit makes them out to be:  http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2018/04/barney-rosset-james-raggi-and-why-youre.html (http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2018/04/barney-rosset-james-raggi-and-why-youre.html).
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Spinachcat on January 17, 2021, 11:36:16 PM
And here's why I've never done a Kickstarter and am unlikely to ever do one.

Kickstarter is a GREAT tool, but like all tools, it must be understood and wielded properly. Our playtest and design group has several people who launch their own KS vs. those who farm them out and there's many, many issues with both approaches.

Self-publishing has many downfalls, but with all that responsibility does come autonomy. The KS were I've seen the MOST issues is the kind where an author is assumed to be responsible party, but in reality, the unnamed background parties are in control and dropping the ball.

Actually just a strategy session about exactly that situation on Friday. 

Then the brass dog machines will run down the moderates and take their books from their cold dead hands.  There are no winners in the culture wars.

A) Fuck the moderates. Mushy middle wants to be sheep? Great, then don't complain when the shearing starts and their asses end up on the BBQ spit.

B) Plenty of winners in the culture wars, but people should be careful what they ask for and learn to recognize grifters. But that will never happen.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: David Johansen on January 17, 2021, 11:48:10 PM
Well, the mushy middle that wants the sociopaths from both sides who are agitating for a scorched earth war to be taken out and shot in the street but yeah.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Two Crows on January 20, 2021, 02:01:26 PM
If I buy a $10 item, what can I expect?
A nasty letter fom a derranged lawyer? (I hope!)


BAM!

Just like that, I have a new career idea ...
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Wicked Woodpecker of West on January 20, 2021, 04:53:40 PM
Quote
That is literally his online persona. It's his bread and butter. He takes a mostly innocuous comment, and blows it up into a major issue as if it's an attack on all that is good and decent in the RPG world and tells you to fight them as if your RPG life depended on it. And then goes on to the next topic the following week making similar claims. This is what he does. It's what he's been doing since The Forge.

Well there is sort of trend among anti-SJW content creators - like I think Quartering is good example in gaming/movie world, to take some random shit from SJW no-names from Twitter and present it in scandalous form as next stage of ultra epic battle or smth. Which is bit disenheartening you expect some big battle waging and it's like minor quarrel between neomaoist tankie and pink-haired agender woman with on/ona pronouns one page 234 of Twitter
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Two Crows on January 20, 2021, 06:24:06 PM
#metoo but, if you've been watching the updates, you know I already did my bit and it's in layout. So I know little more than you.

I have been rebuilding my Classic Games Collection. Since Christmas I have purchased Cross of Iron, and Crescendo of Doom, as well as Imperium, Dark Nebula, Mayday, Caesar:Alesia, and the Melee microgame. Just need Advanced Melee and Wizard now. Thinking about rebuilding my Europa collection, need to wait for the tax return though becuase Drang Nach Osten, and Unentschieden are pretty pricey.


Did we just become best friends?

(https://fastly.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/2018/05/deadpool_2_and_cable.jpg)


I'm pretty certain I spent more time with HOI2 than I did my ex-wife.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: RPGPundit on January 20, 2021, 09:32:10 PM
Quote
That is literally his online persona. It's his bread and butter. He takes a mostly innocuous comment, and blows it up into a major issue as if it's an attack on all that is good and decent in the RPG world and tells you to fight them as if your RPG life depended on it. And then goes on to the next topic the following week making similar claims. This is what he does. It's what he's been doing since The Forge.

Well there is sort of trend among anti-SJW content creators - like I think Quartering is good example in gaming/movie world, to take some random shit from SJW no-names from Twitter and present it in scandalous form as next stage of ultra epic battle or smth. Which is bit disenheartening you expect some big battle waging and it's like minor quarrel between neomaoist tankie and pink-haired agender woman with on/ona pronouns one page 234 of Twitter

Most of the stuff I quote is not "random shit from no-names". Its stuff being said by people in control of the most powerful company in the industry, or major names in the new entryism into the hobby, or people who are about to be hired by WoTC for the stupid shit they said.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: GameDaddy on January 21, 2021, 12:18:43 AM

Did we just become best friends?
I'm pretty certain I spent more time with HOI2 than I did my ex-wife.

Well, that looks interesting. The Europa I'm referring to is the Europa that a series of board wargames planned to cover combat over the entire European Theater of World War II at a scale that represents units from divisions down to battalions and game turns that represent two weeks of time. The series was launched in 1973, and is still in production, with over a twenty-two titles published and several more still in production, or planning. Most of these titles qualify as "monster games", a subgenre of wargames featuring extensive orders of battle, a complex ruleset and an unusually large game-map area with a detailed representation of the terrains they cover.

This was originally designed by Rich Banner and Frank Chadwick. They were brilliant, I think Rich was the original designer, and the lead graphics designer. The game was extremely easy to play, and the turns fast, once you get to know the rules, however the scope the entire war in Europe and North Africa, on maps that were made of hexes 16 miles across, made this a monster game. Drang Nach Osten alone, came with five 21"x27" hex maps with eight sheets numbering 1,792 counters. There were at least twenty-two games published as part of the series including:
 
Drang Nach Osten (Spread to the East) The German invasion of Russia from 1941-1942. Later republished as Fire in the East
Unentschieden (The Draw) WWII German invasion of Russia 1943-45. Later Republished as The East is Red.
Götterdämmerung - (Twilight of the Gods) An expansion to play in Eastern Europe through and beyond 1945...
Marita-Merkur - The German invasion of Greece and the Balkan States in 1940
Their Finest Hour - German planned invasion of Britain (including the air war) 1940
Narvik - German invasion of Norway 1940
Western Desert - North Africa Campaign simulates the campaigns in Egypt and Libya from December 1940 until January 1943, as well as the peripheral operations on Malta and Cyprus, and in Syria and Lebanon.
Case White - A three Player game, The combined German and Russian invasion of Poland 1939
The Fall of France - May 1940 Campaign in France
The Near East -  Three maps cover Asiatic Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Western Iran.
For Whom the Bell Tolls - Battles for Spain and Portugal
Torch - From November 1942 and the subsequent land campaign for control of Africa through May 1943.
The Second Front - depicts the Western Allied campaigns in Italy, France, and Germany from 1943 to 1945.
The Urals - A hypothetical  Expansion for DNO/Unentschieden for if the German player just keeps blitzing East into Asia
A Winter War - A Winter War is a detailed simulation of the Soviet invasion of Finland during the winter of 1939-40.

Most of this was published before computer games was even a thing, and I have never actually seen the entire fifteen games all setup simultaneously. With well over ten thousands counters, maybe double that and more than forty 21"x27" map sheets this remains the largest war game ever published.  You have to be a sado-masochist to even play this game. Ummm... Just playing the first two, it would take us three days just to setup Drang Nach Osten, and we'd play at least four hours a day (and more on the weekends) for two weeks, and that was just to play the first game.   So yes, I played HOI2, and liked it, ...before the age of computers.


Rich Banner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Banner

Frank Chadwick
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Chadwick

Frank Chadwicks' Website
http://www.heliograph.com/

Europa, The Board Wargame
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(wargame) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(wargame))

Historical Military Services Website (Archived, not active since 2016)
https://web.archive.org/web/20100801035929/http://hmsgrd.com/wordpress/?page_id=10

Board Game Geek link to the Europa Series
https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/The_Europa_Series#
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Anon Adderlan on February 14, 2021, 10:05:13 AM
Oh hi Zak, remember when I responded to your blog post on detoxing communities (https://archive.is/ObHwC) with this...

Quote
So Anna Kreider ends her blog by adopting a harmful stereotype and literally crying for sympathy, and the Fred vs. Cam link demonstrates those people will simply endorse anything said by those they like with no consideration for what's actually said. No wonder lists like #Games4Her and #Orangelist are a thing.

This 'community' shit has gotten way too complex for me. All I know are two things:

Guilt by association is destroying every community I thought I was a part of. I still can't get over how Avery Alder was abandoned by so called 'allies' who would rather punish Mark Diaz Truman and determine where it's acceptable for transwomen to seek support, over less than a page of work which neither furthers nor endorses the harm they claim he caused. Yet they still use KickStarter, which benefits Mark more. So much for ethical consistency.

And (Endorsing) Libel is no more Harassment than Sexual Harassment is Rape, or Disagreement a Mortal Threat, and I've never seen these equivalences used for any other purpose than to distort the truth. The problem isn't how the specific words are defined either, but in treating the concepts as identical. You spend a lot of words defining 'harassment' in order to call what you face harassment, and I'm not sure why you feel the need to overplay your hand like this when the people you're dealing with are being so obviously awful.

So just to be clear, do you consider false statements regarding your character posted publicly to be harassment?

...and how you responded to my post (after deleting it) with this (https://archive.is/ObHwC#selection-3879.1-3879.17)...

Quote
First: Saying you can't follow just means you should ask.

Second: You, assuming you are the "Anon Adderlan" that appears elsewhere you endorsed Fred Hicks' share of the smear article which said Zak Smith--the guy who plays D&D every week with a group that's basically only bi trans and gay women and WOC is trying to keep everyone who isn't a cishet white man out of gaming.

The article and the reasons it's an obvious smear are described here: http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2014/08/how-dungeons-and-dragons-is-totally-not.html

You endorsing it is here: http://plus.google.com/u/0/+FredHicks/posts/SJHZ8Jc5SoW

..which seems out of character for you (assuming it's the same anon adderlan) so I'm all ears if you have some excuse and are going to remove your endorsement.

As for you
-
-
-
You need to address these points and not lie in the comments (I erased your comment as it contained false assertions-you are not watching an attempt to distort the truth) in order to be able to be having a conversation here.

And again: if you would like to redefine "harassment" to include only the kinds of harassment you consider serious then you need to state clearly what you think that definition is.

Calling both two different things both "harassment" is no more an attempt to make them equivalent than calling both murder and vandalism "crime".

As for your question: which specific statements regarding my "character" are you referring to---quote them?

...anyway, since you're already here I figure I'd take the opportunity to address this off my bucket list.

First: Asking wouldn't help me 'follow' because these community standards are capricious, arbitrary, and impossible to intentionally follow. They're designed exclusively to give those responsible for enforcement power.

Second: Seems out of character for you to delete evidence too. As for what I was endorsing, using quotes from Fred himself:

Quote
"no matter how monstrous people appear on the Internet, there are still humans sitting there behind that wall of pixels."

Good to remember.

Quote
"in matters involving folks' upsettedness over D&D, there is so much anger raised on all sides that if anyone tries to take a moderate position on any part of it out loud (instead of silently), they're deemed the enemy."

Completely true.

Quote
"I've said it before (*despite this article claiming to the contrary*), and I'll say it again (even if it's thrown back at me as it has been previously): I am very, very sorry"

So he apologized, admitted he was wrong, and shared the article specifically to point out its inaccuracy.

But people like you only seem able to treat others as absolutes which is exactly the problem. It's impossible to have rational discourse if you can't endorse something someone says without endorsing everything they say. That's why this election was so divisive. That's why all these 'communities' are falling apart. And as long as you treat people like this you're part of the problem too.

As for you.

You accused me of lying. Please point out exactly what was a lie and why.

If I'm not watching an attempt to distort the truth then prove it instead of further distorting the truth by deleting my comment.

I never attempted to redefine harassment. However you did, which is the whole point of my question.

I never attempted to equivocate between different kinds of harassment.

And the question has nothing to do with specific statements about your character. That's immaterial, which means you're either too stupid to realize that or acting in bad faith, I'll let you pick which. But since you can't seem to see past that, I'll rephrase the question: Do you consider false statements regarding anyone's character posted publicly to be harassment?

Glad we finally found a suitable public forum to address this little misunderstanding. Would've emailed you, but then there wouldn't be a publicly visible trail of evidence. And I would've #Tweeted, but apparently you have me blocked for liking your #Tweets. Guess endorsement is harassment too.

My bet however is you'll find another excuse not to.

Literally no RPG author I am aware of--certainly not you or I--experienced censorship. I experienced people lying.

If you define "censorship" as a private platform being unwilling to publish your stuff, then:  My cousin has written a book of poems about horses. Print and distribute her book, Pundit, or else you are a censor.

Not taking action to publish is different than taking action to unpublish. You know, like with #DemonCity.

If you use "sjw" unironically I super don't want your help.

Doesn't matter how much you say this they still won't sleep with you.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on February 14, 2021, 10:25:20 AM
Quote
First: Asking wouldn't help me 'follow' because these community standards are capricious, arbitrary, and impossible to intentionally follow.

Only if you're talking to a bad actor. The standards of the person you were talking to (me) were and are none of those things.

Quote
Seems out of character for you to delete evidence too.

A record of all your comments on my blog is in my email (available on request) but I always delete misinformation from the public comments because misinformation is bad.

Quote
(Endorsing) _Libel_ is no more Harassment than Sexual Harassment is Rape

Here's the first screechingly loud piece of misinformation you posted: Encouraging someone to post misinformation in order to harm an innocent person is 100% a form of harassment. It's enouraging someone to break the law to harm an innocent. If that's not harassment, nothing is.

Quote
So he apologized, admitted he was wrong, and shared the article specifically to point out its inaccuracy.

Fred Hicks did not do that. He did not apologize, he didn't claim to be sharing the article "specifically to point out its inaccuracy".

If Fred Hicks had apologized to me (or even addressed me directly) it would've been a completely unprecedented red-letter day in RPGland and everyone I knew in games would've sat slack-jawed in amazement.

Quote
Do you consider false statements regarding anyone's character posted publicly to be harassment?

Only if both of these conditions are satisfied:
-The statement is negative,
-The person making the comment didn't do their due dilligence to check if it was true

Step one of any due dilligence is attempt to contact the person you're criticizing.
----

More misinformation from you, from a hatepost you made I think on Reddit:

" refused to answer my questions, any one of which goes against his proclaimed principles."

I never did that: my proclaiemd principles are I follow the rules if you do. If you do something bad-faith like lead with a firs-tstrike personal attack or post misinformation and don't apologize or address it when it's pointed out, then you don't have the right to have your questions answered any more. You give up your right to be treated fairly. Without that detail a bad-faith actor can easily exploit the rules.

"Finally he impersonated someone, or had a friend which did so"

I never did that.

"lied about what I said"

I never did that.

"threw his co-author for Maze of the Blue Medusa under the bus"

This, strictly speaking, is just misleading: it implies I attacked Patrick first, which is not true and easy to google.


-----

If you're saying:
-the misinformation you posted was a mistake and not a lie and
-I said it was a lie
...then I apologize: you posted misinformation that you didn't bother to check--which is exactly as bad as lying. So it's a difference in kind but not severity.

At any rate: until you apologize for trying to put misinformation on the internet, your other comments don't matter because you're not a good faith actor.



Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 14, 2021, 11:41:56 AM
*makes popcorn furiously*

Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: yabaziou on February 14, 2021, 05:18:19 PM
Marilyn Manson, who is an actual celebrity has been cancelled for sexual misconduct so Zak who has played D&D with him and wrote about on his blog, should feel the luckiest adult male of the Homo sapiens species alive. That was I would feel in the same situation but I am French and a total nobody. Life is good !
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Zak S on February 14, 2021, 06:10:00 PM
Marilyn Manson, who is an actual celebrity has been cancelled for sexual misconduct so Zak who has played D&D with him and wrote about on his blog, should feel the luckiest adult male of the Homo sapiens species alive.

I did not play D&D with Marilyn Manson. I attended a wedding a few years ago and, at the wedding, we talked about his D&D history and I wrote about it on my blog because I thought it would be funny. We aren't friends or anything.

This is a pretty good example of how you (and people like you) don't read carefully and then say accusatory-sounding things based on not having read carefully, thus causing problems.

I wouldn't be much of a D&D blogger if I talked to a rock star about playing D&D and didn't even tell readers what class he played. But, more interestingly: Kerry King was very shy, and Dee Snider was very kind.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: yabaziou on February 14, 2021, 09:57:04 PM
Could you be kind enough to provide a direct link to this blog post of yours where you discribed your interactions with Marilyn Manson here, in order to improve my English reading skill, please Zachary Smith ?

Nevermind : it is the blog is Monday July 28 2014. I cannot link since I am on mobile but there it is.
Title: Re: Enjoy.
Post by: Slipshot762 on February 15, 2021, 03:43:30 AM
Leftists: "Harassment is bad, just because jim is a bearded he-bitch in makeup and girly jeans doesn't mean he should be harassed, you people giving him looks every time you pass him in the hall are harassing him and it's NOT ok."

Also Leftists: "Slip, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences (those consequences being harassment which in this case is A-ok!) so when you took that sharpie and wrote "I heart hitler now get your whore ass back in the kitchen" on your shirt, you were out of line...no the looks you got for doing so were not harassment."

Leftists man, not even once.