Quote from: jeff37923 on December 18, 2020, 03:51:37 AMDo some Players just not give a shit?

Essentially no players give a shit. Most won't even read the descriptions of spells and skills their character has. I've not done handouts for a long, long time.

If it's a Quick Play Cheat Sheet I don't make it longer than one page, one-sided, 12 pt. font. For setting descriptions, mostly verbal pitches as reminders as needed. Other than that I let players take their own notes, of which there will be consequences to their actions if they flagrantly forget too often.

Attention spans are too short. The competition from other entertainment is too great for those younger who grew up in this lesser age defined by Social Media. 

My handouts generally take the form of "rules documents" that basically replace any game books, but I mostly run either;

- the fantasy system I'm nearly done writing (so the handout is an optimized for tablet reading 6x9 single column 689 page bookmarked PDF currently).

- my rebuild of the WoD engine focused mainly on Mage the Ascension (64 page document I've actually put links to in some past threads).

- a WEG/d6-system based Star Trek game (which I've also posted a link to in a past thread).

as such they pretty much have to read my handouts to even have any idea how to make characters, which dice to use and the like.

Yes, some Players just not give a shit.

Quote from: Vidgrip on December 18, 2020, 02:24:26 PMMy players view the game as beginning when we are all assembled and I have started talking. Anything else is homework. Character creation is the only homework they do, and only because that is the ticket to play.

I've found that most casual players have exactly this attitude.

well they read mine but i tend to try and make them eye catching by plugging in old elmore art from becmi into them. working on one currently as an exercise in removing the d20 mechanic from 3e and attaching the remainder to D6 Fantasy, which for the last week has been theorizing, research, hypo-test, and layout. it too will feature as much of my favorite old school art as i can squeeze in and since players have asked specifically for this project i'm sure they will read it when its ready. i gave them a quick notes (artless) version of the mass combat rules i was tinkering with for D6 fantasy and they've been using it to do star wars and star trek fleet battles with printed cardboard ship tokens and having fun w/o me; this was a pleasant surprise because i had not consider that possibility as i had made it for knights and archers and ogres and giants and dragons and such.

Put something crucial to the pre-campaign notes.
Tell them that it exists in the handout and they will probably die if they are not aware of this facet.

Honestly, if you can't get your players to read a pamphlet describing the world they are about to be a part of, look for new players who give a toss about the work you've put into it.

Great thing with the internet:  lots of players, very few good DM's.
Pick of the litter to get what you want so YOU can have a good time as well.

Most of my players read it all. Two players never do and constantly need reminding. Sometimes they don't even know what their own characters can do, even when they've created them themselves - often the other players know better than they do what their characters can do! (they barely look at their character sheets during the game). And these are both players who have gamed for years! I sometimes wonder what the hell they get out of it.

Quote from: Simon W on December 20, 2020, 06:40:01 AM
Most of my players read it all. Two players never do and constantly need reminding. Sometimes they don't even know what their own characters can do, even when they've created them themselves - often the other players know better than they do what their characters can do! (they barely look at their character sheets during the game). And these are both players who have gamed for years! I sometimes wonder what the hell they get out of it.

Maybe the snacks are good?

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 19, 2020, 02:47:51 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 18, 2020, 03:51:37 AMDo some Players just not give a shit?

Essentially no players give a shit. Most won't even read the descriptions of spells and skills their character has. I've not done handouts for a long, long time.

Yeah, occasionally my players ask me what their spells do.

I am like, you cant do your one fucking job.

Quote from: Shasarak on December 20, 2020, 03:38:24 PM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 19, 2020, 02:47:51 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 18, 2020, 03:51:37 AMDo some Players just not give a shit?

Essentially no players give a shit. Most won't even read the descriptions of spells and skills their character has. I've not done handouts for a long, long time.

Yeah, occasionally my players ask me what their spells do.

I am like, you cant do your one fucking job.

Good grief, that's just sad.  Hope you can cut them loose.
That's the one suggestion I always avoided about getting your friends and family involved in the hobby, 'cause if they suck you can't really get rid of them.
Better to find people just for the game that can be pruned if they end up coming up short.
Sooner or later, you'll end up with a decent group of dedicated players that make the experience enjoyable for all.

Alternately, I as GM can just create a game world which does not require boxed text.

Dedicated players will get more out of the game session than casual players. Playing through the rules and exploring the game world will be a richer experience for them than the casual player.

But most players are not dedicated players, they are casual players. And that's okay.

Put in power ups.

I.e if you want them to read some brief setting notes and choose where their characters come from give them some kind of bonus or something they get based on the region.

Then they'll read it.

Most won't read it -- but you only need one player to be the kind that enjoys reading it -- and then they can remind the other players when something comes up.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on December 21, 2020, 03:49:42 AM
Most won't read it -- but you only need one player to be the kind that enjoys reading it -- and then they can remind the other players when something comes up.

Yes, a second player reading all or part of it is also useful.  Then those two players can have discussions in character that will enlighten the rest.  More than two players that read it doesn't typically improved that dynamic much--unless you get to the point where all the players have digested the material and now can make allusions to it without spelling it out.  But if you are happy with casual players in your game (as I am), then you can forget that last outcome from background material. You need to show it in play to get casuals acting on that level.

The key to writing a good handout that will be read by the players is to pepper it with disturbing statements which have zero to do with the narrative. People are morbidly attracted to that sort of stuff and don't want to miss a damned thing.