It appears that the metal ratings changed sometime this month on DriveThruRPG. They added a few new levels. Does anyone have insight as to how many sales it takes to get a medal? I didn't realize that DriveThru sold so many rpgs, I went to RPGNow for all my pdfs and print on demands.

Any guess?

I looked around, but couldn't find any solid numbers. All I saw was that the old numbers were smaller than you would expect(vague, I know), and that someone thinks there might be an algorithm that works by proportions, not set numbers(no evidence one way or the other).

The Adamantine list is super depressing, too. Exalted 3e made it, but Stars Without Number didn't? Lame! And a full 15 of the 33 products in that section are that Hero Kids stuff. I ain't never seen anyone talk about playing that, so who the hell is buying so much of it?

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1061870I looked around, but couldn't find any solid numbers. All I saw was that the old numbers were smaller than you would expect(vague, I know), and that someone thinks there might be an algorithm that works by proportions, not set numbers(no evidence one way or the other).

The Adamantine list is super depressing, too. Exalted 3e made it, but Stars Without Number didn't? Lame! And a full 15 of the 33 products in that section are that Hero Kids stuff. I ain't never seen anyone talk about playing that, so who the hell is buying so much of it?

Nobody buys porn either... those non-customers are probably more willing to talk about the porn they aren't buying than those games too.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1061870I looked around, but couldn't find any solid numbers. All I saw was that the old numbers were smaller than you would expect(vague, I know), and that someone thinks there might be an algorithm that works by proportions, not set numbers(no evidence one way or the other).

The Adamantine list is super depressing, too. Exalted 3e made it, but Stars Without Number didn't? Lame! And a full 15 of the 33 products in that section are that Hero Kids stuff. I ain't never seen anyone talk about playing that, so who the hell is buying so much of it?

According to the list, Zweihander is #1 of all time, followed by Mage the Awakening, Exalted and Blades in the Dark. That's cray-cray to think those are the three bestselling titles on Drive Thru RPG.

Half of the games in the list I haven't ever played.

Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061848It appears that the metal ratings changed sometime this month on DriveThruRPG. They added a few new levels. Does anyone have insight as to how many sales it takes to get a medal? I didn't realize that DriveThru sold so many rpgs, I went to RPGNow for all my pdfs and print on demands.

Any guess?

RPGNow is technically part of DriveThru since they merged back in the late 2000s. I only remember that because RoninArts pulled their products due to disagreements with the new policy. (Now they are only available at Paizo's online store.)

The weird thing is that they track sales separately, so their metal lists look completely different.
https://www.rpgnow.com/metal.php
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/metal.php

Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061948According to the list, Zweihander is #1 of all time, followed by Mage the Awakening, Exalted and Blades in the Dark. That's cray-cray to think those are the three bestselling titles on Drive Thru RPG.

Half of the games in the list I haven't ever played.

Chronicles of Darkness being in the top is really weird, because I was under the impression that World of Darkness was vastly more popular.

The lesson I would take from this is that OneBookShelf is not a reliable source of market data. Especially because RPGNow and DriveThruRPG, which use the same database, have contradictory metal awards pages.

As far as reliable sources go (i.e. retailers, distributors, manufacturers), ICv2 has consistently placed D&D, Pathfinder, and Star Wars in the top five for the past three years (the only years I could find). I don't know if that includes PDF sales or only physical book sales. I assume that the fact that most physical bookstores went out of business in the past decade would force a move to the digital market.

However, WotC refuses to sell PDFs presumably due to irrational fears of piracy. Remember their infamous 2008 hissy fit when they pulled all their products from OneBookShelf? Then they had the audacity to backpedal but they refused to bring back most of their non-D&D catalog which ironically forces potential buyers to pirate anyway.

I tried searching for data on the tabletop RPG market, but the overall consensus seems to be that there isn't reliable public data. All we can really be sure of is that D&D has consistently dominated the market since ever and everything else is subject to intense fluctuation.

Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061948According to the list, Zweihander is #1 of all time, followed by Mage the Awakening, Exalted and Blades in the Dark. That's cray-cray to think those are the three bestselling titles on Drive Thru RPG.

  Zweihander probably gets in there in part by showing up more frequently than any other product in the Daily Deal offers.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1061950RPGNow is technically part of DriveThru since they merged back in the late 2000s. I only remember that because RoninArts pulled their products due to disagreements with the new policy. (Now they are only available at Paizo's online store.)

The weird thing is that they track sales separately, so their metal lists look completely different.
https://www.rpgnow.com/metal.php
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/metal.php



Chronicles of Darkness being in the top is really weird, because I was under the impression that World of Darkness was vastly more popular.

The lesson I would take from this is that OneBookShelf is not a reliable source of market data. Especially because RPGNow and DriveThruRPG, which use the same database, have contradictory metal awards pages.

As far as reliable sources go (i.e. retailers, distributors, manufacturers), ICv2 has consistently placed D&D, Pathfinder, and Star Wars in the top five for the past three years (the only years I could find). I don't know if that includes PDF sales or only physical book sales. I assume that the fact that most physical bookstores went out of business in the past decade would force a move to the digital market.

However, WotC refuses to sell PDFs presumably due to irrational fears of piracy. Remember their infamous 2008 hissy fit when they pulled all their products from OneBookShelf? Then they had the audacity to backpedal but they refused to bring back most of their non-D&D catalog which ironically forces potential buyers to pirate anyway.

I tried searching for data on the tabletop RPG market, but the overall consensus seems to be that there isn't reliable public data. All we can really be sure of is that D&D has consistently dominated the market since ever and everything else is subject to intense fluctuation.

I would guess their numbers don't match industry numbers because the larger games probably see the bulk of their sales through their own sites and the more traditional distribution networks (B&M shops, Amazon). Drivethru/ RPGNow probably skews heavily towards the smaller less well known games.


A lot of the classic TSR / WOTC games are currently available at Drivethru and presumably RPGNow as well (I use the DT side, so can't say for sure), Boothill, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, they even offer print on demand for most.

Looking at the ones at the top it makes one wonder just how much the system is being manipulated, again, and how many palms are being greased to get those numbers nudged just so?

I for one look forward to the bismuth metal award!

Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061948According to the list, Zweihander is #1 of all time, followed by Mage the Awakening, Exalted and Blades in the Dark. That's cray-cray to think those are the three bestselling titles on Drive Thru RPG.

Half of the games in the list I haven't ever played.

Zweihander has been the deal of the day almost every other week. I suppose the ranking makes sense in light of that.

Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061848It appears that the metal ratings changed sometime this month on DriveThruRPG. They added a few new levels. Does anyone have insight as to how many sales it takes to get a medal? I didn't realize that DriveThru sold so many rpgs, I went to RPGNow for all my pdfs and print on demands.

Any guess?

The metal awards have been:

Copper 51-100
Silver 101-250
Electrum 251-500
Gold 501-1000
Platinum 1001+

I'm not sure what Mithral and Adamantine work out to be but my guess would be that Platinum is now 1001-2500, Mithril is 2501-5000 and Adamantine is 5001+.

If I ran Drivethru the Metal ratings would be



Motorhead
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Deep Purple
Blue Oyster Cult
Black Sabbath
Iron Butterfly

Quote from: Toadmaster;1062415If I ran Drivethru the Metal ratings would be



Motorhead
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Deep Purple
Blue Oyster Cult
Black Sabbath
Iron Butterfly

I could look up which games' concerts I've been to.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1061950Chronicles of Darkness being in the top is really weird, because I was under the impression that World of Darkness was vastly more popular.

Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness were the same thing up until Paradox bought the rights to White Wolf lock stock and barrel from CCP a few years back. Paradox/White Wolf only had them re-name the "New World of Darkness" to "Chronicles of Darkness" recently to avoid brand confusion...

Also remember, White Wolf as a company right now has only put out a single product... "Vampire the Masquerade 5th edition".... All Previous "World of Darkness" products including all of the 20th anniversary books have been put out by Onyx Path.

Quote from: Orphan81;1062576Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness were the same thing up until Paradox bought the rights to White Wolf lock stock and barrel from CCP a few years back. Paradox/White Wolf only had them re-name the "New World of Darkness" to "Chronicles of Darkness" recently to avoid brand confusion...

Also remember, White Wolf as a company right now has only put out a single product... "Vampire the Masquerade 5th edition".... All Previous "World of Darkness" products including all of the 20th anniversary books have been put out by Onyx Path.

I was under the impression that the classic world was more popular than the new world. Although the numbers for the metals suggests that the numbers are actually quite small in general. There are millions of people in the hobby and in the digital/POD era the most popular games have only sold a few thousand copies at most? Clearly the audience for these games must be very small.

Not that I am particularly interested since I perceive the whole X of Darkness as suffering from systemic problems with the rules and fluff that prevent me from consuming it. There are better indie games out there now.