That too.

Quote from: EOTB;1033200In AD&D the fighter only keeps the multiple attacks if the enemy is less than 1HD, so against 0-level humans Conan would still do that.

However, if if the DM throws people with 1HD out which negates that special attack, are they using the morale system?  Because even if Conan's only taking one or two guys down a round, it shouldn't be long until softer targets elsewhere convince them to run.

Not in Second edition.  Not in Moldovay's Red Box in 1981, not in the Expert Set of 1983, although in there at least the Fighter gets Lance and Spear combat.  In a game about Dungeon exploring...  

Looking through all of those, even if they did allow for it, Bandits have 1 HD in both the Red and Blue books, meaning the only things the Fighter can cleave through are Kobolds, Halflings and 'normal' people in those games.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1033202Not in Second edition.  Not in Moldovay's Red Box in 1981, not in the Expert Set of 1983, although in there at least the Fighter gets Lance and Spear combat.  In a game about Dungeon exploring...  

Looking through all of those, even if they did allow for it, Bandits have 1 HD in both the Red and Blue books, meaning the only things the Fighter can cleave through are Kobolds, Halflings and 'normal' people in those games.

Despite not all of the rules migrating from OD&D, I still find B/X to be much more OD&D-ish than AD&D-ish. I'd say this hypothetical version of B/X where the fighter did get multiple attacks, the threshold should be 1HD or less, not less than 1 HD. :-D

Regardless, your point does stand. If I were to plan a whole campaign around unarmored urban adventure, I would want to use a system that included more unarmored defensive/dodge focus.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1033205Despite not all of the rules migrating from OD&D, I still find B/X to be much more OD&D-ish than AD&D-ish. I'd say this hypothetical version of B/X where the fighter did get multiple attacks, the threshold should be 1HD or less, not less than 1 HD. :-D

Regardless, your point does stand. If I were to plan a whole campaign around unarmored urban adventure, I would want to use a system that included more unarmored defensive/dodge focus.

FOR ME:  5e's positive AC matrix, couple that with the flattened numbering and the Proficiency Bonus system, that allows me to do so, by turning armour into a damage reduction system, which I've spoken of before.

But that requires me to house rule and I NEVER argue houserules.  Because they fix everything and are unique to everyone who does.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1033202Not in Second edition.  Not in Moldovay's Red Box in 1981, not in the Expert Set of 1983, although in there at least the Fighter gets Lance and Spear combat.  In a game about Dungeon exploring...  

Looking through all of those, even if they did allow for it, Bandits have 1 HD in both the Red and Blue books, meaning the only things the Fighter can cleave through are Kobolds, Halflings and 'normal' people in those games.

Look, if you really want to blow your mind consider how in 1st edition, the overbearing rules allow a half-dozen 0-level grunts to routinely take down and kill high level characters.  And then think about how few ever consider using them in play to their own benefit, instead methodically standing there rolling a d20 round after round after round...

Quote from: Headless;1032537Its pretty easy to get a couple hours snooze even with 50 pounds of SAPI plates on.  But I don't think I ever slept through the night wearing my vest.  It was rigid and heavy an only took a second to put on so i usually slep ontop of it.  The ground got cold.

Slept in my vest many a time. Not very uncomfortable, though the helmet makes for a lousy pillow.

Quote from: jhkim;1032543In many historical and fantasy societies, though, there is no professional military or professional police. That makes a big difference. It can be hard to picture from today's world, but it used to be that it was the standard.

Not hard to picture at all - I've played Runequest Vikings already - but I'm talking about societies where there is professional military, but not professional police. That maps best to D&D's technological/societal levels, I've found - and the same model can often be applied to later societies.
I thought that would be clear from the fact that we were arguing weapon restrictions. If there's nobody to enforce them, there's no restrictions!

QuoteIf you read historical epics like the Icelandic sagas or some Greek sagas, then well-armed visitors are often welcomed as being potential protectors. They are turned on if they aren't cooperative, but first there is usually an effort to make friends with them.

Yes, because it's better to get some new friends than 20 cms of iron through your gut, and it's even better if those friends agree to deal with your problems:D!
However, walking around with your weapons in Rome ain't going to work well for you, despite it being set in an equally "early" time period.

Quote from: Kiero;1032608Precisely. That realism cuts both ways.

In my historical game, the PCs were unarmoured and carrying only hidden daggers when they were attacked in a dockside wineshop inside the city. Their opponents were also unarmoured and carrying either daggers, clubs or improvising with the furniture. On both sides, cloaks were wrapped around forearms to serve as makeshift shields. As the better fighters, the PCs pasted the thugs, but it was a more interesting fight than it would have been, had everyone been armoured and tooled up with proper weapons.

Precisely. And when then someone pulls out an "illegal" weapon, it's going to be A Big Thing, and you know it's not an accident:).

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1033199At least in OD&D, a 4th level fighter got 4 attacks against 1 HD enemies.  Conan will cut a swath through the rabble easily.

Yes, that's why the Fighter gets 1hd+1, we know;). He can do that...but not against a group of Veterans.

Personally, I like better the way it works in EPT or Crimson Blades. In Crimson Blades, your HD are d6, and you roll your HD as attack, adding the bonus from high attributes. Each die that hits, is damage (which depends on the enemy's armour, and whether you're using a two-handed weapon or something balanced and quick, but might impact multiple opponents).
The 4HD fighter remains just as dangerous against 4 1-st level veterans, but if they're armed and armoured, he might wish he had a bigger weapon (killing one man per round will make them think again quite soon)...but he might well be injured, unless he's got armour. Which fits with how I imagine "heroes against veterans" should work.
Against rabble, you just need your trusty, thrusty sword, and the first round might be their last.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1032619Armed, or keeping weapons handy?  In medieval England, "armed" meant wearing armor.

If it was a travel guide, I doubt it was Medieval.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1032619Armed, or keeping weapons handy?  In medieval England, "armed" meant wearing armor.

Considering some of the descriptions of these places... BOTH!

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1033202Not in Second edition.  Not in Moldovay's Red Box in 1981, not in the Expert Set of 1983, although in there at least the Fighter gets Lance and Spear combat.  In a game about Dungeon exploring...  

Looking through all of those, even if they did allow for it, Bandits have 1 HD in both the Red and Blue books, meaning the only things the Fighter can cleave through are Kobolds, Halflings and 'normal' people in those games.

sigh... here we go again.
2e Allows fighters that attack as well. The rule is squirrelled away in the DMG.
The rule is mentioned in one of the issues of SR and carries over to Holmes B and Moldvy BX. Not sure about Mentzer BECMI/RC. And theres a note in X of BX for giving high level fighters extra attacks.

Quote from: EOTB;1033200In AD&D the fighter only keeps the multiple attacks if the enemy is less than 1HD, so against 0-level humans Conan would still do that.

However, if if the DM throws people with 1HD out which negates that special attack, are they using the morale system?  Because even if Conan's only taking one or two guys down a round, it shouldn't be long until softer targets elsewhere convince them to run.

Even in 5th. Let's say the the Fighter alone (because what dumbass gang is jumping a 4-5 man party). He's only got a knife.

Five on one odds against a Fighter with a couple of levels under his belt means at least one dead. Maybe two. In the first round.

Unless you're running npcs like dumbasses, they bolt at that point.

Quote from: Omega;1033469sigh... here we go again.
2e Allows fighters that attack as well. The rule is squirrelled away in the DMG.

So a book every player has, of course.  Oh wait...

Quote from: Omega;1033469The rule is mentioned in one of the issues of SR and carries over to Holmes B and Moldvy BX. Not sure about Mentzer BECMI/RC. And theres a note in X of BX for giving high level fighters extra attacks.

SR? I don't honestly know that acronym, and if it's not in the Class description, are you sure people will notice it?  My personal experience says 'nope!'

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1033618SR? I don't honestly know that acronym, and if it's not in the Class description, are you sure people will notice it?  My personal experience says 'nope!'

By context, I think he means Strategic Review -- precursor magazine to Dragon (although I'd always heard it as 'The Strategic Review', so it threw me as well).

And this is an argument that no one can win (i.e. you're both 'right'). We each experienced the game in a different way. Some people had access to all the supplements, all the optional DMG rules, all the magazine articles, etc., and some people just had the basic books (and hopefully a DM with the DM sections thereof).

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1033648By context, I think he means Strategic Review -- precursor magazine to Dragon (although I'd always heard it as 'The Strategic Review', so it threw me as well).

And this is an argument that no one can win (i.e. you're both 'right'). We each experienced the game in a different way. Some people had access to all the supplements, all the optional DMG rules, all the magazine articles, etc., and some people just had the basic books (and hopefully a DM with the DM sections thereof).

I don't honestly care about being 'right' here, I'm saying that a decent amount for players aren't going to know because not everyone had access to the other books. Hell, I had no idea that 2e had the multiple target rule in the DMG and I ran that edition the most.

Just because you missed it does not invalidate it being a rule. Theres a couple I've missed over the decades. That doesnt mean those rules arent there.