IMPORTANTE! This thread was started due to a big misunderstanding on my part. I'm leaving it up, though, so others can learn from it -- namely, "review your sources". -- R!
NOTE: Cross-posted from my blog.
My wife ran into Chris Engle and Terri Klingelhoffer today. They're our friends.
Chris is a games designer. He's the creator of the Engle Matrix game system, a system of which I am most fond. It's very neat, very fun, very home-grown and arguably very well-liked.
Terri, his wife, is a puppeteer. She builds puppets which she sells and uses in her puppet shows. Her shows have a keen sense of humor and kids dig them. (On this one, you have to scroll down to "Salads, Goats and Rats".)
Together they have a little company called Hamster Press/Klingel-Engle Puppets. They usually get a booth at Gen Con, where they sell games and puppets. They do pretty well.
Well, my wife related to me a story that Chris and Terri told her today. Seems that, last Gen Con, Ron Edwards told them something.
He told them that, because they sell games and puppets, they are not professional enough.
I'll leave you to make your own call on that.
Because they sell games and puppets at the booth?
Apparently so, yes, Brett.
So lemme guess. Ron, Chris and Terri didn't exactly get together later for a beer and laughs, eh?
No, I believe they asked him to not be there anymore.
Of all the things I've seen attributed to Ron, good or bad, that doesn't sound like him. Perhaps it was taken out of context?
If anything, I'd say it was pretty entrepreneurial.
And not professional enough for what?
Not professional enough for what?
And do Chris and Terri care?
Digression: I still don't completely "get" Matrix games. They seemed kind of un-compelling to me until I ran across this page (http://www.mapsymbs.com/wdmatrix.html) on the concept and these applications (http://www.mapsymbs.com/wdmatrix1.html).
Why do people continue to give Ron Edwards this kind of recognition, and the pseudo-power that comes with it? Here's an idea: from here on out, instead of saying "Ron Edwards said . . ." try "Some jerk said . . ." You get the same ourage vented, but don't increase the man's "celebrity" status.
Celebrity status? ..... Or is it infamy?
Um, yeah, crossposted.
I've noticed that Chris Engle has participated at The Forge for a long time. In fact I thought of him as a "core" participant for a while, but now looking over there I see he hasn't posted since November. I thought he got along well with Ron but I suppose he's no longer useful for that weird social-commercial agenda.
I like Chris Engle (and his hats). I always looked at his games at perhaps a medium between the murder mystery party and the RPG. Just my take.
Quote from: James McMurrayWhy do people continue to give Ron Edwards this kind of recognition, and the pseudo-power that comes with it? Here's an idea: from here on out, instead of saying "Ron Edwards said . . ." try "Some jerk said . . ." You get the same ourage vented, but don't increase the man's "celebrity" status.
That's pretty much true of anyone :toast:
Quote from: Zachary The FirstI like Chris Engle (and his hats). I always looked at his games at perhaps a medium between the murder mystery party and the RPG. Just my take.
Same here. To me, his games are true Story Games.
Puppets cause brain damage.
Seanchai
Quote from: SeanchaiPuppets cause brain damage.
Seanchai
:D
Here's Chris suggesting an interesting application of his method (which AFAICT is available for free), and getting batted down at RPG.net:
Character Development using Engle Matrix Games (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=310579)
It's basically a modified, slightly mechanical form of blue-booking, used as a capstone mechanic and campaign framework.
I dunno, man. My wife told me the story and I was, like, "The fuuuuu....?"
Samsung sells pizza, semiconductors, and cargo ships. I take it that Ron Edwards thinks they are not professional enough too?
The only thing I have to add to this discussion is that Chris was the guest of honor at our convention several years ago and he was an extremely professional and nice guy. Ron Edwards can go fuck himself.
Quote from: Elliot WilenDigression: I still don't completely "get" Matrix games. They seemed kind of un-compelling to me until I ran across this page (http://www.mapsymbs.com/wdmatrix.html) on the concept and these applications (http://www.mapsymbs.com/wdmatrix1.html).
I love Matrix games. The first time I played one it just felt "right" to me. Particularly for wargaming, I think that there is no better way to represent the way that the outcome of complex historical conflict is influenced by strange and small things ("In Hoc Signo Vinces", etc) without a ton of overly complex rules.
The pages that you link to are pure gold. In fact, I am at this moment prepping to run the "Aruba" staff planning game for several friends in a week or so.
TGA
I'm sorry but I just have to set in and defend Ron. What he meant Doc.R was that your friends business strategy is incoherent. Obviously they have conflicting agendas.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David RI'm sorry but I just have to set in and defend Ron. What he meant Doc.R was that your friends business strategy is incoherent. Obviously they have conflicting agendas.
Regards,
David R
Puppet h8r. I'm going to have to ask one of my best friends from childhood to beat the crap out of you.
(http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/c/c1/Supergrover.jpg)
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I'll leave you to make your own call on that.
Although both cool on their own (but she needs more puppet pics and less empty categories (Plush Toys for example) on the website!) it does strike me as a bit odd to bundle the two together like that? But what do I know, I don't sell puppet shows or RPGs, just a customer observation.
It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Edwards brought that up in an insensitive manner way and it just blew up from there. :(
Dwight, I don't hate puppets and neither does Ron. But there's a risk of brain damage - as Seanchai rightly points out - when gamers who want to buy games are exposed to puppets. Puppet play and game play are incompatible. Ever wondered why Bert & Ernie don't game ?
Regards,
David R
You know what? I think that Ron Edwards is great...FOR ME TO POOP ON!
(http://www.thrashed.net/swf/triumph_head.jpg)
:haw:
TGA
Quote from: David REver wondered why Bert & Ernie don't game on camera?
Fixed and indeed I did once wonder why we never see their 'roleplaying'. Then I stopped when I understood it was the same reason we never saw Susan and Gordon get their freak on.
P.S. Shouldn't you be busy with Seanchai at the National Puppet H8R Club meeting? Hater.
Quote from: DwightP.S. Shouldn't you be busy with Seanchai at the Puppet H8R Club meeting?
I always have time for a little evangelizing.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David RI'm sorry but I just have to set in and defend Ron. What he meant Doc.R was that your friends business strategy is incoherent. Obviously they have conflicting agendas.
What if they consider the puppets to be a kicker (or a bang)? (Although, personally, I find folks banging puppets to be disgusting,
Lars and the Real Girl aside). I'm sure if they frame their business properly, it will eventually fit into the Big Model (or the Big Model will be changed to accomodate it)...
Seanchai
Edit: Damn spellink
Quote from: David RI always have time for a little evangelizing.
Yeah. Nothing much happens during Bonfire Time anyway...
Seanchai
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I dunno, man. My wife told me the story and I was, like, "The fuuuuu....?"
Yeah, I got the same vibe when I ran into Ron Edwards at The Last GenCon in Milwaukee(tm). I pick up Sorcerer, he signs it, and notices that I am dragging around my GWB*. I don't recall much else of what we chatted about briefly,** but catching sight of my Nobilis, he says:
"Well, there's your edged weapon right there!"
I had no fucking idea what he meant by that.
*
(because the artists were doing a signing - curse you James Wallis for not signing!)**
(I was also snapping pictures of the other industry folks - Thanks again, Mr Elmore!)
Uncle Ronny is a lonely geek. Lonely geeks say strange stuff and make people feel uncomfortable.
They might, for example, reckon it's a good idea to walk up to women at cons and ask if they can touch their breasts (http://theferrett.livejournal.com/1087686.html) - and when one or two sad ones say "yes", decide to start a whole project about it, with buttons and everything.
It's just the sort of thing lonely geeks do, because they weren't beaten enough as children.
So, where can one get those anti-Ron puppetts. I would take three of each. Thank you.
Now seriously. I am somewhat hesitant about the story, on the other hand I can see why and how Edwards might strive for professionalism. Which indeed proves that there is an agenda not obvious at first look.
There are those indie publishers who are professional, have their own booth separated from others nad are really cool and such. And than there are those other petty independent publisher... rather don't even mention them, because they are such fools and dilettante and whatever because they don't want to share the booth with those profis and istead they share with puppets... WTF? I wonder, what would he said, if one would sell eg. Puppetland together with puppets. I mean that would be wise and profi marketing in my eyes... :pundit:
How does that puppets look like...? (It's probalby taken out of context, maybe he mentioned that these puppets are unprofessional, meaning they are so ugly he will be ashamed to sell them)
Quote from: Kyle AaronThey might, for example, reckon it's a good idea to walk up to women at cons and ask if they can touch their breasts (http://theferrett.livejournal.com/1087686.html) - and when one or two sad ones say "yes", decide to start a whole project about it, with buttons and everything.
I'm just...I mean...what the hell is wrong with these people ? And the way how the piece is written.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David RI'm just...I mean...
Regards,
David R
Yeah, the story that Kyle linked to has that effect on a lot of people. Just one giant brain-freezing moment of WTF?
I believe Ron Edwards is available at sorcerer@sorcerer-rpg.com
Maybe Bert always wants to play Rolemaster when Ernie wants to play Tunnels & Trolls?
This is slightly off-topic, but -
Would they sell more if they made puppets of elves and orcs and so on?
Quote from: Age of FableThis is slightly off-topic, but -
Would they sell more if they made puppets of elves and orcs and so on?
Actually - thats not a bad idea. I could see a GM feeling a little bit more "looser" to do silly character voices if they had a puppet of an orc or elf available.
Not sure it would work well with my group......who knows?
But some RPG groups that might work out just fine.
- Ed C.
Re the breasts thing...
Surely swingers' parties are already existing examples of the kind of thing he was talking about?
Also, I don't have a lot of confidence in his idea of "it's nothing to do with trying to hook up"...if I'd been touching breasts all day, I'm pretty sure that for me it would be very much about wanting to hook up.
Or, re puppets again:
there are a fair few designs that could be used for gaming and for children's puppet shows: the more 'fairy story' side of fantasy like goblins/trolls/orcs, knights, fairies, princesses, dragons etc.
Well, there you have it. The "indie" aesthetic was all a facade for a crass commercial backbone.
These schmucks have been trying to appropriate "punk" and DIY for their commercial enterprise/ponzi scheme for the last 8 years so I'm not surprised to hear it. It's such an obvious lie, I can't believe nobody else saw it.
Quote from: David RPuppet play and game play are incompatible.
Regards,
David R
I don't know about that. Can you imagine a giant hex board, that you used puppets as miniatures on for rpg combat?! Freaking awesome.
Quote from: Age of FableMaybe Bert always wants to play Rolemaster when Ernie wants to play Tunnels & Trolls?
Bert plays Mythic, by Tom Pigeon. Ernie is all about Glorantha in the tub. Duh.
Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, there you have it. The "indie" aesthetic was all a facade for a crass commercial backbone.
:what: It was a big secret that this was about a way for people to sell their games, that probably wouldn't otherwise even be published, and even make a little money along the way, more money in the author's pocket? :rolleyes: If it had been an attempt to keep that a secret it would be the worst attempt to keep a secret. Ever.
I say there is a difference between DIY enterprise and the classic pyramid scheme. Just as there is a difference between SST and Slash records.. and Amway.
The forge is Amway.
Quote from: Abyssal MawI say there is a difference between DIY enterprise and the classic pyramid scheme. Just as there is a difference between SST and Slash records.. and Amway.
The forge is Amway.
How? The Forge is charging fat franchising fees? :ponder:
No, the forge requires adherence, defense, and stealth promotion of the upper tiers of the pyramid before you can get your stuff in.
And there's no room for puppets in Amway.
Quote from: Abyssal MawNo, the forge requires adherence, defense, and stealth promotion of the upper tiers of the pyramid before you can get your stuff in.
You get that from Dr. Rotwang's retelling of a 2nd hand paraphrasing. What Dr.Rotwang said of course not actually say that at all.
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/bst/lowres/bstn128l.jpg)
Quote from: LancerCelebrity status? ..... Or is it infamy?
The only difference between fame and infamy is your opinion of the person. Over here we read that and say "Dude, WTF?" Over at the Forge the Ron supporters are patting their backs and pumping their fists (I assume, I don't go there).
And when you bolster the confidence of the Forgers, the terrorists win.
I got that from 8 years of context, Dwight. I ran out of cake in 2005. All I have left is icing.
Quote from: Abyssal MawI got that from 8 years of context...
.... and now you are seeing fucking snakes. "Well, there you have it."? Indeed, you've arrived at the point of fantasy becoming fact. So where along that 8 year line did you start scrambling to twist and grossly misinterpret any scrap of information to enforce your, in my opinion bizzaro, take that Forge=Amyway?
EDIT: BTW that is a rhetorical question. I expect you to be so far down the rabbit hole that you have no idea when you started.
Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, there you have it. The "indie" aesthetic was all a facade for a crass commercial backbone.
These schmucks have been trying to appropriate "punk" and DIY for their commercial enterprise/ponzi scheme for the last 8 years so I'm not surprised to hear it. It's such an obvious lie, I can't believe nobody else saw it.
Ummm...nobody? Haven't I said all along it's as much a marketing thing as anything else? Shame on you ;)
So, in other words......:
No Tiefling or Halfling puppets??
How about Beholders??
mindflayers??
- Ed C.
A CORRECTION
Behold a comment on my blog:
QuoteHey - Chris Engle here. Have to put in a correction. It wasn't Ron Edwards who said selling puppets was unprofessional. Actually it was John Kim how said that. Ron's never commented on the puppets (in fact I think I've sold him one...)
I only got the non-professional comment recently when I was up dating my web page. John Kim was kind enough to update his link to my site for which I am appreciative. I don't take the comment at all personally, not everyone likes puppets
I will continue to work on being more professional in my game offerings but it is a second job for me. Social Work pays the rent!
Chris Engle
http://hamsterpress.net
Apologies and retractions all 'round. No longer in Headscratchville.
Quote from: KoltarSo, in other words......:
No Tiefling or Halfling puppets??
How about Beholders??
mindflayers??
- Ed C.
Ed - turns out you've had the best take on this entire conversation. Kudos.
aw snap...too late for rpglolbats (http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/5030/rpglolbatsob9.gif) then, i guess. :D
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!A CORRECTION
Behold a comment on my blog:
Looks like Ada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway) got a black ops team out to him to put a lid on this. :tinfoil:
So, shouldn't this thread be called John Kim Vs My Friends .
Regards,
David R
Quote from: droogI believe Ron Edwards is available at sorcerer@sorcerer-rpg.com
We can't send puppets of protest to an e-mail address. What's his snail mail one?
Seanchai
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Apologies and retractions all 'round.
Eh, too bad. Only losers get a hate on for John Kim.
Seanchai
Since DOC is a moderator type - He could change the thread title.
- Ed C.
When he said that, did the puppet scrunch up and lean over slowly in that puppet sad face move? That always gets me right in the heart, that move.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!A CORRECTION
Behold a comment on my blog:
Apologies and retractions all 'round. No longer in Headscratchville.
Damn. Well I guess I owe Ron Edwards an apology. Sorry for pooping on you, Ron.
As for John Kim? I think that he is great...FOR ME TO POOP ON!
(http://www.thrashed.net/swf/triumph_head.jpg)
:haw:
TGA
You'll notice, I changed the thread title AND edited the first post.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!You'll notice, I changed the thread title AND edited the first post.
:win:
John Kim you bastard!
I actually kind of like John Kim, but you have to understand who he is: He's probably one of the greatest RPG historians we have, and yet he doesn't understand a fucking thing about D&D. If you can hold those two concepts in your mind simultaneously, you will know the way of Kim.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!You'll notice, I changed the thread title AND edited the first post.
I think that this thread is great...FOR ME TO POOP ON!
(http://www.thrashed.net/swf/triumph_head.jpg)
:haw:
OK, I'll stop now.
TGA
Good.
That means you must be all pooped out.
- Ed
Talk about word association.
When he wrote John Kim + puppets for some reason up until a few minutes ago I kept picturing JongWK + his puppet avatar (Kim Jong-il).
Nothing to add to the thread. Just thought I'd share. :)
Pete
Just s we're clear, I got nothin' 'gainst no John Kim, 'cause frankly, I thought Chris' website needed updating a long time ago. It looks nicer now, though!
I'm laughing here.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!No, I believe they asked him to not be there anymore.
So where'd this come from?
It sounds like John said
and Chris & his wife reacted , but once you fill in the blanks there's no story at all regardless of whether it was John or Ron.
Well, I guess the Doc thought a news item with Ron in it would go down well around here. Nice troll, Doc....
Dude! OK, digging through my email records, here was our conversation from March. Chris - I hope you don't mind my quoting our emails, but it seems to have gotten around...
His request:
QuoteJohn
Can you update my web page on you RPG list? I've finally gone to a professional looking page and want people to be able to find it!
Thanks! Chris Engle
And my reply:
QuoteOK, I've added it to your company listing.
Though, I have to say, having little hamsters and puppets on your web page is clearly unprofessional. I also think there are some role-playing games, which I think are some kind of kidsy thing. :-)
- John
Astute observers may notice that there is a
smiley after my comments, and that I add in a note about how role-playing games are a kidsy thing, which -- in context -- should be interpreted as humorous rather than a serious criticism. BTW, here's his web site banner,
(http://www.hamsterpress.net/themes/clients/hamsterpress/assets/img/HPKEPLogo.jpg)
Speaking in a serious manner, I don't think it is unprofessional - but it is a little cutesy and silly, and so I thought it might be appropriate to kid about it.
Quote from: jhkimSpeaking in a serious manner, I don't think it is unprofessional - but it is a little cutesy and silly, and so I thought it might be appropriate to kid about it.
The truth is a downer. Seriously, dude. We were having fun. We had fiery puppets and had all gotten our jackboots polished up to march in Pundit's Army. Now all we have is, "Uh, dude, I was just joking..." Boo. Hiss. Try again.
Seanchai
Quote from: SeanchaiThe truth is a downer. Seriously, dude. We were having fun. We had fiery puppets and had all gotten our jackboots polished up to march in Pundit's Army. Now all we have is, "Uh, dude, I was just joking..." Boo. Hiss. Try again.
Seanchai
No, no. John Kim hates hamsters. Hamsters are kind of like squirrels without tails. So, John Kim thinks Hinterwelt Games is unprofessional. See?
Pete
Quote from: pspahnSo, John Kim thinks Hinterwelt Games is unprofessional.
At least that's something everyone here could get behind.
Quote from: pspahnNo, no. John Kim hates hamsters. Hamsters are kind of like squirrels without tails. So, John Kim thinks Hinterwelt Games is unprofessional. See?
OK, so not wanting to disappoint...
I hate hamsters, squirrels, and puppets. And not only is making a game with squirrels or hamsters unprofessional, it is
immoral -- second only to making a game with elves that doesn't involve the words "anal" and "oral".
Oh, and to walkerp-ize myself, unprofessional RPG makers shouldn't just be hounded out of the market, but killed to make room for more natural life (except, of course, for hamsters and squirrels).
:insane:
Quote from: droogWell, I guess the Doc thought a news item with Ron in it would go down well around here. Nice troll, Doc....
Yeah, okay. Way my wife understood it and told me, it was like RE was dissin' on Chris. I was all, "Dude! What...?" So I posted it 'cause I was kinda ticked/confused.
WhhhhhhhhhUPPS.
Think what you want, droog. I cowboyed up and apologized and moved on.
I have already burned several puppets in effigy. You people owe me.
Quote from: SeanchaiThe truth is a downer. Seriously, dude. We were having fun. We had fiery puppets and had all gotten our jackboots polished up to march in Pundit's Army. Now all we have is, "Uh, dude, I was just joking..." Boo. Hiss. Try again.
And I was so hoping it would reach the stage when we discovered that people were secretly crying out for help from the tryanny of puppet play.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: Seanchai(Although, personally, I find folks banging puppets to be disgusting, Lars and the Real Girl aside).
Google "Teddy Babe"
I dare you :eek:
:D
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Think what you want, droog. I cowboyed up and apologized and moved on.
You want your leg back?
Quote from: jhkimOK, so not wanting to disappoint...
I hate hamsters, squirrels, and puppets. And not only is making a game with squirrels or hamsters unprofessional, it is immoral -- second only to making a game with elves that doesn't involve the words "anal" and "oral".
Oh, and to walkerp-ize myself, unprofessional RPG makers shouldn't just be hounded out of the market, but killed to make room for more natural life (except, of course, for hamsters and squirrels).
:insane:
Bring it on Bitches!!
:duel:
Bill
Edit: Well, sorry, that wasn't very professional. Should read "Eat my nuts bitches!"
This site is purely for aardvarkian "adventure" gaming. We will have none of your great story nut squirrelnista "thematic" play here. Remember folks Bill started all of this with his "colon damage" post.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: HinterWeltBring it on Bitches!!
:duel:
Bill
Edit: Well, sorry, that wasn't very professional. Should read "Eat my nuts bitches!"
"Know Your Nuts - Handle Them Every Day!"
Quote from: David RThis site is purely for aardvarkian "adventure" gaming. We will have none of your great story nut squirrelnista "thematic" play here. Remember folks Bill started all of this with his "colon damage" post.
Regards,
David R
Ummm...are you saying we can't discuss aardvarkian story games?
Fascist.
Quote from: James J SkachUmmm...are you saying we can't discuss aardvarkian story games?
Fascist.
Stories are just a byproduct of Aardvarkian adventure play!
Pinko-commie hippy!
-clash
Quote from: David RThis site is purely for aardvarkian "adventure" gaming. We will have none of your great story nut squirrelnista "thematic" play here. Remember folks Bill started all of this with his "colon damage" post.
Regards,
David R
It is sad really. You have played Aardvarks so long you don't even realize you are not having fun. The biggest part is that you do not now you have colon damage anyway. You just keep tooling away at you Aardvarks and Ant Hills thinking "Oh, I am having fun" but really, you just don't understand that there are alternatives out there. A whole squirrel style of gaming is so much more fun. Remember folks, the Big Nut model of play, Squirrel-Cat-Dog or SCD, can be your guide to cognizant game design.
Bill
Quote from: droogYou want your leg back?
That wasn't my leg. :naughty:
Quote from: flyingmiceStories are just a byproduct of Aardvarkian adventure play!
Pinko-commie hippy!
-clash
Well, yeah, but Aardvarkian games are insensitive according to SCD. You just can't produce fun stories with insensitively designed games.
Squirrels, the other white meat.
Bill
Huh huh huh. "Not my leg." "Meat".
Huh huh. Huh huh huh huh huh.
Huh huh.
Oh noes, James Skach has been nibbling on the Bill's Story Nut. Once bitten forever will it dominate your game play.
Quote from: HinterWeltIt is sad really. You have played Aardvarks so long you don't even realize you are not having fun. The biggest part is that you do not now you have colon damage anyway. You just keep tooling away at you Aardvarks and Ant Hills thinking "Oh, I am having fun" but really, you just don't understand that there are alternatives out there. A whole squirrel style of gaming is so much more fun. Remember folks, the Big Nut model of play, Squirrel-Cat-Dog or SCD, can be your guide to cognizant game design.
Please stop saying game design. Squirrel play is not real play. All you have is a few deranged nuts rolling about spewing the Big Nut theory which is so full of holes and pretending to create art. You have no knowledge of gaming lore or strategic thinking . Squirrel play is a pyramid scheme.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David ROh noes, James Skach has been nibbling on the Bill's Story Nut. Once bitten forever will it dominate your game play.
Please stop saying game design. Squirrel play is not real play. All you have is a few deranged nuts rolling about spewing the Big Nut theory which is so full of holes and pretending to create art. You have no knowledge of gaming lore or strategic thinking . Squirrel play is a pyramid scheme.
Regards,
David R
Pshaw. A&A is great if you want to do Ant Hill crawls - everyone knows that. But if you really want to role-play you need to understand SCD and play squirrel games.
Go. Nuts.
(Bill, we need a clever little green background, white acorn symbol).
Quote from: David ROh noes, James Skach has been nibbling on the Bill's Story Nut. Once bitten forever will it dominate your game play.
Please stop saying game design. Squirrel play is not real play. All you have is a few deranged nuts rolling about spewing the Big Nut theory which is so full of holes and pretending to create art. You have no knowledge of gaming lore or strategic thinking . Squirrel play is a pyramid scheme.
Regards,
David R
Squirrel play is all about fun and actual play with your nuts. No one can argue that is bad. Heck, even if you do not have your own nuts you can always play with some one else's nuts. A&A leaves you high and dry if you do not have your own ant hill.
Big Nut Theory is the only viable theory in RPGs today. Think about your last A&A game. What? Maybe 20 minutes of ant in 4 hours of play? That is because it is insensitive and non-cognizant. You're colon damaged and don't even know it. And don't even get me started on what Cheetos do to your rectum...
Really, take a hard look at your game. Does it fit SCD? No, why not? Most likely because you cannot sit in one place for all the bleeding from your colon. Eat more nuts man!
Bill
(http://www.hinterwelt.com/images/GoNut.jpg)
Quote from: HinterWelt(http://www.hinterwelt.com/images/GoNut.jpg)
Brilliant. Except it should be Nuts....
Quote from: James J SkachBrilliant. Except it should be Nuts....
Depends on what you are doing...think about it. ;)
Bill
Quote from: HinterWeltDepends on what you are doing...think about it. ;)
Bill
It's perfect....
Thanks Doc - I don't care what kind of mistake you made to start this magnificent mess - but I got the koolest icon evar!
Finally - one for d20 Haven (http://www.d20have.com/forums) of which I can be proud...
...wow.
Just -- just....
...
...wow.
By the way, if you're not playing with SCD in mind, you are educated stupid. 4-corner dice are the truth.
Nuts constipate me. I'm going to stick with what we know has been absolutely proven by the market to work! Screw this namby-pamby tree-rodent talk, talk, talk. Come on, it's just a pack of hobbist wannabes wanking off. Professional? Dudes it's squirrels. Squirrels, and usually about sexually amoral stuff too. Putting the Wedding Cake in peril is just double talk for an agenda to undermine the Family.
AA&A till I die, baby. Think of the Children.
Quote from: DwightAA&A till I die, baby.
Forget AA&A. A&A 3e is much better, because it is using unified rock-paper-scissors. And you can play bunch of other rock-paper-scissors games such as Rock-paper-scissors Forest, where you can play much more anything not just ants.
A plague on both your houses! You AA&A grognards are inflexible fossils fixed in your own matrix of moribund, meaningless play! You koolaid-swilling SDC sans-culottes are waving the red flag of revolution over an intellectually bankrupt and morally despicable theory, throwing out babies with every pan of bathwater!
I will go my own way! Evolution, not revolution or stagnation!
/me shakes elderly fist at young hoodlums
-clash
Quote from: DwightNuts constipate me. I'm going to stick with what we know has been absolutely proven by the market to work! Screw this namby-pamby tree-rodent talk, talk, talk. Come on, it's just a pack of hobbist wannabes wanking off. Professional? Dudes it squirrels, and usually about sexually amoral stuff too. Wedding Cake is just double talk for an agenda to undermine the Family.
A&A till I die, baby. Think of the Children.
It's wedding
PIE numbnuts! You are there to save Princess Cashewe's Wedding Pie. THAT is a REAL story. You obviously have not read the proper material and I just can't discuss Big Nut Theory until you have.
And Nuts are good for your colon man! Fiber flushes the system. Ants just give you the runs with their high fructose content. Colon damage.
Bill
Quote from: HinterWeltIt's wedding PIE numbnuts!
Good lord it's worse than I thought. So this is some sort of "alternative" marriage then? One that is only legal in Massachusetts and other extreme Nut-leaning states?
Freaks.
Quote from: flyingmiceA plague on both your houses! You AA&A grognards are inflexible fossils fixed in your own matrix of moribund, meaningless play! You koolaid-swilling SDC sans-culottes are waving the red flag of revolution over an intellectually bankrupt and morally despicable theory, throwing out babies with every pan of bathwater!
I will go my own way! Evolution, not revolution or stagnation!
/me shakes elderly fist at young hoodlums
-clash
See, but you don't realize that you are REALLY just following SCD and Big Nut Theory anyway. Uplifted animals? Just a version of true squirrel play. Its o.k. though, I understand how you are misguided and ignorant of theory. I mean, you just have not realized what you were doing all along was sensitive and cognizant design. Keep at it though, you'll get there eventually.
Bill
While your fixation on Big Nuts is somewhat disturbing, the repeated use of the letter zed in cognisant is really starting to wierd me out.
Quote from: DwightGood lord it's worse than I thought. So this is some sort of "alternative" marriage then? One that is only legal in Massachusetts and other extreme Nut-leaning states?
Freaks.
Are you that parochial? Do you have that much hate? Are that close minded?
Well, that is colon damage for you...
Bill
Quote from: DwightWhile your fixation on Big Nuts is somewhat disturbing, the repeated use of the letter zed in cognisant is really starting to wierd me out.
That is because you just don't understand theory, the necessary terms or the application. I mean, come on, cognisant is not the same as cognizant. Sheesh!
Bill
Quote from: DwightWhile your fixation on Big Nuts is somewhat disturbing, the repeated use of the letter zed in cognisant is really starting to wierd me out.
SDC has defined
cognizant as "play composed only of either S, D, or C elements, i.e. optimal play, good play. Antonym: See Mongrel" - from Chairman Bill's own essay
Toward Cognizant Play: Get your Ants out of my Tree!Cognisant is just English. You can find it in any dull, ordinary dictionary.
And there is no letter zed! That's a zee, you moose-lover!
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceSDC has defined cognizant as "play composed only of either S, D, or C elements, i.e. optimal play, good play. Antonym: See Mongrel" - from Chairman Bill's own essay Toward Cognizant Play: Get your Ants out of my Tree!
So that orange line above your lip is a stain from drinking the Kool-aid? EDIT: No wait, that stain is a
light brown isn't it?
Eww.
I'm late to the party, but my first thought was: "Puppets? Where?! I LOVE puppets!" :keke:
Quote from: Goblinoid GamesGoogle "Teddy Babe"
I dare you
I Googled "Teddy Ruxpin Babe" and did, indeed, get some weird results...
Seanchai
The Great Nutter Bill himself has divorced himself from the hobby. In his article "Why We Go Nuts" he admits that the goal of squirrelism is enjoying your own nuts or perhaps someone elses. This is clearly not a game but an excercise in wankerism.
He goes further. He claims that with the populairty of shows like Meerkat Mansion, the time is ripe for squirrel play to go mainstream. This he states in "Swallowing Them Whole".
And his "say hello to my little friend" post here displays his disdain for AA style gamers. I hereby declare this war over. The Squirrelnistas have shown they are bankrupt of ideas. The siege has begun.
I will take a two week break from posting since there's nothing new to discuss.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!By the way, if you're not playing with SCD in mind, you are educated stupid. 4-corner dice are the truth.
It's true!
(http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/images/111/3197.jpg)
I shall start life anew as SDC Pundit.
I shall have a fixation with my adopted homeland of Paraguay, the Elks Lodge, and Chewing Tobacco.
I've got a problem with Big Nuts play because it only really applies to those nuts that grow on trees, however the Peanut grows underground and thus is more applicable to dungeon style adventures and is thus immune to Squirrels.
Is there some way to bring Peanut play more into the SDC model without complicating the paradigm by introducing Chipmunks?
Quote from: jeff37923I've got a problem with Big Nuts play because it only really applies to those nuts that grow on trees, however the Peanut grows underground and thus is more applicable to dungeon style adventures and is thus immune to Squirrels.
Is there some way to bring Peanut play more into the SDC model without complicating the paradigm by introducing Chipmunks?
See Chipmonks are already integral to the Squirrel play. Squirrel, only in the most narrow of definitions, is restricted to tree rats. All forms of rodentia fall under this umbrella concept since Squirrel no longer means just squirrel. The medium requires we redefine terms else we cannot discuss role-play theory with any meaning.
Oh, and note, it is Chipmonk not the vulgar Chipmunk. The Chipmonk paradigm resolves the peanut controversy nicely without muddying the waters or making the design incognizant or insensitive.
Bill
Quote from: HinterWeltOh, and note, it is Chipmonk not the vulgar Chipmunk. The Chipmonk paradigm resolves the peanut controversy nicely without muddying the waters or making the design incognizant or insensitive.
Bill
Now I'm a bit more confused, by Chipmonk are talking about the AA&A "Cloistered" Chipmonk or the AA&A2 "Kung Fu" Chipmonk. Because, you know, one is better suited to roll-playing a while the other is better suited to role-playing.
The scary/funny/why-I-love-him part is that Bill is using all of this to write a game.
Be prepared. You have been warned.