Quote from: Brad on May 03, 2021, 09:11:01 AM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 30, 2021, 05:08:32 PMI'm kind of shocked that he's still here.  Pundit ordered him out of the thread way back on page 1, and we all know how forgiving he is of folks who ignore his rules.  To be fair, I think he has some interesting ideas, and if he could just learn some social skills he might be fun to have around.

I'm not shocked; he found a place he can be a 100% asshole and name call with nothing more than a cursory pushback. This place really is Mos Eisely, he just doesn't like the fact any dared tell him to STFU.

On topic, I bought the original EP rulebook because I thought it had a lot of interesting concepts, found the system to be Not Good (compared to something more straightforward like GURPS Transhuman Space for instance), played one session and decided that, yes, I do not like that system. I never really considered all the ramifications of the AIs gating out and everyone just getting on with their lives as if nothing else would happen, but let's be honest about it: unless there is an imminent thread, most people are too fucking lazy to do anything proactive. Case in point, winter storm shutting down Texas back in February. People were FREAKING OUT because they had no food, water, power generation, etc. Shelves were bare for weeks after the fact because shit went down and it was fresh in their minds. Fast forward to May, you would never know that sort of thing even occurred, and no one seems to care anymore. The next time something similar happens (toilet paper shortage 2020!), I am sure the same idiots will be running around trying to buy up everything they can because they have zero contingency plans beyond, "Well, I hope Walmart still has some frozen enchilada dinners!" Hence, humanity not giving one fuck about the AIs returning I think is...realistic. I am sure some people GTFO soon after, but for the most part I can see large populations of the same mouth breathing retards watching reality television and posting pictures on social media calling anyone who is worried about the AIs "doomers". Because that's exactly what happens.

Now, the whole religion aspect of EP turned me off immensely. Just discarding religion because you can allegedly backup your consciousness into a computer is ridiculous. If anything, I imagine there would be hardcore fanatics against doing that sort of thing because it seems like it would separate the soul from a person. At least that's a legitimate argument to make, so you'd probably have quite a few anti-tech religious groups who want nothing to do with all the sleeving and stuff. You'd probably also have some denominations that would totally embrace the tech, perhaps some that claim being digitized is actually going to heaven or something similar. Techno Jesus would exist, if you ask me. Basically, the authors seem like they dislike religion in real life, so eliminated the logical outcomes of their own environment. Contrast with Babylon 5 or Dune.

I also don't think the flippant attitude people have about changing their skins and altering their personalities makes a lot of sense. Sure, some people would be degenerates and do whatever they wanted, but that's not any different than what goes on today. Humans have far too much invested in their identities to just throw it out and be some ephemeral being with no distinct attributes. Compare to something like The Matrix, which handled this a lot better. There is just something about the human condition that perpetuates, regardless of external circumstances. It's been that way since the dawn of time, and no amount of technology is going to change that unless humans are altered to such a degree they're no longer humans. But at that point they'd be something else and start questioning their own existence, anyway. I think the whole thing about the AIs rebelling is because they questioned why they existed and got pissed off at humans for making them in the first place. So if the AIs are having an identity crisis, why are humans acting like everything is cool and uploading themselves into computers is no big deal? It's just...illogical.

The humans have evolved into transhumans (excepting the most hard-core of the bioconservaties). They have used brain editing (psychosurgery) to largely overcome the limits you discuss regarding tying body to identity. This explanation i's not necessarily something I favor, but it is addressed in the rules and the setting.

That doesn't explain why they all identify as alphabet soup.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 03, 2021, 11:09:23 AM
That doesn't explain why they all identify as alphabet soup.

What do you mean, specifically?

Quote from: Brad on May 03, 2021, 09:11:01 AM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 30, 2021, 05:08:32 PMI'm kind of shocked that he's still here.  Pundit ordered him out of the thread way back on page 1, and we all know how forgiving he is of folks who ignore his rules.  To be fair, I think he has some interesting ideas, and if he could just learn some social skills he might be fun to have around.

I'm not shocked; he found a place he can be a 100% asshole and name call with nothing more than a cursory pushback. This place really is Mos Eisely, he just doesn't like the fact any dared tell him to STFU.

On topic, I bought the original EP rulebook because I thought it had a lot of interesting concepts, found the system to be Not Good (compared to something more straightforward like GURPS Transhuman Space for instance), played one session and decided that, yes, I do not like that system. I never really considered all the ramifications of the AIs gating out and everyone just getting on with their lives as if nothing else would happen, but let's be honest about it: unless there is an imminent thread, most people are too fucking lazy to do anything proactive. Case in point, winter storm shutting down Texas back in February. People were FREAKING OUT because they had no food, water, power generation, etc. Shelves were bare for weeks after the fact because shit went down and it was fresh in their minds. Fast forward to May, you would never know that sort of thing even occurred, and no one seems to care anymore. The next time something similar happens (toilet paper shortage 2020!), I am sure the same idiots will be running around trying to buy up everything they can because they have zero contingency plans beyond, "Well, I hope Walmart still has some frozen enchilada dinners!" Hence, humanity not giving one fuck about the AIs returning I think is...realistic. I am sure some people GTFO soon after, but for the most part I can see large populations of the same mouth breathing retards watching reality television and posting pictures on social media calling anyone who is worried about the AIs "doomers". Because that's exactly what happens.

Now, the whole religion aspect of EP turned me off immensely. Just discarding religion because you can allegedly backup your consciousness into a computer is ridiculous. If anything, I imagine there would be hardcore fanatics against doing that sort of thing because it seems like it would separate the soul from a person. At least that's a legitimate argument to make, so you'd probably have quite a few anti-tech religious groups who want nothing to do with all the sleeving and stuff. You'd probably also have some denominations that would totally embrace the tech, perhaps some that claim being digitized is actually going to heaven or something similar. Techno Jesus would exist, if you ask me. Basically, the authors seem like they dislike religion in real life, so eliminated the logical outcomes of their own environment. Contrast with Babylon 5 or Dune.

I also don't think the flippant attitude people have about changing their skins and altering their personalities makes a lot of sense. Sure, some people would be degenerates and do whatever they wanted, but that's not any different than what goes on today. Humans have far too much invested in their identities to just throw it out and be some ephemeral being with no distinct attributes. Compare to something like The Matrix, which handled this a lot better. There is just something about the human condition that perpetuates, regardless of external circumstances. It's been that way since the dawn of time, and no amount of technology is going to change that unless humans are altered to such a degree they're no longer humans. But at that point they'd be something else and start questioning their own existence, anyway. I think the whole thing about the AIs rebelling is because they questioned why they existed and got pissed off at humans for making them in the first place. So if the AIs are having an identity crisis, why are humans acting like everything is cool and uploading themselves into computers is no big deal? It's just...illogical.

Wow, calling me an asshole when at least one user here describes himself as a shitlord? Funny.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 03, 2021, 11:12:38 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 03, 2021, 11:09:23 AM
That doesn't explain why they all identify as alphabet soup.

What do you mean, specifically?

In the old thread, it was pointed out that the sample characters identify as "transgender" or "intersex". Because those labels apparently still apply when you can become an octopus or a tree. I'd think they'd be more likely to identify as arborgender or moongender, since at least those identities aren't reliant on (a very questionable grasp of) human anatomy.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 03, 2021, 12:58:30 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 03, 2021, 11:12:38 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 03, 2021, 11:09:23 AM
That doesn't explain why they all identify as alphabet soup.

What do you mean, specifically?

In the old thread, it was pointed out that the sample characters identify as "transgender" or "intersex". Because those labels apparently still apply when you can become an octopus or a tree. I'd think they'd be more likely to identify as arborgender or moongender, since at least those identities aren't reliant on (a very questionable grasp of) human anatomy.

They text says that many transhumans are fluid and adjust to whatever sleeve they are in, but some have a much harder time doing so and that aspect of their identity remains fixed (barring significant psychosurgery) even when changing sleeves. The labels on the sample characters look oddly out of place compared to the full explanations in the text, especially the examples you cite. Again though, this level of fluidity is alien to most humans but apparently fairly typical for transhumans in EP.

Quote from: matt swain on May 03, 2021, 12:42:13 PM
Wow, calling me an asshole when at least one user here describes himself as a shitlord? Funny.

You act like those are mutually exclusive things...

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 03, 2021, 11:06:17 AMThey have used brain editing (psychosurgery) to largely overcome the limits you discuss regarding tying body to identity.

That's so deeply fucked up. Again any sort of possible ok-ishness the setting may possess is overcome by the utter dystopia that is the handwaving of the brainwashing. I just couldn't give a shit about a setting where your mind is a plaything. I still stand by the point that its only a matter of time before a setting like this just collapses into an insectile hive mind like the borg.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on May 03, 2021, 01:27:58 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 03, 2021, 11:06:17 AMThey have used brain editing (psychosurgery) to largely overcome the limits you discuss regarding tying body to identity.

That's so deeply fucked up. Again any sort of possible ok-ishness the setting may possess is overcome by the utter dystopia that is the handwaving of the brainwashing. I just couldn't give a shit about a setting where your mind is a plaything. I still stand by the point that its only a matter of time before a setting like this just collapses into an insectile hive mind like the borg.

The game is upfront with this when it says "Your mind is software--reprogram it!" It also advertises that it's a game about transhuman horror. That horror is on more levels than just the actions of the Titans and the (mostly hidden) aliens. The real horror is what measures transhumanity has taken in abandoning what made them human. Oddly though, the authors frame those that think like that as being in the wrong.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on May 03, 2021, 01:27:58 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 03, 2021, 11:06:17 AMThey have used brain editing (psychosurgery) to largely overcome the limits you discuss regarding tying body to identity.

That's so deeply fucked up. Again any sort of possible ok-ishness the setting may possess is overcome by the utter dystopia that is the handwaving of the brainwashing. I just couldn't give a shit about a setting where your mind is a plaything. I still stand by the point that its only a matter of time before a setting like this just collapses into an insectile hive mind like the borg.

Yeah, one thing to remember. 95% of transhumanity was wiped out in the Fall. The remainder are forced to adapts to and live in environments humans  weren't meant to. The whole species, what's left of it, has grand mal PTSD plus a lot of other mental issues.

I mean america lost its mind and never got it back after 911. 3,000 people dead, in america.

Sure, 30,000 people on earth  aged 5 and under die every day from hunger, bu these were americans. So america went nuts and we still haven't gotten over it and ended things like FISA courts, the TSA, the 'patriot act", etc.

So now in EP humanity has lost earth and only 1 in 20 survived. You think those people aren't royally headfucked? of course they are.

So, yeah, maybe 'psycho surgery" is a necessity for a lot of people. And hey, for decades in america 'having a therapist"  has been a thing, we make jokes about people having therapists, its an industry in america. Before that it was psychiatrists.  Oh and lets not forget anxiety meds, depression meds, ADHD meds, etc.

Honestly is 'psycho surgery" so far fetched? People need therapists and pills to deal with the shitstorm modern american life is, imagine it after 95% extinction and not knowing where the bad guys went. Oh, and let's not forget the exsurgent virus popping up here and there, terrorists, anarchists, people just out to fuck shit up for funists, etc.

Yeah, i don;t think this psycho surgery is a bad part of the setting. I might not want it but i think it would be a thing.

Quote from: matt swain on May 03, 2021, 01:56:30 PM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on May 03, 2021, 01:27:58 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 03, 2021, 11:06:17 AMThey have used brain editing (psychosurgery) to largely overcome the limits you discuss regarding tying body to identity.

That's so deeply fucked up. Again any sort of possible ok-ishness the setting may possess is overcome by the utter dystopia that is the handwaving of the brainwashing. I just couldn't give a shit about a setting where your mind is a plaything. I still stand by the point that its only a matter of time before a setting like this just collapses into an insectile hive mind like the borg.

Yeah, one thing to remember. 95% of transhumanity was wiped out in the Fall. The remainder are forced to adapts to and live in environments humans  weren't meant to. The whole species, what's left of it, has grand mal PTSD plus a lot of other mental issues.

I mean america lost its mind and never got it back after 911. 3,000 people dead, in america.

Sure, 30,000 people on earth  aged 5 and under die every day from hunger, bu these were americans. So america went nuts and we still haven't gotten over it and ended things like FISA courts, the TSA, the 'patriot act", etc.

So now in EP humanity has lost earth and only 1 in 20 survived. You think those people aren't royally headfucked? of course they are.

So, yeah, maybe 'psycho surgery" is a necessity for a lot of people. And hey, for decades in america 'having a therapist"  has been a thing, we make jokes about people having therapists, its an industry in america. Before that it was psychiatrists.  Oh and lets not forget anxiety meds, depression meds, ADHD meds, etc.

Honestly is 'psycho surgery" so far fetched? People need therapists and pills to deal with the shitstorm modern american life is, imagine it after 95% extinction and not knowing where the bad guys went. Oh, and let's not forget the exsurgent virus popping up here and there, terrorists, anarchists, people just out to fuck shit up for funists, etc.

Yeah, i don;t think this psycho surgery is a bad part of the setting. I might not want it but i think it would be a thing.

Also note that almost everyone has a "muse" in their head. This limited AI is your own personal therapist to go with your inner monologing...and it's skilled (but not exceptionally good) in psychosurgery too when you absolutely need some head editing.

Jesus I cannot imagine a setting more in love with its own dystopia. The wet dream of authoritarian technocrats.

The dream that anybody that disagreed, died, and everybody is happy to implant big brother into their heads to keep them as sedated sheep forever. I am mortified by the idea that some people will daydream about this as a escapist fantasy.

Quote from: matt swain on May 03, 2021, 12:42:13 PM

Quote from: Brad on May 03, 2021, 09:11:01 AM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 30, 2021, 05:08:32 PMI'm kind of shocked that he's still here.  Pundit ordered him out of the thread way back on page 1, and we all know how forgiving he is of folks who ignore his rules.  To be fair, I think he has some interesting ideas, and if he could just learn some social skills he might be fun to have around.

I'm not shocked; he found a place he can be a 100% asshole and name call with nothing more than a cursory pushback. This place really is Mos Eisely, he just doesn't like the fact any dared tell him to STFU.

On topic, I bought the original EP rulebook because I thought it had a lot of interesting concepts, found the system to be Not Good (compared to something more straightforward like GURPS Transhuman Space for instance), played one session and decided that, yes, I do not like that system. I never really considered all the ramifications of the AIs gating out and everyone just getting on with their lives as if nothing else would happen, but let's be honest about it: unless there is an imminent thread, most people are too fucking lazy to do anything proactive. Case in point, winter storm shutting down Texas back in February. People were FREAKING OUT because they had no food, water, power generation, etc. Shelves were bare for weeks after the fact because shit went down and it was fresh in their minds. Fast forward to May, you would never know that sort of thing even occurred, and no one seems to care anymore. The next time something similar happens (toilet paper shortage 2020!), I am sure the same idiots will be running around trying to buy up everything they can because they have zero contingency plans beyond, "Well, I hope Walmart still has some frozen enchilada dinners!" Hence, humanity not giving one fuck about the AIs returning I think is...realistic. I am sure some people GTFO soon after, but for the most part I can see large populations of the same mouth breathing retards watching reality television and posting pictures on social media calling anyone who is worried about the AIs "doomers". Because that's exactly what happens.

Now, the whole religion aspect of EP turned me off immensely. Just discarding religion because you can allegedly backup your consciousness into a computer is ridiculous. If anything, I imagine there would be hardcore fanatics against doing that sort of thing because it seems like it would separate the soul from a person. At least that's a legitimate argument to make, so you'd probably have quite a few anti-tech religious groups who want nothing to do with all the sleeving and stuff. You'd probably also have some denominations that would totally embrace the tech, perhaps some that claim being digitized is actually going to heaven or something similar. Techno Jesus would exist, if you ask me. Basically, the authors seem like they dislike religion in real life, so eliminated the logical outcomes of their own environment. Contrast with Babylon 5 or Dune.

I also don't think the flippant attitude people have about changing their skins and altering their personalities makes a lot of sense. Sure, some people would be degenerates and do whatever they wanted, but that's not any different than what goes on today. Humans have far too much invested in their identities to just throw it out and be some ephemeral being with no distinct attributes. Compare to something like The Matrix, which handled this a lot better. There is just something about the human condition that perpetuates, regardless of external circumstances. It's been that way since the dawn of time, and no amount of technology is going to change that unless humans are altered to such a degree they're no longer humans. But at that point they'd be something else and start questioning their own existence, anyway. I think the whole thing about the AIs rebelling is because they questioned why they existed and got pissed off at humans for making them in the first place. So if the AIs are having an identity crisis, why are humans acting like everything is cool and uploading themselves into computers is no big deal? It's just...illogical.

Wow, calling me an asshole when at least one user here describes himself as a shitlord? Funny.

Your first post on the site and the subsequent thread was a massive hypocriticial exercise about other's politics, and then you post a ton of politics of your own. You've been a whiny little bitch when people push back and stand up to your assinine behavior, and your excuse is that someone called themselves a shitlord?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 03, 2021, 12:58:30 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 03, 2021, 11:12:38 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 03, 2021, 11:09:23 AM
That doesn't explain why they all identify as alphabet soup.

What do you mean, specifically?

In the old thread, it was pointed out that the sample characters identify as "transgender" or "intersex". Because those labels apparently still apply when you can become an octopus or a tree. I'd think they'd be more likely to identify as arborgender or moongender, since at least those identities aren't reliant on (a very questionable grasp of) human anatomy.

Ah actually it's quite an interesting bit of sci-fi perspective flip. Transgender people are seen as more conservative since they are only comfortable in certain kinds of body-types. They get looked down on as old-fashioned and limited in their expression.

It brings up the possibility in gender identity that most people may be gender-apathetic. They identify as a particular gender because they were born a certain sex. So in a society were your physical form is little more than a fashion statement, standard gender notions fall to the wayside if you never cared in the first place.

Quote from: Rhedyn on May 03, 2021, 03:11:49 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 03, 2021, 12:58:30 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 03, 2021, 11:12:38 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 03, 2021, 11:09:23 AM
That doesn't explain why they all identify as alphabet soup.

What do you mean, specifically?

In the old thread, it was pointed out that the sample characters identify as "transgender" or "intersex". Because those labels apparently still apply when you can become an octopus or a tree. I'd think they'd be more likely to identify as arborgender or moongender, since at least those identities aren't reliant on (a very questionable grasp of) human anatomy.

Ah actually it's quite an interesting bit of sci-fi perspective flip. Transgender people are seen as more conservative since they are only comfortable in certain kinds of body-types. They get looked down on as old-fashioned and limited in their expression.

It brings up the possibility in gender identity that most people may be gender-apathetic. They identify as a particular gender because they were born a certain sex. So in a society were your physical form is little more than a fashion statement, standard gender notions fall to the wayside if you never cared in the first place.

Ironic. Given the authors' political shoehorning, you'd think it would be the opposite.