In the thread about House Rules, I made the quip about Players almost immediately forgetting about them once I gave them a double sided sheet of paper as a handout. I've seen the same behavior with handouts about the setting that their characters are playing in. This leads to some frustration on my end when the Players ask questions addressed in the handouts during the game.

I don't think that this is a problem with length of handout, because I limit them to two double sided pages as a maximum. Yet there always seems to be instances of That One Player who just hasn't bothered to read the handout. I don't do this for convention or demo games because there just isn't enough time in a typical four hour slot.

In terms of content, it is all fluff like a map, a key with descriptions, what nation-states there are, what factions exist, and important known NPCs, and a brief history.

So I'm wondering if any of the rest of you have encountered this? Do some Players just not give a shit? Is it a problem with handout length?

I've used handouts and it's worked well, but they're short and simple. For example, six one sentence clues and four annotated map fragments. They'd read them at first, maybe use them to decide an initial course of action, then as they adventured, they'd refer to them again and again. People would get pretty excited when a piece became relevant to their location. 

QuoteDo Your Players Read Your Handouts?

Some of them do, most don't, many may get there eventually, or at least skim through. But I have definitely encountered some of the problems mentioned in the OP. I don't view this as much of a problem when dealing with houserules, however, for one simple reason: I've encountered the EXACT same problem with the actual published game books.

This is one of the main obstacles of getting people interested in tabletop RPGs, and getting people to learn/play different systems, rather than get stuck with D&D perpetually, in particular. People DON'T want to read--ANYTHING. Many casual players don't even know most of the D&D rules and have to rely on the DM or more experienced or dedicated players to tell them what to roll, what to add, or how things work in general. This happens regardless of how many or how few houserules I use. I could play it RAW or make up my own thing and call it "D&D" and many of them won't even know the difference; only dedicated players will.

I write the notes mostly for me, to keep track of all the changes or additions I've made, then send a PDF to everyone, so they can reference them if necessary. Handouts can still be handy during character creation, since I may also include details on how ability scores are generated and things like that. I suppose everyone skims through at least some portions of them at the very least.

They have never read them, over the 35+ years we've been playing (mostly with the same group).  I've stopped making them, honestly.  What I do, instead, is add the points they need to know to the narration or to my questions to them when the material becomes relevant.  Like: "What do you say to the innkeeper?  Your character knows, here in Bartertown, that the inhabitants are very aware and protective of their personal status, and that he looks mortified that you got ambushed under his roof."  They seem to pick up the nuances better that way.  In the beginning, it does feel like I'm leading them a bit, but once the setting gets rolling, they usually don't have to be reminded much (and they start asking questions about things, like, "What do we know about the Direlands?" that give me the opportunity to give info without seeming to dictate play).  I've found that sticks much better than the traditional handout info.

BTW, I do the same with houserules.  During session zero, I try to get a feel for what the player is trying to do with the character, and I ask them about what actions they see themselves using a lot (both in and out of combat).  Then I let them know if any of my houserules impact their characters.  Otherwise, I just clearly state how we're going to run things the first time the situation arises, and we can talk about the rule after the session is over.  As long as the players don't feel like you created a rule to "get" them, mine tend to be pretty flexible with rulings.

I make it a point to call out the things that everyone has to read.  I've even gone so far as to make separate documents.  The very short (page or less) absolutely required to read one and then the rest.  Typically, the top of the other, longer documents have some guidance on when and why some of the information might be useful.  Mainly, I do this because I have the full mix of players from "don't even want to read that critical one page and barely reads the two sentences in the email about it" all the way to "will devour everything I send".

As for enforcing it, I only do one thing--and everyone knows it.  If someone asks a question that was answered in the very short, required document, then instead of answering the question I refer them to the document.  The other players probably give them grief over it, too.  It's all friendly grief.  (I use the same techniques in a professional setting, too, though of course you have to be more circumspect about the grief.)  In fact, I don't have any problem with some players not reading even the required information, since a lot of it they will pick up in context as long as some of the players read it. If it's required, then I don't want to keep answering the same questions about it over and over. Whenever possible, I let other players answer other questions about the optional material.  If they manage to answer setting questions in character, so much the better.

If that all sounds extreme, well, I once had my half-page required document, a 12 page "additional character options" document and a 32 page "generally known setting information" document.  The 32 pager even had a table of contents and an intro section with "if you are interested in X, see page Y".  In the email, I explicitly said that after they go through the required doc, they could read as much or as little of the rest as interested them and helped them make a character. Then in the body of the email I repeated the half page required text.  Within the first 30 minutes of the first session I had one player ask a question that was answered quite explicitly in the first few sentences of the required doc, and another player ask a question about the setting that could have only come from studying everything I had sent. 

As to why I wrote a 32 page doc in the first place, that was a very odd setting of my own creation.  I wrote a lot more than that about it for my own notes.  Then discovered that some of the conversational first draft parts of my notes could be edited a little and sent out for the interested players.  I don't do that all the time.

I had a younger (late-20s) player in my last group that more-or-less didn't read. Anything beyond a glance at a PHB was asking too much of him. Now he did often know a lot of the contents and rough ideas of much of the system from watching YouTube videos and listening to audiobooks while driving around for his job. He asked if I had considered reading my handout page(s) aloud and recording it, because he could listen to that while driving, which was apparently when information soaked in best. As someone that loves to read, this difference was shocking.

I can't remember when my players did not read over any hand outs I give out.

If I take the time to do a hand out they know its important information they need.   

Sometimes its not apparent but they figure it out sooner or later

I also print off spell & item cards that they seem to enjoy getting as well.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 18, 2020, 11:21:53 AM
I had a younger (late-20s) player in my last group that more-or-less didn't read. Anything beyond a glance at a PHB was asking too much of him. Now he did often know a lot of the contents and rough ideas of much of the system from watching YouTube videos and listening to audiobooks while driving around for his job. He asked if I had considered reading my handout page(s) aloud and recording it, because he could listen to that while driving, which was apparently when information soaked in best. As someone that loves to read, this difference was shocking.

This is not unusual. I love to read, and always have. However, after years of attending VA classes and groups, I discovered that I absorb facts better by hearing it spoken aloud. Weird.

Quote from: Semaj Khan on December 18, 2020, 01:49:08 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 18, 2020, 11:21:53 AM
I had a younger (late-20s) player in my last group that more-or-less didn't read. Anything beyond a glance at a PHB was asking too much of him. Now he did often know a lot of the contents and rough ideas of much of the system from watching YouTube videos and listening to audiobooks while driving around for his job. He asked if I had considered reading my handout page(s) aloud and recording it, because he could listen to that while driving, which was apparently when information soaked in best. As someone that loves to read, this difference was shocking.

This is not unusual. I love to read, and always have. However, after years of attending VA classes and groups, I discovered that I absorb facts better by hearing it spoken aloud. Weird.

I'm well aware that many people learn better through audio than through written materials. What surprised me was to see a tabletop RPG player that almost entirely forms his learning of the rules without reading any of them.

My players would never read a two-page handout on setting information. I keep handouts to one or two paragraphs. Some don't read even that but at least a couple players will have done so and retain enough to say "Hey, wasn't there something about this guy in a handout?" Roll20 makes it easy to fill their screen with that handout when necessary.

My players view the game as beginning when we are all assembled and I have started talking. Anything else is homework. Character creation is the only homework they do, and only because that is the ticket to play.

These are good friends I'm talking about. Some I've known for over 30 years, but tabletop rpg's are not their primary passion. Anyone reading this post is not a typical rpg player. Typical players don't care enough about how many d20 can be stacked on the head of a pin to read a forum post like this one. I'm ok with that. I just have to remember that they come to the table to enjoy our fellowship, not to experience the amazing new setting I wrote (which really is pretty amazing but that joy is primarily for me).

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 18, 2020, 03:51:37 AM
So I'm wondering if any of the rest of you have encountered this? Do some Players just not give a shit? Is it a problem with handout length?

The only handout my players need to read is the social contract (about a paragraph and half long). Any archives I hand out for players to take a look at are simply that, archives to take a look at. Players can role-play whether or not their characters take a look or not. Not every character does examinations of everything. Characters are busy enough.

I hadn't thought of making an audio file of the handout. I'm going to try that and make a video file as well to see how that works out.

I'm getting ideas from this thread... 

Quote from: Semaj Khan on December 18, 2020, 06:33:08 PM
I'm getting ideas from this thread... 

....

I've used small books (up to ~10 pages) printed out in Acrobat's booklet mode in the place of books actually found by the adventurers. I'll seed facts and additional marginalia in them as well, to give the characters something to find on the way, but without making it so obvious as "this is what's worth hearing about in the book."