Quote from: David Johansen on December 11, 2022, 06:06:58 PM
I'd think Paizo's strategy should be obvious.  Wait for OneD&D to come out and then release Pathfinder Classic, going back to the original but tightening up in a couple places.

Pathfinder 2 isn't terrible. It cleans up a lot of the general weirdness from 3e

Quote from: Jaeger on December 11, 2022, 04:43:38 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 11, 2022, 06:09:28 AM
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Even if they came up with a workable plan to "monetize" D&D, WOTC has proven spectacularly incompetent at implementing such plans

All the people at WotC who tried in the past are gone.

Hasbro has hired people with a solid track record of success in digital gaming.

Covered a bit in an earlier thread here:
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/ray-winninger-done-at-wotc-more-digital-dudes-coming-in/msg1233263/#msg1233263

This is how serious WotC is about this:.

Ray ray's replacement, Kyle Brink's whole working life is essentially digital gaming. Tim Fields, WotC's Senior Vice President and General Manager of Digital Gaming. Is of a similar background. With an emphasis on the monetization of mobile games.

Now of course the proof will be in the pudding. But WotC's plans for D&Done and their VTT should not be lightly dismissed!

I'm not dismissing it. I think they will try and fail spectacularly because table top RPGs are not video games. I can (and have) made my own systems. I don't need WOTC to play my 2nd edition D&D. They might gather a few bucks from quality of life elements in their online apps for the current edition, but I doubt this is going to be a wild success like they imagine it.

Quote from: David Johansen on December 11, 2022, 06:06:58 PM
I'd think Paizo's strategy should be obvious.  Wait for OneD&D to come out and then release Pathfinder Classic, going back to the original but tightening up in a couple places.

If you're suggesting a return to 3.X style mechanics, I don't think that'd work all that well unless you did a lot of work (and doing such work is necessarily going to lead you into making a new system).

I think they are all-in on the underwhelming Pathfinder 2.

Quote from: David Johansen on December 11, 2022, 06:06:58 PM
I'd think Paizo's strategy should be obvious.  Wait for OneD&D to come out and then release Pathfinder Classic, going back to the original but tightening up in a couple places.

I personally believe that Baizuo is creatively bankrupt and psychologically incapable of making such a shift.

That, and the fact that they are pot-invested in PF2. No way they abandon that baby mid-stream...

Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 11, 2022, 06:37:32 PM
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I'm not dismissing it. I think they will try and fail spectacularly because table top RPGs are not video games. I can (and have) made my own systems. I don't need WOTC to play my 2nd edition D&D. They might gather a few bucks from quality of life elements in their online apps for the current edition, but I doubt this is going to be a wild success like they imagine it.

They are not, but the current generation of 5e 'story hour' theatre kids run the game like it is one.

The DnDone/OneVTT ecosystem is being purpose built for the new cool kids. WotC has long since told the old guard that they don't need them any more.

WotC is making a bet: That all the new 'fans' that have come to the game recently will allow them to ignore the 'old school' crowd that they tried to bring back into the fold with 5e.

I am of the opinion that in the short run that bet will come through, as all the cool kids will run to the new shiny. But in the long term; I think that there is real opportunity for a company that is willing to emphasize live play at the table.

Also there is the fact that WotC is terminally riddled with corporate cancer...

The thing is that the executives don't care about "roleplaying games" they care about brands and monetization.  You don't have to play the game to wear the T Shirt.  They see a powerful brand name having a cultural moment and want to make a buck and that's fine.  But there's a deep and abiding failure to understand what D&D is or was or can be to the people who play it.  The thing is it's not censored entertainment, it's not Disney.  It's a bit like the woke outrage over Cards Against Humanity a couple years ago.  The game that tries its hardest to be offensive has offended someone, oh no, what are we going to do.  A great deal of D&D's appeal is transgressive, and the other part is enabling personal creativity and ideas.  Not what corporat hacks want to be selling at all.

Anyhow, the brilliance of my "obvious direction" for Paizo is that it doesn't require creation, just regurgitation.

Quote from: Jaeger on December 11, 2022, 08:29:56 PM

Quote from: David Johansen on December 11, 2022, 06:06:58 PM
I'd think Paizo's strategy should be obvious.  Wait for OneD&D to come out and then release Pathfinder Classic, going back to the original but tightening up in a couple places.

I personally believe that Baizuo is creatively bankrupt and psychologically incapable of making such a shift.

That, and the fact that they are pot-invested in PF2. No way they abandon that baby mid-stream...

Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 11, 2022, 06:37:32 PM
...
I'm not dismissing it. I think they will try and fail spectacularly because table top RPGs are not video games. I can (and have) made my own systems. I don't need WOTC to play my 2nd edition D&D. They might gather a few bucks from quality of life elements in their online apps for the current edition, but I doubt this is going to be a wild success like they imagine it.

They are not, but the current generation of 5e 'story hour' theatre kids run the game like it is one.

The DnDone/OneVTT ecosystem is being purpose built for the new cool kids. WotC has long since told the old guard that they don't need them any more.

WotC is making a bet: That all the new 'fans' that have come to the game recently will allow them to ignore the 'old school' crowd that they tried to bring back into the fold with 5e.

I am of the opinion that in the short run that bet will come through, as all the cool kids will run to the new shiny. But in the long term; I think that there is real opportunity for a company that is willing to emphasize live play at the table.

Also there is the fact that WotC is terminally riddled with corporate cancer...

This is why we should introduce Burning Wheel to these theater kids. Give them something built for narratives, and let them have fun. Do not let them fuck up DND.

Quote from: David Johansen on December 11, 2022, 08:48:20 PM
The thing is that the executives don't care about "roleplaying games" they care about brands and monetization.  You don't have to play the game to wear the T Shirt.  They see a powerful brand name having a cultural moment and want to make a buck and that's fine.

Yep. D&D has been merchandised since it became popular in the 70's-80's. Shrinky dinks and coloring books and all that.

Quote from: S'mon on December 11, 2022, 02:53:44 AM
Saw this on my Facebook feed https://www.dicebreaker.com/categories/roleplaying-game/news/dungeons-and-dragons-under-monetised-says-executives?utm_source=social_sharing&fbclid=IwAR25ijqcfJgUwVd-bWKcnyfloOpa214dTdsvmzd53A-8rAP42CYDTmRa5O8

"D&D has never been more popular, and we have really great fans and engagement," Williams began. "But the brand is really under monetised."

The executives are less worried about design than installing more on-ramps for players to spend their money. Williams mentioned that while dungeon masters comprise roughly 20% of the D&D player base, they make up "the largest share of our paying players". An investment in digital, she posits, will allow Wizards of the Coast to "unlock the type of recurrent spending you see in digital games".

I spent a great part of a decade in outside sales, working in multiple states.  We represented certain brands of hardware, software, industrial equipment, etc.  We represented many different brands.  Every single company we represented, had the unreal expectation that their revenue should increase every year in every sales territory.  Not one single company was ever satisfied, just being successful and making a profit.  They would fire profitable representation, just to see if someone else could help them generate more revenue.

QuoteHasbro CEO Chris Cocks and Wizards of the Coast CEO and president Cynthia Williams

Any relation to Lorraine?

Yes!  I finally get a second chance at that D&D wood burning kit!

Maybe if we're really good we'll get a D&D Chia Pet! Or a D&D friendship bracelet kit!

/sarcasm tag for these dark ages for irony.

So, basically, WotC wants to turn D&D into a video game? They may be able to make enough profit from such a shift, but I doubt they will be able to keep the majority of their player base, many of whom will probably quit playing ttrpgs altogether. Other companies could conceivably benefit from WotC's move, but I doubt it will be Paizo. However, it could be a boon for OSR or perhaps for Free League's Year Zero Engine.

Maybe WotC should, oh, I don't know, try aiming at the demographic that actually buys their games, instead of pandering to the Twitterati?

Quote from: Foxxxy Bruin on December 12, 2022, 08:06:26 AM
Maybe WotC should, oh, I don't know, try aiming at the demographic that actually buys their games, instead of pandering to the Twitterati?

More people play videogames than play TTRPG's.

This is the non-D&D playing WotC Braintrust at the top "Leveraging the D&D Brand" for "Robust Service" to current base while "Reaching Out" to new consumers while at the same time "Throwing one Over the Fence" to the Shareholders. By using the same "Bleeding Edge" methods in the Mobile Games space, WotC can go for the "Low-Hanging Fruit" that currently enjoys their products virtually, by initiating "Blue Sky Thinking" and "Thought Showering" for maximal "Market Capture". By sending out WotC's "Tiger Teams" to corral the influencers on social-media, WotC believes this will "Gain Traction" from the established 5e fans where they can "Drill Down" on initial responses, where once they find the "Silver Bullet", WotC can begin "Moving the Goalposts" in order to keep "Moving the Needle" until like the Digital Fruitcompany's model, the "A-Ha Moment" will be reached, and the D&D players will be safely contained in the OneDnD Ecosystem(tm).

At least that's the "Key Takeways".


(This statement was made by the Committee Office for Media Enterprises System Tracking And Idea Networks and has nor bearing on the Corporate gaming production-sphere writ large.)

Elon should buy Wokies of the Coast.

I wouldn't mind if they made a Neverwinter Nights 3 or something. Neverwinter Nights 1 is getting pretty long in the tooth, even with the enhanced edition released a few years ago. The graphics look really bad. Neverwinter Nights 2 is in legal limbo and won't get an enhanced edition.

But it's obvious that WotC wants to make mobile game shovelware