Quote from: Elfdart;1031778The same goes for shitty DMs who get their hackles up when PCs decide to either sleep in armor or just do without sleep for a day or so because while the DM is stupid, the players certainly aren't because they know when an asshole DM is just licking his chops for that surprise ambush at night when no one has armor. It's almost as bad as the DM who whines that the PCs refuse to take on followers/henchmen, when he's fucked them over every time they brought NPCs into the group.

The solution to having an asshole DM is to not game with that motherfucker. Problem solved.

Quote from: jeff37923;1031787The solution to having an asshole DM is to not game with that motherfucker. Problem solved.

^ What he said.

The problem with PCs going around concentrations of people while fully loaded with armor and weapons is a problem in just about all genres of RPGs. It is bad in fantasy, it can be downright stupid in science fiction. Most settlements exist as safe areas where PCs can rest, recuperate, rearm, and get ready for their next adventure. Can there still be excitement? Yes, but of the picked pocket or bar brawl or social intrigue variety. Unless the settlement is a Klingon-like society or a war zone, full weapons and armor will be discouraged by those wishing to keep the peace. Even warrior societies will have strict codes of conduct to follow regarding weapon use lest their settlement become a wasteland of constant pointless warfare.

How to discourage PCs from walking around fully armed and armored?

First off - don't let them in. No city guard or police force is going to want people armed or armored wandering around their settlement. The potential for combat is just too great with a walking target like that in their midst. If the PCs insist on being armed and armored, then they will not be allowed in the city gates. If this is a problem that has been encountered before, then there will be businesses who will cater to these PCs outside of the city walls - usually third and forth rate businesses who aren't reputable enough to have a spot inside the gate.

Second - if they are in the settlement, don't allow them business. If you see someone wearing gang colors and holding a weapon, do you want to talk to them? No, you don't. They look like they are there to cause trouble, nothing else or they wouldn't be so armed and armored. It will be hard to find food, lodging, and other services because nobody wants their business associated with thugs. If the PCs are looking for patrons then it may be even harder to find some who will willing approach such questionable adventurers (unless they have questionable motives and jobs themselves that need doing). City guards and police will follow them around, just in case fighting that they are obviously ready for breaks out.

With that said, there are special cases. I had a Traveller player whose Scout had survived explosive decompression in chargen, so he wore a TL 14 vacc suit in every artificial environment he was in due to the fear of that happening again. I allowed that as a phobia of the PC's even though it had some negative social interaction effects (odor) and the PC would shed his vacc suit on worlds with breathable atmospheres (mainly for maintenance and cleaning).

Ultimately though, PCs will try to get away with whatever you allow them too. Just treat the situation as realistic without unduly punishing them.

And just don't be that asshole GM that will cause players to try and justify their behavior.

It depends on the norms and laws of the in-game location, and what social role/status the PCs have.

In my original campaign and some places like it in later campaigns, carrying weapons around is pretty normal in most towns except in high-status areas, temples, guild halls, palaces, near nobility, etc. However groups of well-armed people, or some conspicuous weapons/armor will draw attention, as will behaviour (readying weapons, menacing, etc).

My later campaign settings tend to have more places that are more sensitive to carrying/wearing conspicuous weapons and armor, but they also have open-carry/wear societies in other places. They also tend to have more specific groups with specific expected and allowed equipment in appropriate places. In some places, carrying certain weapons implies you are the sort of person who carries that weapon and is allowed to.

There are often exceptions for status, and there's often status for people who are strong well-equipped fighters who behave themselves. My later campaigns also tend to not just have a numerous heavily-armed generic no-questions-asked class, so a group of well-armed people tend to be noticed and hailed to see where they fit in the local power structure.

Depends on the location and local laws and just how often all hell breaks loose. Ib say AD&D youd be crazy to go anywhere unarmed in a city as any minute you could be accosted by undead, wererats, thugs and other hazards. Outside of AD&D its very YMMV. But usually the more dangerous the town the more likely everyones walking armed.

Just depends on the city, culture and occasion. If they complain too much just have them always taking ages getting anywhere because of all the guys in full armour with their barded war horses stopping anyone moving. Put them behind the fellow who always travels with a horse pulled cart full of adventure gear like tents and iron rations who is "just nipping to the barbers". They will get the idea.

I can't lie, the idea of guys clunking around a peaceful safe city in full armor and weapons makes me want to turn it into something like a 3 stooges routine- the dude turning and the far end of his 2 handed sword knocking over the carefully stacked pyramid of apples one merchant has out. When he turns to see the ruckus, he hits another merchant in the nuts causing him to fall into a dyer's tub, turning them a weird color, spins again crashing into a pottery merchant and his goods, with pots falling one at a time to hit the guy on the the head, etc. Eventually the whole market chasing the party down the street for all the chaos they caused.

Quote from: Elfdart;1031778The same goes for shitty DMs who get their hackles up when PCs decide to either sleep in armor or just do without sleep for a day or so because while the DM is stupid, the players certainly aren't because they know when an asshole DM is just licking his chops for that surprise ambush at night when no one has armor.

I agree with the "don't be an asshole GM" concept, but if characters, who can't see at night, are in Goblin Woods, which is lousy with Goblins, who can see at night, the most likely time for an attack is at night and I don't really think that is being an asshole GM, licking his chops. That is just gobbos acting as they they should. On the flip side, the GM shouldn't get wound up over them sleeping armor or not sleeping in Goblin Woods, either. That is adventurers acting as they they should. Now you tell me you are sleeping in armor in Ye Olde Ritz-Carlton Inn in Safeton, the capital of Snoozy Shire, that I find hard to accept. But I wouldn't accept an ogre kicking down the room door in Ye Olde Ritz-Carlton Inn in Safeton, the capital of Snoozy Shire, either.

For all you folks with experience, how hard is it to sleep in armor? I know US troops in the field sleep in body armor. And I have read about many battles where armies marched into position during the night or the night before and slept in formation so they could attack at first light (not sure how armored up they would be), although I am not sure if they slept in harness.

Quote from: AsenRG;1031718So they allow you to carry body armour, RPGs and assault rifles with grenade launchers:D? Because that's the equivalent of "plate mail and heavy weapons" for today's weaponry.

The closest equivalent to a grenade launcher in fantasy is the proverbial Fireball. See also D&D spells like Magic Missile and Mage Armor fitting your examples perfectly. This is why it makes no sense to restrict physical weapons and armor without also banning, say, all wizards. It would be more consistent to restrict the use of any weaponry, be it physical or magical.

We sometimes used to play "Rich Merchants" when things got a bit dull in our RuneQuest game, or when we didn't know what to do next. Basically, the PCs would dress up in rich clothes and walk through the roughest area of town, putting on a posh accent and talking about the quaint hovels, pretty children begging and so on, then we'd wait to be set upon by local hoodlums, allowing us to dispatch them with the greatest ease. Since everyone was a RuneLord/Priest combination, there was little risk to us, we got rid of some local thugs and had a thoroughly enjoyable session.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1031564My players in Dark Albion or Lion & Dragon are always surprised, when they're first playing, at the fact that for the most part they can't just wander around the streets of London dressed in plate mail and heavily armed.

It seems like in most D&D games, there is this notion that you can wander around any fantasy city, with no special governmental authority or whatnot, looking like you're ready to engage in mass slaughter.

And I get that not every game needs to be entirely "medieval authentic", but I have trouble imagining most states of fantasy governments functioning effectively, where people who don't have political authority get to go around in full gear.

It depends.  I am not sure a dark ages Viking inspired world (where every man enforces the law, say in Iceland) would be amiss with armed PCs.

Usually the key is for the environment to be realistic.  If expensive armor was constantly being stolen or travelers are being attacked on the streets, the city is either going to be an armed camp or not get many visitors. I can't walk around with a grenade launcher at the local mall, but I am also unlikely to be attacked by a mob at random.  If the probability of this happening was 50%+ then I would consider either not going or going prepared.  

If you are simulating late medieval England, people being killed on the streets by gangs (as opposed to the local nobility which is kind of a special case) would result in relatively strong responses from the local authorities.  Highwaymen were hanged in England, and they were doing their activities outside of cities.  Gangs so numerous and dangerous that a group of adventurers are likely to be attacked on the streets (meaning it's happening to dozens of such groups, if the PCs get targeted) would be a complete collapse of local authority.  In most scenarios that would result in a rather drastic response from the nobility.  

And if towns are basically safe, then it is not really needed to be tromping around in uncomfortable armor.

In a hyper realistic setting running around in expensive full plate probably makes people assume that you are a Knight or Noble aka someone general rules don't apply to anyways.

So you need a fantasy setting where the social order has advanced to modern levels (We either know who is Noble enough to be armed or guards can read papers) but at the same time it must be a social order that doesn't value the ability to defend yourself.

So this city is some sort of medieval modern Japan (everyone is literate and there is basically no come) or some sort of Tyrannical City where only a select few are armed and it doesn't matter your social rank or if the city is safe enough to be unarmed in.

Quote from: Big Andy;1031825I agree with the "don't be an asshole GM" concept, but if characters, who can't see at night, are in Goblin Woods, which is lousy with Goblins, who can see at night, the most likely time for an attack is at night and I don't really think that is being an asshole GM, licking his chops. That is just gobbos acting as they they should. On the flip side, the GM shouldn't get wound up over them sleeping armor or not sleeping in Goblin Woods, either. That is adventurers acting as they they should. Now you tell me you are sleeping in armor in Ye Olde Ritz-Carlton Inn in Safeton, the capital of Snoozy Shire, that I find hard to accept. But I wouldn't accept an ogre kicking down the room door in Ye Olde Ritz-Carlton Inn in Safeton, the capital of Snoozy Shire, either.

The issue isn't the attackers (especially when the PCs are careless), it's an asshole DM subjecting the PCs to a "canned hunt" where the characters are expected to leave themselves open to attack when simple precautions would mitigate much or the risk. One way you can tell if the DM is an asshole is if the PCs are regularly caught in compromising positions through no fault of their own, while the PCs never get the chance to catch the goblins napping and sans armor, or an ogre unarmed because he put down his club while taking a shit.

QuoteFor all you folks with experience, how hard is it to sleep in armor? I know US troops in the field sleep in body armor. And I have read about many battles where armies marched into position during the night or the night before and slept in formation so they could attack at first light (not sure how armored up they would be), although I am not sure if they slept in harness.

I'd think it depends on the armor. Padded and chainmail shouldn't be much of a problem, though the plate armors would no doubt be uncomfortable. Hardened leather armor is fairly similar to a full set of football pads and I managed to sleep in those when I was a kid (including the helmet). I guess if you're tired enough, you can sleep while wearing almost anything. Besides, I can't imagine sleeping in armor to be any more difficult than sleeping on the ground outdoors -something adventurers are assumed to do on a regular basis without penalty.

In Warhammer, its a no-no.

In D&D, depends on the setting and locale.

As a default in my OD&D, the PCs adventure on the borderlands and frontier of the Empire where laws are lack. Thus, walking around tanked isn't unusual for either PCs or NPCs. It's fantasy wild west via Hollywood so I'm fine with it.

Quote from: Elfdart;1032093The issue isn't the attackers (especially when the PCs are careless), it's an asshole DM subjecting the PCs to a "canned hunt" where the characters are expected to leave themselves open to attack when simple precautions would mitigate much or the risk. One way you can tell if the DM is an asshole is if the PCs are regularly caught in compromising positions through no fault of their own, while the PCs never get the chance to catch the goblins napping and sans armor, or an ogre unarmed because he put down his club while taking a shit.

I gave the answer to this back on post #31.

In most D&D worlds I'm not going to be half as scared of the guy in full plate with the pole arm as I am of the skinny little twerp in the robes and pointy hat with a stick. The latter is the one who can cast fireballs, lightning bolts, magic missiles which never miss, etc.  Magic is much scarier shit, man!