Quote from: Godsmonkey on June 11, 2021, 01:26:23 PM

Quote from: ScytheSong on June 11, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
Think of it from the point of view of the convention organizers. Most conventions operate on razor-thin margins and the abuse of volunteers. If they don't have rules in place and even one person catches COVID there, a lawsuit would destroy the convention. So the volunteer with a law degree says, "if we require everyone to be vaccinated, they can't sue us for getting COVID at our event." QED.

So what are the odds of proving you got COVID at the convention? Unless you can get contact tracing from everyone you interacted with, it's going to be tough.

IMO the best policy is to state on the tickets that you assume responsibility and the venue or event is not responsible.

I am no means a legal expert. However, from what I know, the burden of proof is much lower in a civil case than a criminal case.
In a criminal case you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (100%) but in a civil case it is enough if most of the jurors are convinced of someones guilt.

Danger-Con sounds more and more appealing, someone needs to make it a reality.

Quote from: Pat on June 11, 2021, 09:48:50 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 11, 2021, 09:15:16 AM
And there goes 'my body, my choice', right off into the sunset.

Good job, folks.

Yep.

The number of people lining up for jackboots in this thread is appalling.

Greetings!

Hi, Pat! I know the topics are serious.

However, when I read your comment here, I rolled laughing. So fucking true, all the pod-people so eager to get them a pair of Jackboots!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Wntrlnd on June 11, 2021, 01:52:07 PM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on June 11, 2021, 01:26:23 PM

Quote from: ScytheSong on June 11, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
Think of it from the point of view of the convention organizers. Most conventions operate on razor-thin margins and the abuse of volunteers. If they don't have rules in place and even one person catches COVID there, a lawsuit would destroy the convention. So the volunteer with a law degree says, "if we require everyone to be vaccinated, they can't sue us for getting COVID at our event." QED.

So what are the odds of proving you got COVID at the convention? Unless you can get contact tracing from everyone you interacted with, it's going to be tough.

IMO the best policy is to state on the tickets that you assume responsibility and the venue or event is not responsible.

I am no means a legal expert. However, from what I know, the burden of proof is much lower in a civil case than a criminal case.
In a criminal case you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (100%) but in a civil case it is enough if most of the jurors are convinced of someones guilt.

IIRC, the term is "preponderance of evidence" Not as high a bar as beyond reasonable doubt, but still a pretty high bar.

Besides, if a venue can assume no responsibility for the car they parked in their parking lot because they posted a disclaimer in fine print, I doubt they will be held responsible if they give apt warning to prospective Con goers.

Quote from: SHARK on June 11, 2021, 02:44:42 PM

Quote from: Pat on June 11, 2021, 09:48:50 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 11, 2021, 09:15:16 AM
And there goes 'my body, my choice', right off into the sunset.

Good job, folks.

Yep.

The number of people lining up for jackboots in this thread is appalling.

Greetings!

Hi, Pat! I know the topics are serious.

However, when I read your comment here, I rolled laughing. So fucking true, all the pod-people so eager to get them a pair of Jackboots!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I'm watching Italy - Turkey, the opening game of the 2020 European Soccer Championship. It is held at the Stadio Olimpico in Rome. It has seats for 70,000 spectators but only 16,000 were admitted. You can see them wearing masks and social distancing (dunno about vaccines). And yet the feeling of seeing again a soccer match with supporters (2,100 of them from Turkey they said) is so... dunno, the idea that we are returning to normalcy after a long fight. For the first time I feel optimistic. Time will tell.

These jackboots are really smart this time. They are wearing rubber on their soles, so that no one can hear them.

BTW, can't wait for the Second SS Division "Das Reich" to appear in the stands (I'm told that we are headed that way). I always dreamed to see a real Tiger tank in action! And...

BOY! Miracle by the Turkish goalkeeper! Sorry, see you later!

Quote from: Pat on June 11, 2021, 12:13:24 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 11, 2021, 10:25:35 AM

Quote from: Primarch_XI on June 11, 2021, 10:00:11 AM
This is a political thread pretending to be an RPG thread with only a tangential RPG convention link.

Agreed. I'm withdrawing from this before Pundit gets mad. If anyone wants to continue this, take it over to the other subforum.

Yeah, I'm going to drop it, too. Though I would argue that that the discussion is directly relevant to the topic, but it does feel like it's going to drown out anything else.

In order to discuss the con policy, we have to discuss the vaccinations themselves.

Have there been any successful lawsuits against events/establishments for acquiring coronavirus while on premise?

Quote from: Godsmonkey on June 11, 2021, 01:26:23 PM

Quote from: ScytheSong on June 11, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
Think of it from the point of view of the convention organizers. Most conventions operate on razor-thin margins and the abuse of volunteers. If they don't have rules in place and even one person catches COVID there, a lawsuit would destroy the convention. So the volunteer with a law degree says, "if we require everyone to be vaccinated, they can't sue us for getting COVID at our event." QED.

So what are the odds of proving you got COVID at the convention? Unless you can get contact tracing from everyone you interacted with, it's going to be tough.

IMO the best policy is to state on the tickets that you assume responsibility and the venue or event is not responsible.

Note that I said "a lawsuit" not "a successful lawsuit." Just trying to pay for lawyers to defend themselves would have bankrupted the conventions I was familiar with (Norwes, Rusty, Ory).

Quote from: ScytheSong on June 11, 2021, 04:12:13 PM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on June 11, 2021, 01:26:23 PM

Quote from: ScytheSong on June 11, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
Think of it from the point of view of the convention organizers. Most conventions operate on razor-thin margins and the abuse of volunteers. If they don't have rules in place and even one person catches COVID there, a lawsuit would destroy the convention. So the volunteer with a law degree says, "if we require everyone to be vaccinated, they can't sue us for getting COVID at our event." QED.

So what are the odds of proving you got COVID at the convention? Unless you can get contact tracing from everyone you interacted with, it's going to be tough.

IMO the best policy is to state on the tickets that you assume responsibility and the venue or event is not responsible.

Note that I said "a lawsuit" not "a successful lawsuit." Just trying to pay for lawyers to defend themselves would have bankrupted the conventions I was familiar with (Norwes, Rusty, Ory).

Fair point.

Well, since this is a role-playing forum, I'll role-play SHARK 

Greetings!

Yo, Pat! What the Italian REGIME just pulled was EPIC!

They tied an event with mandatory masks, reduced venues, social distancing and all other sanitary dictatorship means to THE RETURN OF THE ITALIAN SOCCER TEAM!

You know how Italians are! First there is their Mom, then their Team, then their Mom, then their Team, and lastly Spaghetti.

And the Italian team WON. 3 - 0 against Turkey, so everybody and their Mom is happy! "The REGIME is right!" they are saying on television, LOL!

Good partying with your vino and your "tricolore" masks!! Tomorrow you will wake up with an hangover and the Nazis governing you! Best to start exercising! Nazi camp uniforms will not fit if you have a big pancia! Just imagining the lazy Italians trying to escape with the microchips running in their bodies makes me rolling laughing! LOL!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

(OK, that was not perfect. I have to refine it a bit, but I think I nailed more or less everything...)

P.S. LOL! 

Quote from: Reckall on June 11, 2021, 06:32:13 PM
Well, since this is a role-playing forum, I'll role-play SHARK 

Greetings!

Yo, Pat! What the Italian REGIME just pulled was EPIC!

They tied an event with mandatory masks, reduced venues, social distancing and all other sanitary dictatorship means to THE RETURN OF THE ITALIAN SOCCER TEAM!

You know how Italians are! First there is their Mom, then their Team, then their Mom, then their Team, and lastly Spaghetti.

And the Italian team WON. 3 - 0 against Turkey, so everybody and their Mom is happy! "The REGIME is right!" they are saying on television, LOL!

Good partying with your vino and your "tricolore" masks!! Tomorrow you will wake up with an hangover and the Nazis governing you! Best to start exercising! Nazi camp uniforms will not fit if you have a big pancia! Just imagining the lazy Italians trying to escape with the microchips running in their bodies makes me rolling laughing! LOL!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

(OK, that was not perfect. I have to refine it a bit, but I think I nailed more or less everything...)

P.S. LOL! 

Needs more cock sucking Marxists.

Over 25 years ago, I attended Dragonflight with a vendor. And I got a good hunk of event participation from it. It was around the time Champions 4th Edition was released. And I had my copy and notebooks with me. And I got in a few good games.

My view of the convention itself? Great. But I would have liked to have been there when I actually had some money.

They kept sending me new convention announcements for about 10 years after I moved to Southern California.

Compared to other conventions I had been at? I'd give Dragonflight high marks. They were as old school as it gets.

Quote from: Reckall on June 11, 2021, 06:32:13 PM
Well, since this is a role-playing forum, I'll role-play SHARK 

Greetings!

Yo, Pat! What the Italian REGIME just pulled was EPIC!

They tied an event with mandatory masks, reduced venues, social distancing and all other sanitary dictatorship means to THE RETURN OF THE ITALIAN SOCCER TEAM!

You know how Italians are! First there is their Mom, then their Team, then their Mom, then their Team, and lastly Spaghetti.

And the Italian team WON. 3 - 0 against Turkey, so everybody and their Mom is happy! "The REGIME is right!" they are saying on television, LOL!

Good partying with your vino and your "tricolore" masks!! Tomorrow you will wake up with an hangover and the Nazis governing you! Best to start exercising! Nazi camp uniforms will not fit if you have a big pancia! Just imagining the lazy Italians trying to escape with the microchips running in their bodies makes me rolling laughing! LOL!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

(OK, that was not perfect. I have to refine it a bit, but I think I nailed more or less everything...)

P.S. LOL! 

Greetings!

*Laughing* That post is hilarious, Reckall!

I almost choked on my coffee laughing. Pretty neat how you mixed in aspects of serious political commentary, with a side of humour and fun! I try to not take things in life too seriously. At some point, regardless of a particular political/social topic, it can get very frustrating and even depressing. I like that you have a sense of humour, Reckall.

Cheers!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Shasarak on June 11, 2021, 08:20:34 PM

Quote from: Reckall on June 11, 2021, 06:32:13 PM
Well, since this is a role-playing forum, I'll role-play SHARK 

Greetings!

Yo, Pat! What the Italian REGIME just pulled was EPIC!

They tied an event with mandatory masks, reduced venues, social distancing and all other sanitary dictatorship means to THE RETURN OF THE ITALIAN SOCCER TEAM!

You know how Italians are! First there is their Mom, then their Team, then their Mom, then their Team, and lastly Spaghetti.

And the Italian team WON. 3 - 0 against Turkey, so everybody and their Mom is happy! "The REGIME is right!" they are saying on television, LOL!

Good partying with your vino and your "tricolore" masks!! Tomorrow you will wake up with an hangover and the Nazis governing you! Best to start exercising! Nazi camp uniforms will not fit if you have a big pancia! Just imagining the lazy Italians trying to escape with the microchips running in their bodies makes me rolling laughing! LOL!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

(OK, that was not perfect. I have to refine it a bit, but I think I nailed more or less everything...)

P.S. LOL! 

Needs more cock sucking Marxists.

Greetings!

Yes, Shasarak, my friend. That's for when I get angry at things...especially, well, you know who, by now, heh?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Shasarak on June 11, 2021, 08:20:34 PM

Quote from: Reckall on June 11, 2021, 06:32:13 PM
Well, since this is a role-playing forum, I'll role-play SHARK 

Greetings!

Yo, Pat! What the Italian REGIME just pulled was EPIC!

They tied an event with mandatory masks, reduced venues, social distancing and all other sanitary dictatorship means to THE RETURN OF THE ITALIAN SOCCER TEAM!

You know how Italians are! First there is their Mom, then their Team, then their Mom, then their Team, and lastly Spaghetti.

And the Italian team WON. 3 - 0 against Turkey, so everybody and their Mom is happy! "The REGIME is right!" they are saying on television, LOL!

Good partying with your vino and your "tricolore" masks!! Tomorrow you will wake up with an hangover and the Nazis governing you! Best to start exercising! Nazi camp uniforms will not fit if you have a big pancia! Just imagining the lazy Italians trying to escape with the microchips running in their bodies makes me rolling laughing! LOL!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

(OK, that was not perfect. I have to refine it a bit, but I think I nailed more or less everything...)

P.S. LOL! 

Needs more cock sucking Marxists.

Not with the Mom present. No.