So I haven't been keeping up with these projects.  Any word on how WotC is going to handle Planescape as they move away from alignment in D&D?

Quote from: rkhigdon on August 26, 2022, 10:49:30 AM
So I haven't been keeping up with these projects.  Any word on how WotC is going to handle Planescape as they move away from alignment in D&D?

I wouldn't expect any word from WOTC or its promoters to be trustworthy. It'd just be a meaningless sales pitch.

If they actually publish it I'd expect it to be amazingly bland. It will probably be like the Radiant Citadel (I went through some reviews from a non-hype viewpoint), in that Sigil will be described as some form of idealized utopia, and no adventures will occur in Sigil. You really can't adventure in a utopia.

Quote from: rkhigdon on August 26, 2022, 10:49:30 AM
So I haven't been keeping up with these projects.  Any word on how WotC is going to handle Planescape as they move away from alignment in D&D?

They haven't removed the outer planes, so I'm assuming it won't be significantly different. They're probably going to ignore the faction war completely; at most they might mention it as an option.

I'm of the opinion that we don't need 18 outer planes and it would work fine with just 9 for each of the alignments, but WotC probably isn't going to make that change.

In the 2e era, I like Spelljammer a lot more than Planescape.  Traveling between campaign settings was easy if the DM wanted it to happen, and the whole medieval space traveler thing was cool.

Planescape was just a little ridiculous.  For years, D&D made certain creatures out to be pure evil or pure good - now we're supposed to believe that angels and demons, dead worshippers of deities and elementals, can all grab a drink at the bar in some multiplanar Casablanca? 

When I first jumped from Rules Cyclopedia to AD&D 2nd, Spelljammer was my very first campaign setting. So I knew Spelljammer before I found out about Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, and Dragonlance. Come to think of it, after Spelljammer was Dark Sun and Ravenloft, so I was more versed more in the 'alternate' settings before the core ones. That being said, I was rather fond of Spelljammer due to playing a lot of Sid Meier's Pirates on my Commadore 64. Not sure how I feel about the remake, since I am not real happy with what they did to Ravenloft (my favorite setting).

I adore Planescape, read many of the box sets and books, thought the various factions were awesome (Bleak Cabal, Doomguard, and Free League for the win). I don't think WOTC can capture the magic that made Planescape great. Victorian lower class lingo most likely will not show itself, the factions might make an appearance but I don't see how they can make them work beyond backgrounds, and I really don't want to see how they 'update' Sigil and the Lady of Pain.

I always wanted to play Spelljammer back in the day but never got a chance.  Tried to run Planescape for a group but it ended horribly - probably not a good idea to try it your first time as DM, lol.  I am hoping the new Spelljammer is decent so we can finally get to try it out.  I always just looked at it as a nice way to tie together lots of things that normally wouldn't go together .

Spelljammer was my favorite 2e setting, with Planescape a close second.  Both of them by their very nature could easily connect heavily with the other settings, but it was also a simple matter to have a campaign wholly in space or the planes and never run dry of things to do.  I appreciated the strong pivot away from just generic swords and sorcery goblin-slaying and the more fantastical settings.

Quote from: sombodystolemyname on August 26, 2022, 04:23:14 PM
I always wanted to play Spelljammer back in the day but never got a chance.  Tried to run Planescape for a group but it ended horribly - probably not a good idea to try it your first time as DM, lol.  I am hoping the new Spelljammer is decent so we can finally get to try it out.  I always just looked at it as a nice way to tie together lots of things that normally wouldn't go together .

I'd go with something besides WOTC at this point. I've seen a couple of reviews of Spelljammer by guys, who'd otherwise be called 5E fans, and both had low opinions of the new Spelljammer.

I suggest you look to the OSR. I'm familiar with Kevin Crawford's Without Number series, and I think you could make something Spelljammery from combining his Stars Without Number, Worlds Without Number and Black Sun Codex. His upcoming Atlas of the Latter Earth will have airships that should be easy to adapt to spelljamming.

The only OSR space fantasy supplements I'm aware of are:
Void Spanners for Basic Fantasy
Dark Dungeons X chapter on fantasy space travel
Blood & Treasure planar cosmology turns the planes into celestial spheres
Aside from that I've haven't looked for anything, but there may be others

Honorable mention goes to Darkfuries' 3.x book Aether & Flux. It uses real space physics for the most part, but adds aether (as in luminiferous ether) and flux (basically electricity) to allow space travel. The two repel each other, so you can use flux generators attached to sails to propel a vessel without spells. Flux can also be used to generate artificial gravity, recycle air, and shoot lightning guns. Interstellar aether lets you travel at FTL so it's basically hyperspace. It was available on drivethru but got taken down years ago due to technical issues that have yet to be fixed. I've pestered both Drivethru support and the publisher's email to no avail. As you can probably tell I am a big fan of its magic space physics.

Quote from: Valatar on August 26, 2022, 04:30:26 PM
Spelljammer was my favorite 2e setting, with Planescape a close second.  Both of them by their very nature could easily connect heavily with the other settings, but it was also a simple matter to have a campaign wholly in space or the planes and never run dry of things to do.  I appreciated the strong pivot away from just generic swords and sorcery goblin-slaying and the more fantastical settings.

I just came across this:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/376271

I don't have it myself, but it would seem to be along the lines of what you're looking for.

Quote from: Zalman on August 26, 2022, 10:27:29 AM

Quote from: Effete on August 24, 2022, 10:46:24 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t4tL_K9r8ps

Skip to 1:30 to get past all his shilling of his books/social media.

FYI: https://youtu.be/t4tL_K9r8ps?t=90

Yeah, I know. I was on mobile at the time and a bit lazy. Thank you for updated link!

Spelljammer had one major good thing going, the idea that Mindflayers and Beholders came from outerspace.  I like that, it's a neat and different origin for them.  Though I'd make them more like Yag Kosha from the Conan Story Tower of The Elephant rather than using fantasy spaceships.  Outside of that, I'd have to say it was mostly just too silly for me.  The giant space hamsters were funny but belonged in an April Fools issue of Dragon, not the setting proper.

Planescape was beautiful and probably right to focus on the city of Sigil as the planes are too vast and dull to really make a great campaign.  I sometimes think they should have just moved  the spell jamming ships into the astral plane and ditched the magical space thing.  Replacing the philostogen with astral space is a step in the right direction IMO.

Quote from: David Johansen on August 26, 2022, 11:07:44 PM
Spelljammer had one major good thing going, the idea that Mindflayers and Beholders came from outerspace.  I like that, it's a neat and different origin for them.  Though I'd make them more like Yag Kosha from the Conan Story Tower of The Elephant rather than using fantasy spaceships.  Outside of that, I'd have to say it was mostly just too silly for me.  The giant space hamsters were funny but belonged in an April Fools issue of Dragon, not the setting proper.

Planescape was beautiful and probably right to focus on the city of Sigil as the planes are too vast and dull to really make a great campaign.  I sometimes think they should have just moved  the spell jamming ships into the astral plane and ditched the magical space thing.  Replacing the philostogen with astral space is a step in the right direction IMO.

But, space is *relatable* to players who've grown up in a post-Apollo world. Other planes of existence where good creatures and evil, dead and alive, happily engage in trade, personal relationships, etc. in a "neutral ground" is a bit far-fetched when all of the previous lore published is to the contrary.  You could always ignore the space hamsters - or not.  I introduced the dralasite, vrusk, etc. from Star Frontiers into my spelljammer campaigns - and it worked just fine.

I also have a personal dislike for the art and the manner of speech in the planescape products - they were trying too hard to be different *just* to be different - almost at if they were trying to court the emo/goth crowd - "look at us with our using made-up words in a pseudo-cockney manner; we're edgy, maaaann.".

I thought the Sigil cant was literally just cockney slang. Did they use it wrong?

I think it added color to the setting, and unlike WW it didn't sound pretentious af