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Author Topic: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse  (Read 1717 times)

CD

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Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« on: September 18, 2021, 11:51:46 AM »
Hitting back at people that tell us to shut up about these issues.

Any thoughts on this you want to share?
Do you agree?
https://youtu.be/kKxDZRz-Zz4

Ocule

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2021, 06:21:28 PM »
Great video, although I will say the biggest issue I’ve run into with groups that allow discussion is that all dissenting opinions are quashed. Like you can discuss these issues only if you align with the mods point of view.
Read my Consumer's Guide to TTRPGs
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oggsmash

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2021, 06:35:19 PM »
  No one has ever changed their minds in an argument.  I do agree having it is good, because what it REALLY does is allow people who are questioning to listen and maybe go look for themselves.  People crush dissent for that very reason.   They do not worry about zealots on their side relenting, they know, often a great deal of the other folks around them just go along to get along.  Give them some friction to grip and things could change, thus, dissent is not tolerated.  It is pretty much everywhere now.

Ocule

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2021, 06:37:42 PM »
Yeah but when you just get ban hammered almost immediately it’s hard to make an argument
Read my Consumer's Guide to TTRPGs
here. This is a living document.

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oggsmash

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2021, 07:28:22 PM »
Yeah but when you just get ban hammered almost immediately it’s hard to make an argument

 I agree, and it is the point about why the ban hammer comes down so fast.   I would also say, if you are at the point where you arguing the point of some foul culture elements in a game forum, you probably paid attention to the shift in the wind way, way too late.   By the time it hits gaming, it was already in several other places, but with lives to live, jobs to work, kids to raise, most people do not have time to pay attention to it until it starts hitting them in the hobbies.   

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2021, 07:31:43 PM »
Good video, but it was a little broad in some regards.

What type of discussions do you want to foster. Are you wanting to bring in real world politics democrats vs conservatives. Or is it more on gaming issues?

Now, I love a good debate... And you can't argue with facts and logic (unless you are deficient in some way). I've been proven wrong in the past and I use it as a platform to grow and learn.

The problem with gaming is you can't reason with people who think that they are 100% right all the time and not open to the slightest criticism. And that the other side (us) are 'pure evil'. It's like dealing with a religious Zealot no matter what you put in front of them they cannot be convinced. No matter how paper thin their actual argument is.

Now, if gamers on TBP wanted to have a civilised chat to understand the other side, I'd be all for it. But they do not want to listen. Now, as time has gone on, we have got pissed off at the censorship nanny state and woke scolding. Constant ad-hominem attacks without any tangible basis is annoying. That's what drew me to Pundit's work some years back. I was sick of the lies being told, and the same babyish 'emotional' arguments being put forward to us ‘adults’.

Now, personally, I've decided to treat fire with fire and become a contrarian. So fuck 'em...  They can call me whatever they want. I offer them a two fingered salute. Now, I want to see a schism in the hobby more than ever. In fact, I want the small indie creators to take the hobby back underground where it belongs and will thrive and be unrestrained. That's always where the best art is created.

The woke scolds are more than welcome to have their commercial and banal WoTC, and other big names, games. Basically the 'America's got talent version' of the art. Basically, trite nonsense made possible by large games companies pandering to a vocal twitter minority. They can have it. :)

Their sanctimonious real world moralizing has no place in imaginary Elf games. Well, not mine or anyone else who doesn’t give a toss about it. They can play all that crap if they want, of course. It’s none of my business and vice-versa.

"Attack minded and dangerously so." - W.E. Fairbairn.

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Shasarak

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2021, 07:36:13 PM »
Have you ever seen these people debate anything?

It’s only the naive people that think there are any honest actors that want to debate.
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2021, 07:47:13 PM »
Have you ever seen these people debate anything?

It’s only the naive people that think there are any honest actors that want to debate.

In theory the idea is fine... But as you rightly pointed out, it could never work with that lot.
"Attack minded and dangerously so." - W.E. Fairbairn.

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hedgehobbit

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2021, 08:21:43 PM »
Hitting back at people that tell us to shut up about these issues.

Any thoughts on this you want to share?

Debate amongst gamers is pointless for two reasons: 1) There is no central forum or method where a consensus could possibly be reached, and 2) the divisive politics are being pushed by corporations, not by gamers as a whole. So even if 90% of gamers agreed on an issue, that wouldn't affect the type of RPG products that were produced my the largest RPG companies.

Yeti Spaghetti

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2021, 08:49:07 PM »
Wokism is an ideological minority attempting to force its views on society because it can't win a debate. I'm not sure how you're supposed to debate with that. Better to break away, ignore, form separate groups, and let wokism die an eventual death.

RebelSky

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2021, 09:57:51 PM »
Wokism is an ideological minority attempting to force its views on society because it can't win a debate. I'm not sure how you're supposed to debate with that. Better to break away, ignore, form separate groups, and let wokism die an eventual death.

Correct.

It's impossible for the Tolerant to have any kind if real debate or conversation with those who are 100% Intolerant. And the Woke Left is as Intolerant as they come.

tenbones

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2021, 03:17:22 PM »
I had my friend that speaks Canadian translate it for me. Good video.

Trond

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2021, 11:37:17 PM »
I don’t get it. Are you saying that we’re NOT having the arguments? I see nothing but online. I think the biggest problems actually come from having them in forums (like here sadly)  and Twitter etc rather than talking to people in person. So in that sense I suppose I agree. We’re not having enough debates in person. We all have a nasty tendency to take everything too seriously, and be too easily offended,  when we see it in writing, without the addition of facial expressions etc.

Spinachcat

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2021, 04:29:30 AM »
Life too short to spend time debating commie bitches. Unless that's your hobby.

Everything woke turns to shit, so the best course of action is segregation. Leave the SJWs to their Utopia and the rest of us can dice, drink and laugh at our own tables at our own conventions, perhaps with our own games.




Spinachcat

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Re: Drama In The Hobby - Trying To Avoid It Makes It Worse
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2021, 04:31:04 AM »
Now, I want to see a schism in the hobby more than ever. In fact, I want the small indie creators to take the hobby back underground where it belongs and will thrive and be unrestrained. That's always where the best art is created.

Hasn't that already occurred effectively?