Also, since they replace physical scores, the con isn't going to help; he gets to keep his hit dice, but not his adjust HPs.

The claw/claw bite attack routine is pretty great...except for the fact that it's not going to dominate the usual two-hander+power attack build, and that AC of 13 is going to suck more damage than even a barbarian usually would.

So, you'll end up with high level 1 damage output...in return for a tanked defense, and even less versitility than usual.

Quote from: SosthenesI didn't take gnome for size bonuses, but for the con boost. Which (medium-sized) dwarves have too. I've seen this done for druids, but at least they had to weather a few levels first and by then the rest of the group can hold up.
Also one has to keep in mind that a barbarian would be much more likely to switch classes. For a one-level dip, bear-shape is nice. If I have to take a few levels before I get to full brown bear size, I'll probably wait as long and then tack on a few fighter levels for feats, then it's War Shaper time.

The only shaping implementation that I've seen that works from level is is the Druid variant in PHB 2, and that works because it just _adds_ to attributes and offers rather limited forms without many special abilities. Otherwise, Eberronian shifters and the Bear Warrior PrC are probably the rule equivalents one has to keep in mind when designing such abilities.

The con doesn't help. I'm going off the SRD here, but all the physical stats change over, meaning that as a black bear, all that extra HP the gnome or dwarf is carrying around disappears.

Once again, compared to a strength 20 greatsword wielding half-orc barbarian, the difference at low levels is going to be that, on a full attack, the Bearbarian might do a few more points od damage.

Quote from: LeSquideThe con doesn't help. I'm going off the SRD here, but all the physical stats change over, meaning that as a black bear, all that extra HP the gnome or dwarf is carrying around disappears.

I don't have the slightest idea with what rule set you're working right now. It certainly doesn't seem to have much to do with the Alternate Form ability of the SRD.
So before we take this discussion any further, please state how your rules would look like. To compare favorably, the probably will deviate rather highly from either "bear" or "change shape".

Quote from: LeSquideOnce again, compared to a strength 20 greatsword wielding half-orc barbarian, the difference at low levels is going to be that, on a full attack, the Bearbarian might do a few more points od damage.

With standard point buy, a Str 20 orc barbarian would be seriously gimped, while bear-shaping barbarian only depends on Con and could probably put quite a few leftover points into the mental attributes, thus increasing his out-of-combat effectiveness.
This increases the advantages one gets from level-dipping. If a full alternate form ability is granted that lasts equal or more than a rage would, this would be the ideal class to take a single level. Hey, even as a wizard I'd seriously think about doing that.

But first get our terminology clear: What does "bear-shaping" entail? What are "sensible restrictions"?

I'm looking at the SRD right now. Alternate form changes all three physical stats to the new shape's; I missed the caveat regarding hitpoints staying the same.
That being said, the only place an equipmentless fighter, even one with a sizable array of natural attacks, is in danger of outstripping a PC who has equipment even approaching the assumed balance point...is low level.
At that point, the Con-drenched gnomebarbearian's 17 HP are meaty indeed...but I'm still not seeing any serious problem.

As to sensible restrictions, it'd depend if I was writing something up for general use or for a particular instance of play. Level dipping is a problem...but for an ability which negates the benefits of any weapons and armor proficiency, removes the ability to use any weapons or weapon related feats  (and zeroes out equipment bonuses on top of that), I don't think it's particularly attractive (though there might be warshaper builds and the like that could take advantage of it.)

If we're looking at an hour per day per (class) level in bear-form, starting at black bear, I might consider rules specifying what exactly the bear form can't do, as well as possibly restricting armor usage, but I don't think that'd be necessary in most cases. I'd be more worried with the player trying to get everything in an adventure done in that hour of use; that would be particularly problematic if he dumped the other physical stats in favor of Con and good mental scores.

Quote from: LeSquideThat being said, the only place an equipmentless fighter, even one with a sizable array of natural attacks, is in danger of outstripping a PC who has equipment even approaching the assumed balance point...is low level.
At that point, the Con-drenched gnomebarbearian's 17 HP are meaty indeed...but I'm still not seeing any serious problem.

Low level is the point of argument, mostly. If you're able to wild shape at the same level as a Druid, you're still marginally better off, but at least not by much -- if the equipment level isn't very targeted and/or high, you might even be slightly worse.

And serious problem as in out-of control for the DM? Nah, a slight change of tactics and you're fine. But it _is_ totally unbalanced compared to the normal barbarian and other fighting classes. Without spending a feat, you'll get multiple attacks without a to-hit limit, very munchkinizable attribute adjustments, no speed loss (and an actual speed gain for the dwarf barbarian) and almost no other penalties. The AC might suffer a bit and you can't speak -- not exactly strong points for normal barbarians either.

At higher levels, this becomes less of a problem -- and the level dipping problem is solved, too. Without classes like the war shaper you'll be doing alright. Anything significantly lower than 5th level will just screw things up.

I think you're understating the AC problem (even more, at any point past first level,) and unlike a 'normal' barbarian, a Bearserker can do exactly one thing well in combat: Full attack. It's a pretty fine full attack, but it's a one trick poney. I don't even think that one trick is going to automatically overshadow the other fighting types: The output on a two handed weapon is still more reliable, even at level 1, and the bear's waiting to be squashed next to a fighter who even glances at defense.

In a game where I'd be worried about the other fighty types getting marginalized, I'd solve that by disallowing the full attack until 3rd level or so (which should also prevent the dipping problem.)

AC for a barbarian is a tricky subject. If you want to remain at the same speed as the bear, you'll have to refrain from medium armor and thus probably won't have a much bigger bonus at the beginning. Most of them don't use shields, charge a lot and rage occasionally, all not a very good boost. Dex is rather important for barbarians, too, so all your physical stats have to be high. There has to be a sacrifice somewhere, so either you'll end up weaker, rage for a shorter time or wind up being hit. Most barbarians tend to soak a lot with their d12 and a high con.

At low levels, I'd much rather have more attacks with decent damage than one big attack with lots of damage. If you're in a bunch of kobolds, giant rats or goblins, taking as many out as possible becomes rather important. So d4+4 * 2 is often better than d12+6 once.

Disallowing a full attack seems a bit hack-ish. So you're a bear, but less so. Like I said above, any decent solution is either less bear or less shapechange. Occam's razor strikes again.

EDIT: And I don't think the rest is with us anymore. If there's a dire need for this, let's continue by PM, or just drop it with the old agree-to-disagree-IMC-vs-IYC adage.

I realize I'm late to the party, but judging by the OP and the player's description of the character, why not just ask him to play a druid?  It seems to fit the basic character idea, and he gets a bear form.

Quote from: Arsenic CanaryI realize I'm late to the party, but judging by the OP and the player's description of the character, why not just ask him to play a druid?  It seems to fit the basic character idea, and he gets a bear form.

I did, he politely refused.

Quote from: Serious PaulI did, he politely refused.

Ah.  Nevermind then.

I guess I'd just tell him "no".