Quote from: Claudius;658526If I recall correctly, Green Ronin has plans for a new game using the AGE system. That is, it will include the AGE rules plus an unlicensed setting. (...)

Hm, *kind* of interesting but I fear it will still turn out too generic/Tolkien-esque high fantasy, to my taste.

What's the "new school?" That's easy to answer in the case of most of the OSR: the cats -- including those at Wizards -- who see TSR-era D&D as outmoded and want to attach the brand to different things.

Fine: D&D is a house divided, and the squabble has been noisy enough for a lot of people who don't even play D&D to notice.

Then we get nonsense like people deciding whether V&V or Space Opera is "old school." I mean nonsense in that there's no such prominent division into bitterly opposed "schools" of playing V&V or Space Opera. Neither were they designed in reaction to 3E or 4E D&D (which marks the boundary with the "new school" in D&D depending on the reactionary in question).

If they reflect a coherent school, it's an FGU school of remarkably baroque rules sets.

Now, if it pleases you to define "old school" as, say, whatever displeases Swine, then you're as free to do that as someone else is to define "old school" however suits him.

If you don't define it, then what you're going to get is answers based on a mishmash of possibly contradictory notions.

Quote from: Bill;658566Dragon Age has Skills and 'Feats'   OMG!!!!

This is one of the things why I like Dragon Age. It's true, it has skills and feats, but not too many, and they are handled in a simple and clean way. Yes, I get that games like D&D3, D&D4, GURPS, has too many skills, feats, advantages, etc, but I don't like that a lot of OSR games avoid skills and feats altogether. I don't think the problem is skills and feats themselves.

Quote from: Claudius;658849This is one of the things why I like Dragon Age. It's true, it has skills and feats, but not too many, and they are handled in a simple and clean way. Yes, I get that games like D&D3, D&D4, GURPS, has too many skills, feats, advantages, etc, but I don't like that a lot of OSR games avoid skills and feats altogether. I don't think the problem is skills and feats themselves.

In regards to skills and 'feats' I agree. It's how they are implemented in a game that matters.

For example, I hate how feats are done in 3X dnd and would gut and rebuild it if I had players that agreed with me

Assuming I was forced to run 3X again, anyway.

Quote from: Bill;658897In regards to skills and 'feats' I agree. It's how they are implemented in a game that matters.

This.

QuoteFor example, I hate how feats are done in 3X dnd and would gut and rebuild it if I had players that agreed with me

Assuming I was forced to run 3X again, anyway.

The thing that bothers me about feats in 3.x is that there are too many of them.  I don't mind skills --after all, I ran MERP/Rolemaster back in the day-- but feats are my biggest beef with 3.x.  When you get so many of them that you become paralyzed by choice, you end up going with whatever becomes the optimized cookie cutter build for a particular character.  By dialing back feats to a much smaller list, you regain control over the customization process.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;658904This.



The thing that bothers me about feats in 3.x is that there are too many of them.  I don't mind skills --after all, I ran MERP/Rolemaster back in the day-- but feats are my biggest beef with 3.x.  When you get so many of them that you become paralyzed by choice, you end up going with whatever becomes the optimized cookie cutter build for a particular character.  By dialing back feats to a much smaller list, you regain control over the customization process.

For me it is the prereqs that create cookie cutter.

I would like to see a feat system where almost all feats are selectable by any character with no prereqs.

For example, let a wizard take whirlwind attack at level one if he really wants to.
But balance whirlwind attack better.

Quote from: Bill;658927For me it is the prereqs that create cookie cutter.

I would like to see a feat system where almost all feats are selectable by any character with no prereqs.

For example, let a wizard take whirlwind attack at level one if he really wants to.
But balance whirlwind attack better.

I think the problem with this is that if you balance every "Feat" to be selectable by any class at any level, you end up tending towards blandness. Selections limited by class or level can be much more varied.

Quote from: Bobloblah;658931I think the problem with this is that if you balance every "Feat" to be selectable by any class at any level, you end up tending towards blandness. Selections limited by class or level can be much more varied.

Blandness? It creates more possible combinations. The opposite of bland.

How can limited selections be more varied?

Quote from: Bill;658935Blandness? It creates more possible combinations. The opposite of bland.

How can limited selections be more varied?

Yarp. The first step toward promoting variety is making sure all choices are equally valid.

If you have 500 feats to choose from and each character can potentially have 12 of them and there are 12 which are the only ones anyone bothers taking, then you have created 488 feats too many.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;658937Yarp. The first step toward promoting variety is making sure all choices are equally valid.

If you have 500 feats to choose from and each character can potentially have 12 of them and there are 12 which are the only ones anyone bothers taking, then you have created 488 feats too many.

The feats have to be fairly close in overall usefullness/appeal.

Quote from: Bill;658935Blandness? It creates more possible combinations. The opposite of bland.

How can limited selections be more varied?

You misunderstand me. The BALANCE uber alles is what creates the blandness, or has the strong tendency to do so, not the straight number of selections. Moreover, I don't think number of selections is really what makes a system fun. It's more about how interesting and differentiated the choices are, as opposed to pure number of choices. If the latter were the true solution a system with the maximum number of choices would be best. Look at 3.x

If you try and make every choice selectable by every class at first level, you limit the design space you have to work in. Moreover, the likelihood that something, somewhere, is going to be better than other options gets much, much higher, as you have no other way to balance them (by simply changing level, for example) than pure effect.

You end up with the result Exploderwizard mentioned.

Quote from: Bobloblah;658941You misunderstand me. The BALANCE uber alles is what creates the blandness, or has the strong tendency to do so, not the straight number of selections. Moreover, I don't think number of selections is really what makes a system fun. It's more about how interesting and differentiated the choices are, as opposed to pure number of choices. If the latter were the true solution a system with the maximum number of choices would be best. Look at 3.x

If you try and make every choice selectable by every class at first level, you limit the design space you have to work in. Moreover, the likelihood that something, somewhere, is going to be better than other options gets much, much higher, as you have no other way to balance them (by simply changing level, for example) than pure effect.

You end up with the result Exploderwizard mentioned.

I want a reasonably free choice of many reasonably balanced feats.

3X dnd does not offer that.

Well, I'm rolling with a Mage character (Circle Mage) due Sunday. I'll post my thoughts after the game .

Quote from: Rincewind1;658951Well, I'm rolling with a Mage character (Circle Mage) due Sunday. I'll post my thoughts after the game .

Don't take Healing magic. Just take the Healing feats.

Quote from: Skywalker;658956Don't take Healing magic. Just take the Healing feats.

Hrm, why? Using surgery mid - combat seemed a bit silly to me . Not to mention my backstory is that my Mage is adventuring to find a cure for his tuberculosis, so I think Heal would be very much IC.