So my PCs are exploring a catacomb complex under an old temple having killed the orcs and goblins that were using the temple as a base.

This is their first ever dungeon and their first D&D campaign so as I stated in a previous thread somewhere I am being highly cliched in some of the aspects.

The temple catacombs were sealed to bind a demon. The tombs have not been opened for hundreds of years so the only creatures that exist are undead and demon and a couple of demon servants.

So with the undead I have been using fatigue as the touch effect. its been very successful I allow the PCs to cure a point of fatigue for a cure light (or 1 level of laying hands etc). If they are reduced to 0 fatigue by the creatures they will become undead.

It is successful because it
i) avoids the meta game level loss that makes no in game rational sense
ii) is much worse that HP damage as fatigue is long lasting (recover 1 point per long rest)
iii) its capped at 6 points no matter the level of the PC.
iv) fatigue has a death spiral with different ranks giving various penalties.

anyone else done similar

WotC actually did experiment with fatigue and exhaustion penalties from various undead creatures in 3.5 D&D and I was surprised that didn't catch on more for the reasons you've stated. They even added spells in the 3.0 to 3.5 transition that inflicted fatigue and exhaustion.

I will certainly be using fatigue and exhaustion from monster attacks in the near future.

I use each ability score as a sort of pool. Your CON score is your wounds pool, CHA is a social standing pool, WIS is sanity, etc. Instead of level drain (which I dislike purely due to the recalculations required on the character sheet), I have the undead cause 'wasting' which deducts from the STR pool, i.e. fatigue.

Losing points from a pool, like fatigue, doesn't change ability score modifiers (v.s. recalculating dislike), but the pool value is used for ability checks, which I use a lot.

A character reaches 0 in fatigue due to undead, they become undead themselves. Regaining pool points is story-based, so in this situation the PC would require something like a religious purification ceremony to regain those points.

Quote from: jibbajibba;832981ii) is much worse that HP damage as fatigue is long lasting (recover 1 point per long rest)
iii) its capped at 6 points no matter the level of the PC.
iv) fatigue has a death spiral with different ranks giving various penalties.

Are these all your own rules or are you building on a fatigue concept found in 5e somewhere? (I've only read quickly through the first release of the Basic PDF.)

If you want to make it worse and create a sense of creeping doom, maybe add a mechanic that makes the fatigue get worse automatically instead of recovering automatically. Like roll a save every day, modified by current fatigue points, or gain another fatigue.

Still let minor heals gain a point back, and let higher level heals clear it up completely.

We use permanent HP damage, with it being very, very difficult to reverse.  Terrifies the PCs to no end.

Quote from: Arminius;833037Are these all your own rules or are you building on a fatigue concept found in 5e somewhere? (I've only read quickly through the first release of the Basic PDF.)

If you want to make it worse and create a sense of creeping doom, maybe add a mechanic that makes the fatigue get worse automatically instead of recovering automatically. Like roll a save every day, modified by current fatigue points, or gain another fatigue.

Still let minor heals gain a point back, and let higher level heals clear it up completely.

It's an exisiting 5e mechanic.
You get fatigue for a bunch of stuff from starvation to exposure to hypothermia.
From the Basic rules, pg 107:

Some special abilities and environmental hazards, such as starvation and the long-term effects of freezing or scorching temperatures, can lead to a special condition called exhaustion. Exhaustion is measured in six levels. An effect can give a creature one or more levels of exhaustion, as specified in the effect's description.

Level Effect

1 Disadvantage on ability checks
2 Speed halved
3 Disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws
4 Hit point maximum halved
5 Speed reduced to 0
6 Death  

Because its so harsh I wouldn't want to impose an automatic daily increase.

The major bad in the dungeon though has an innate ability that causes a Wis check each round or take a point of fatigue.... One of the PCs has a scroll that can negate that effect for 5 minutes (the effect of the scroll and the mechanical power of the demon are not explained in game terms the scroll merely speaks of protecting against the creatures innate evil) of course they have to know when to use it.

Thanks.

About automatic deterioration, you could stretch the track out so that the fatigue effects and save modifiers increase more slowly.

Though possibly at different rates, so the save penalty still equals however many "boxes of infection" are checked off, but fatigue only increases by one per 6 boxes. Or if it's all at the same rate, then you might as well just roll once per week or whatever.

As noted in the older level drain thread. I have been using fatigue instead of level drain for 5e from the get-go. Feels more appropriate and the effects of fatigue are more in keeping with how we envisioned it.

As soon as I saw what the fatigue rules were going to be, I had thought that they'd be good to use for certain types of attack-effects, undead among them.