QuoteThanks. But that's exactly what I don't understand. It uses BX rules for X, Y, and Z, and 1E for everything else. Except the stuff he changed.

I have a garbage memory. I like the OSR community (mostly LOL) but play Traveller or our non-OSR homebrew. I hang out here and the related MeWe and Discord groups. And the some Traveller Discords server.

But, I don't remember the differences between BX and 1E. Hence, my original question. (I give similar feedback to authors who say their books are like A, B, and C. Often, I don't know A, haven't read B, and hated C.)

There are many differences between B/X and 1E. 

My perspective comes from this point of view:

• I DM one group that uses OSE Advanced, playing in Greg's Forbidden Caverns of Archaia megadungeon. (18 months, averaging 4th level)
  
• I play in another OSE Advanced game as a player, running through Barrowmaze. (over 2 years averaging 6th-7th level)

During play, these are the differences that we have noticed, usually where OSE Advanced bumps up against the lack of 1E rules.

1. Spells: B/X spell lists are very terse, and utililirarian. Spells are meant for combat or interacting with the dungeon environment. 1E has a much larger array of spells, many of which are used by NPCs in Greg's megadungeons.
2. Hit Dice: B/X was only around for a small group of modules. Everything produced afterwards was either for BECMI or AD&D, and this assumed higher hit dice per level for both PCs and NPCs. B/X characters agasinst AD&D NPCs are at a hit point disadvantage.
3. Combat/Initiative: B/X uses a much simpler side based initiative that makes combat smooth and faster.  AD&D had a much more complex segmented initiative system that almost no one used back in the day, they just ran AD&D but used the B/X initiative system.
4. Magic Items: B/X had fewer magic items, bounded with lower bonuses. OSE Advanced imported many of these items, but they were, in many cases,  nerfed to fit into the OSE/B/X rules.  Greg's megadungeons, and other 1E based modules assume that you have the 1E versions of thes items.
5. Layout/Design: From what I've seen of the art and layout its superior to AD&D (that's not too hard considering what they had to work with back then), but also superior to OSE Advanced. In fact, it appears that he takes a pape out of Jeffrey Talanian's Hyperborea 3rd Edition in regards to layout and presentation. In fact, the preview page that I saw for the Thief shows that you can just about make your whole character right there on the two page class spread. Saving throws, starting equipment, to hit matrix, attack bonus.. all included right there for you.

OSE Advanced Sample

Sword +1, Frost Brand
Grants special benefits against fire and creatures with an affinity for fire.
▶ In extreme cold, casts light: 30' radius.
▶ Grants an attack bonus: +3 against fire-using or fire-dwelling creatures.
▶ Can extinguish fire: 50% chance of extinguishing a 10' radius area when thrust into fire. This also affects magical fire (but not instantaneous effects).
▶ Protects against fire: The wielder gains the following benefits:
e. Normal fire: Unharmed by non-magical fire.
f. Save bonus: Gain a +2 bonus to all saving throws versus fire-based magical or breath attacks. g. Fire-based damage: Is reduced by 1 point per damage die rolled. (Each die inflicts a minimum of 1
hit point damage.)

AD&D Sample

Sword +3, Frost Brand, +6 vs. firsusing/dwelling creatures
bestows the +6 bonus in a self-explanatory manner. The weapon does not shed any light, except when the air temperature is below 0" F, but it does give special benefits against fire, for its wielder is protected os if he or she were wearing a ring of fire resistance and whenever it is thrust into fires it has a 50% chance of extinguishing them in a 10' radius - including a wall of fire but excluding a fireball, meteor swarm, or flame strike.

As you can see, there is quite a disparity in the power level of these items. Using the OSE Advanced versions of these items in a 1E based adventure, puts you at a disadvantage.

There are numerous levels of subtle differences between the editions, and it looks like Gillespie is leaning into the power levels of AD&D, but merging it with the simplicity of B/X(OSE).

I'll see if I can remember any more differences. 

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on August 31, 2023, 05:33:06 PM

QuoteThanks. But that's exactly what I don't understand. It uses BX rules for X, Y, and Z, and 1E for everything else. Except the stuff he changed.

I have a garbage memory. I like the OSR community (mostly LOL) but play Traveller or our non-OSR homebrew. I hang out here and the related MeWe and Discord groups. And the some Traveller Discords server.

But, I don't remember the differences between BX and 1E. Hence, my original question. (I give similar feedback to authors who say their books are like A, B, and C. Often, I don't know A, haven't read B, and hated C.)

There are many differences between B/X and 1E. 

My perspective comes from this point of view:

<huge snip>

There are numerous levels of subtle differences between the editions, and it looks like Gillespie is leaning into the power levels of AD&D, but merging it with the simplicity of B/X(OSE).

I'll see if I can remember any more differences.

Wow! Thanks. That's actually pretty helpful - especially when you refer to how Greg uses the rule variants.

Hm. Mildly interested. Is this going to be a FOMO Kickstarter deal, or are they going to actual retail?

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on August 31, 2023, 05:33:06 PM
3. Combat/Initiative: B/X uses a much simpler side based initiative that makes combat smooth and faster.  AD&D had a much more complex segmented initiative system that almost no one used back in the day, they just ran AD&D but used the B/X initiative system.

We used individual initiative for PCs and batch initiative for NPCs. Was a workable middle ground. I do like to have weapon speed/casting time factor into initiative, and avoid the alpha strike of having one side go and wipe out the other side before they can react.
5 Parsecs has a similar system where you roll to see if you go before or after the opponents.

I haven't backed a kickstarter in over a decade. I think my last one was Golden Sky Stories. Got burned by a few too many. (Where's my fucking game, Skarka?).

That said, this sounds right up my alley. Backed. Until someone makes my private, secret dirty dream of game (A fully fleshed out and cleaned up AD&D2E retroclone), this seems great for me.

Quote from: Bruwulf on September 01, 2023, 10:08:58 AM
I haven't backed a kickstarter in over a decade. I think my last one was Golden Sky Stories. Got burned by a few too many. (Where's my fucking game, Skarka?).

That said, this sounds right up my alley. Backed. Until someone makes my private, secret dirty dream of game (A fully fleshed out and cleaned up AD&D2E retroclone), this seems great for me.

For Gold & Glory isn't good enough to check your boxes?

Quote from: Jam The MF on September 02, 2023, 02:59:26 AM
For Gold & Glory isn't good enough to check your boxes?

Not really. It's better than nothing, don't get me wrong! I like what he did, and I certainly enjoy it, but it's  not quite what I dream of.

But no denegation to Justen Brown! I applaud him for being the only one to even take a swing at doing a proper retroclone of the the most maligned edition of the pre-d20 era.

Quote from: Bruwulf on September 02, 2023, 08:52:05 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on September 02, 2023, 02:59:26 AM
For Gold & Glory isn't good enough to check your boxes?

Not really. It's better than nothing, don't get me wrong! I like what he did, and I certainly enjoy it, but it's  not quite what I dream of.

But no denegation to Justen Brown! I applaud him for being the only one to even take a swing at doing a proper retroclone of the the most maligned edition of the pre-d20 era.

In fairness,it's maligned for a lot of very valid reasons.  That being said, it's the last edition worthy of the D&D moniker.  Everything after TSR folded is DINO.

Looks like Dragonslayer has been issued a C&D order from Danial Proctor of Labyrinth Lord.

IMO, retrocloning 2nd Edition has always been a challenge for several reasons:

• It's the most diffuse and decentralized version of the game ever produced, with numerous options, modular rules sets, and variations.
• Its appeal is very much tied up with the settings and other material that's harder to reproduce with SRD modifications than many of the other editions.
• It suffers from 'middle child syndrome', being despised by much of the Old School (especially the Gygaxolators) and the 3E crowd.
• Much of what the game seemed to want to do is actually better served by systems much farther removed from AD&D than even 2nd Edition at its most daring got to be, so fans of its distinctive flavor are likely to migrate outside the D&D space altogether, let alone the OSR.

Quote from: jeff37923 on September 05, 2023, 08:53:24 PM
Looks like Dragonslayer has been issued a C&D order from Danial Proctor of Labyrinth Lord.

Well that seems... vague.

It's absurd and nonsensical, which is why I made it public.

Quote from: Gegilles on September 05, 2023, 10:16:22 PM
It's absurd and nonsensical, which is why I made it public.

Can somebody TLDW this for me?  What possible basis could Proctor have for a C&D.  And will you honor it?

I'm curious as to how it will handle the difference in power level, especially for fighters.

1e has much better attack progressions for fighters (basically +1 per level, vs +2 every 3 levels for B/X). 1e has different weapon damage for large creatures (1d12 for a long sword vs a large creature instead of just 1d8), exceptional strength for fighters and multiple attacks per round, plus if using UA, weapon specialization.

In B/X, Clerics fight almost as well as fighters (at 9th level, for instance, they have the same THAC0), plus the whole spells thing.

Quote from: Gegilles on September 05, 2023, 10:16:22 PM
It's absurd and nonsensical, which is why I made it public.

The letter makes it sound like you are copy pasting LL text and releasing it CC. Do you have any idea why he thinks this? Or is Dan Proctor having some kind of mental health crisis? I know he has had issues.

My overall impression of you two is that you are pretty abrasive* while he always seemed like a nice guy, but recent years seem to have been hard on him.

My politics are much closer to yours ofc, like most posters here. 😄

If I needed another reason to dislike Dan Proctor, this is it.