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Author Topic: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?  (Read 10496 times)

The Thing

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #360 on: May 11, 2021, 02:56:48 AM »

Anyways, wrenching the car back onto the road: what would be a good way to fix EP?


Set any copies of the physical game on fire.

Keep digital copies of the game as examples of why you don't mix personal politics and RPGs.

Wow. It takes an absolutely colossal asshole to dump that much shit in a thread in one post. Are you related to donald trump?

matt?

Door?

The Thing

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #361 on: May 11, 2021, 06:04:46 AM »
One objection i do have to call out here is the "But that's impossible for technology to do!"  one.

Guys, eclipse phase starts like 200 years or so from today. it's really like 210 years given the fall takes place 200 years from now, thereabouts, and the game starts 10 years later. But let's call it 200 years and change.

Now, you, yes, YOU, the guy reading this, take a look at what you're reading it on. A desktop PC with SSD, microprocessor with like maybe like 40 million microscopic components packs into like maybe a 4 square inch space,  displayed on an LED or LCD monitor. or maybe a portable laptop computer, or a tablet you're reading while laying in bed. Hell, maybe  a handheld smartphone.

Whatever you're reading this on, you think even the most intelligent and educated scientific minds of say 1820 could have imagined it and the global network of hardware and invisible waves of information that put these words in front of your eyes? Hell, even Michael Faraday, one of  the 1800's greatest intellects and inventor of so much our modern tech is built on, could not conceive of a smartphone and the network it runs on even tho he laid the groundworks for most of our understanding of electromagnetism we use today for electronics, radio, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday


So, really, you're gonna say that in 200 years ego downloads, mind recorders, AI, etc, won't be possible?

you may be right, but every maybe has a wife, her name is maybe not.

So, you choose to assume EPs technology would be impossible in 200 years. I choose otherwise. Neither of us can prove the other wrong.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 06:06:20 AM by The Thing »

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #362 on: May 11, 2021, 07:46:04 AM »
A hack might be reversible. Convincing people to join you based on their own innate ignorance, bias, prejudices, etc is harder for anyone to undo.
I see your one of those people that doesn’t trust others with their own opinions on a fundamental level. And see people having the “wrong opinions” as worse then mind control.

There seems to be a large appeal in EP for those sorts of people apparently.

Snowman0147

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #363 on: May 11, 2021, 09:36:38 AM »
No it is litterally impossible.  At most is you make a better biological you, but even then it is a copy of you.  It is still not you.  Your consciousness hadn't transfer over to a new body, or something like that.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #364 on: May 11, 2021, 10:03:48 AM »
No it is litterally impossible.  At most is you make a better biological you, but even then it is a copy of you.  It is still not you.  Your consciousness hadn't transfer over to a new body, or something like that.
There might be workarounds by distributing your consciousness across multiple brains in a swarm intelligence.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #365 on: May 11, 2021, 10:37:26 AM »
What constitutes 'you' is generally a philosophical question. Not a scientific one.

I philosophically believe that even if an organism of some sort, body-hopping sentience is not human.

HappyDaze

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #366 on: May 11, 2021, 11:01:51 AM »
I philosophically believe that even if an organism of some sort, body-hopping sentience is not human.
But is it transhuman? That's the real question.

robertliguori

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #367 on: May 11, 2021, 12:47:39 PM »
I philosophically believe that even if an organism of some sort, body-hopping sentience is not human.
But is it transhuman? That's the real question.

"To be more than human is to be human." is one of the original quotes kicking around the transhumanist movement.  The idea is to flatly deny that there's a Science has Gone Too Far!!! point in human advancement, and that we shouldn't look at our current state as something unique and worth preserving any more than we should have shut down the trans-early-hominids who were going all in on technology, or the trans-fish who started exploring land, or trans-fuck-I-don't-know-cyanobacteria who got in on oxygen production.  The idea is that all of those things are part of our history and define who we are, but we are more than them, and that who we are now will define what transhumanity is as well, but it will be something greater and better.

And then the setting has the ETIs and ASIs and exhumans and posthumans, and abandons that ideal entirely.

The Thing

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #368 on: May 11, 2021, 02:14:12 PM »
One issue i see here is people saying "But would it still be you?"

I'm not sure how that could be answered, but even if it's not the same as you is that terrible?

Now, yes, getting hacked to be a good l'il corporate servant sucks infinite ass,  no argument there.

But as to remaining 'you', are you the same you that existed when you were 10? Are you the same you that you were 20 years ago? Have you changed thru education, growth or some sort of trauma? Trying to remain the same you you were long ago means you didn't become more than you were.

In 'ghost in the shell" (Not the whitewash live action mess) Motoko  Kusanagi is offered a chance to merge with a fully sentient self aware AI that evolved in the internet's sea of information. She asks how she can be sure she'd still be her.

Project 2501 admits she can't be sure she'd still be the same, and says you cannot become what you could be by remaining what you are. Your effort to remain as you are limits you.

So maybe a you that became a transhuman ego able to shift from body to body, fork and reintegrate, etc wouldn't be you as you are now. Would it be better?  Worse?

Honestly arguing if humans would be the same after transhuman tech, mind uploading, morphing, etc opens a question: "Is humanity so good it shouldn't change?"

Yeah, i'm glad we changed from our ancestors who practiced open slavery, total dominance of women, human sacrifice, etc.  You look at the well documented and recorded 20th century and i think you see that the human race as it is now needs some improving.


Look, america today would shock the founding fathers, i mean they voted for slavery, declared a black man was property and amounted to 3/5 of a person, woman could not vote, etc. in most of america a woman could not have her own bank account until the 1970's. Imagine them seeing barack obama sworn in as president.  :o

Society, culture and the people in them change, and i for one am glad we do.

Sure change can be bad, it can be good. But stagnation is bad, period. The hypercorps show some people and things have not changed. The Argonauts and the Titanians show some things have changed.

So, yes, people will be changed by technology and new abilities, all we can do is try the best we can  to make it positive change.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 02:30:55 PM by The Thing »

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #369 on: May 11, 2021, 03:34:43 PM »
But is it transhuman? That's the real question.
I mean the literal definition: yes. I don't really think that matters (to me). Again: Borg? Transhuman.

"To be more than human is to be human."

I think that's just BS. Say "I don't value humanity", but don't push oxymorons. And I mean to the people that promote this idea. Not to you directly.
'To be consumed by a nanobot swarm and spread across the heavens as a plague of locust is human'.

I find transhumanism very much leans on 'Science as Heaven' for my taste. It doesn't think through the logical continuum of its desires, and just leans apon things that don't even make sense abstractly.

One issue i see here is people saying "But would it still be you?"
OK seriously, are you matt? Same spelling errors, same desire to pick a fight, same opinions, same thread he made. Same general misanthropy.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #370 on: May 11, 2021, 06:50:36 PM »
One issue i see here is people saying "But would it still be you?"

I'm not sure how that could be answered, but even if it's not the same as you is that terrible?

Now, yes, getting hacked to be a good l'il corporate servant sucks infinite ass,  no argument there.

But as to remaining 'you', are you the same you that existed when you were 10? Are you the same you that you were 20 years ago? Have you changed thru education, growth or some sort of trauma? Trying to remain the same you you were long ago means you didn't become more than you were.

In 'ghost in the shell" (Not the whitewash live action mess) Motoko  Kusanagi is offered a chance to merge with a fully sentient self aware AI that evolved in the internet's sea of information. She asks how she can be sure she'd still be her.

Project 2501 admits she can't be sure she'd still be the same, and says you cannot become what you could be by remaining what you are. Your effort to remain as you are limits you.

So maybe a you that became a transhuman ego able to shift from body to body, fork and reintegrate, etc wouldn't be you as you are now. Would it be better?  Worse?

Honestly arguing if humans would be the same after transhuman tech, mind uploading, morphing, etc opens a question: "Is humanity so good it shouldn't change?"

Yeah, i'm glad we changed from our ancestors who practiced open slavery, total dominance of women, human sacrifice, etc.  You look at the well documented and recorded 20th century and i think you see that the human race as it is now needs some improving.


Look, america today would shock the founding fathers, i mean they voted for slavery, declared a black man was property and amounted to 3/5 of a person, woman could not vote, etc. in most of america a woman could not have her own bank account until the 1970's. Imagine them seeing barack obama sworn in as president.  :o

Society, culture and the people in them change, and i for one am glad we do.

Sure change can be bad, it can be good. But stagnation is bad, period. The hypercorps show some people and things have not changed. The Argonauts and the Titanians show some things have changed.

So, yes, people will be changed by technology and new abilities, all we can do is try the best we can  to make it positive change.



Are you here to talk about Eclipse Phase or a bunch of tangenital crap?
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Chris24601

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #371 on: May 11, 2021, 07:18:29 PM »
Are you here to talk about Eclipse Phase or a bunch of tangenital crap?
I'm still waiting for an answer to the original question of the thread title. Does ANYONE actually PLAY Eclipse Phase?

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #372 on: May 11, 2021, 07:27:34 PM »
Are you here to talk about Eclipse Phase or a bunch of tangenital crap?

I'd say it's sort of about transhumanism (which is very related to EP so I wouldn't say it's tangential). I generally bash the idea, and he defends it. And because it's Matt it's also a bunch of other stuff because he can't help himself.
I think this thread in general was just designed to appeal to Matts's transhumanist kick. With a lot of people questioning and rejecting it, he comes back even after being banned to defend it.
I'm still waiting for an answer to the original question of the thread title. Does ANYONE actually PLAY Eclipse Phase?

Some people do. The general consensus is the rules are ludicrously game-able, and the setting not thought through very well.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #373 on: May 11, 2021, 07:45:02 PM »
Are you here to talk about Eclipse Phase or a bunch of tangenital crap?

I'd say it's sort of about transhumanism (which is very related to EP so I wouldn't say it's tangential). I generally bash the idea, and he defends it. And because it's Matt it's also a bunch of other stuff because he can't help himself.
I think this thread in general was just designed to appeal to Matts's transhumanist kick. With a lot of people questioning and rejecting it, he comes back even after being banned to defend it.
I'm still waiting for an answer to the original question of the thread title. Does ANYONE actually PLAY Eclipse Phase?

Sure, and the thread is mostly about transhumanism with a bunch of internet geeks arguing like they argue about whether a Star Trek starship would win in a fight with a Star Destroyer.

Maybe it's time to tune out the thread. I mostly got interested because the OP started out in such a stupid way, and I'm a sucker for jangling keys.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?
« Reply #374 on: May 11, 2021, 07:59:23 PM »
Sure, and the thread is mostly about transhumanism with a bunch of internet geeks arguing like they argue about whether a Star Trek starship would win in a fight with a Star Destroyer.

Depends on if its 1 or 2. 1 is unshielded so anything could be beamed inside.  ;D

But in practice yeah, maybe I should too. Its been going in circles for a bit.