I don't award XP at all, anymore.  I found my players were too into doing whatever they could to earn the max experience possible for any given situation, and I got tired of using the stock XP system, where after two sessions everyone would level.  Put too much work on me as a DM and the players.  So, we all talked it out, and I now level the group when either a) I have given them something really difficult to overcome or b) when I hit a plot point where I feel it is time to level them.  This puts them leveling every five or six sessions, and everyone is happy with it.  I just compensate the lack of XP gains with some neat magic items and other cool stuff.

Will this work for every group?  Hell no.  Works for mine, though.

I see very little reason to give xps beside roleplaying.  The games are called "roleplaying games" after all.  I do not bother with CR as far as xps are concerned and I just award a basic amount at the end of the evening.  I give extra bonuses once in a while for a very clever ideas (I usually do not wait until the end of the evening but I do it on the spot between 50 to 100 xps on the spot) or when a player makes a joke that makes every player at the table laugh (he gets 50 xps immediately).  In the latter case, I believe that a player that goes out of his way to be clever and make everyone's enjoyment of the game better deserves recognition.  This recognition is in the form of character advancement.

I remain,

The Masked Cucumber

It seems strange to me. One of the most important aspects of the game (in my opinion at least) is the role playing bit...and yet it is the one area I have so much trouble rewarding

I mean my "star" system for bonus points etc is used any system/game we play in. I have no trouble rewarding players for the more concrete/specific goals of the session but ever since I began gaming, the awarding of points for the role playing stuff, has been left in the hands of the players.

This has worked well and has met with very little opposition but it has drawn curious comments either because it is an aspect(the awarding of points for role playing) that very few find any trouble with or that my system itself is open to abuse (although to be fair, this has not occured -or at least there has not been any evidence that my players have conspired to use the system in any way but in good faith)

Regards,
David R

Quote from: NightfangI don't award XP at all, anymore.  I found my players were too into doing whatever they could to earn the max experience possible for any given situation....

Yeah. This is the same reason I stopped telling them exactly how much XP they had, or even how much XP they earned that session. I keep track of it all and if they need to make a magical item I let them know if they feel they have the inner strength or whatever to pull it off. Nobody complains and there hasn't been one single "hey lets go do this for the XP" discussion since I started doing it. I'm glad because man, that was really annoying the shit out of me for some reason.

Quote from: blakkieI find it illogical to try encourage roleplaying by rewarding with pure number crunch. Roleplaying is it's own reward. Roleplay that forwards the story is especially a reward since it forwards the story in the general direction of what the character is interested in.

I've been thinking about this actually. I mean it's a game right ? So why not reward certain behaviour with pure number crunch. It's beneficial to the players and their characters and at the same time it encourages the desired style of play. In other words something as elusive as role playing has a tangible effect in the game.(What is good role playing is off course left up to the group)

Sure role playing is it's own reward - I don't think the awarding of bonus points detracts from that, at least not in my games. I observed that rewarding role playing creates an insentive amongst the players to be on top of their game more often then not. They realize that they are all going to get the same amount of xp/points but if they go a little out of their way and create a truly memorable session (which the other players find groovy) there is a little something extra for them.

Regards,
David R

I don't award bonus XP for roleplaying. That said, I don't award them by the rules either - I just award a lump sum for completing an adventure. Usually somewhere around 250*average party level, adjusted up a bit for low-level characters and down for high-level ones (my current group has about a one-level discrepancy due to characters dying and new ones being brought in).

I stopped giving out RP awards individually after it came to my attention that someone can be roleplaying there character correctly and well by not doing anything that would bring them to your attention.  

Not all characters crave the limelight and sometimes players feel like they dominated one campaign too much so they play someone in the next who does the opposite for a while to give someone else the stage.  

One of my friends most memorable characters was a devoted guardian to a PC that we discovered was needed to save the world.  The guardian did nothing to risk his charge and nothing to further any goals besides keeping his charge alive.  It meant he didn't talk a whole bunch and he didn't go running off into danger or adventure.  Some members of the party would practically forget he was around until combat started.  His charge suffered damage all of like twice in 5-6 levels of adventuring.  One of those was from Dragon Breath.  He did an amazing job.

I give out extra EXP from time to time if the party role played well as a group.
If someone shines as an individual there reward will be something in the game that will go better for them.

@David R: Oh no, I'm all for tangible benefit. But have it flow as in-character results. For example the character discussing things with people in the bar? Perhaps a business opportunity or unexpected aid pops up.

A character puts effort and resources into a goal that is meaningful for that character? Say they arrange to build a house. Cool things are going to come from that. Maybe not exactly what the character/player was looking for initially, and they might encounter hurdles, but damn it they are going to have fun.

A character going out of their way to try find something that such a character would reasonably be interested in, the process of looking for it described by the player in terms of the character looking for it? That is likely going to be something fun to play with? Yup, they are going to find it. They might still meet some cool challenge to obtain it, it might come with some unexpected consiquences, or it might come in a slightly different form than what was originally searched for, but it'll come none-the-less.

Individual, or party, experience for accomplishing the resulting significant goal or the normal XP overcoming the interposing hurdles? That is a different matter. I still don't like individual XP in D&D, but if they did truely do it on their own with no backup and soley their own risk I probably would give it. But that is really an offline one on one adventure, and I'd much rather go slightly heavier on cash and material benefits rather than XP in D&D. I know other systems, one of which is Burning Wheel, is set up differently where individual character actions and meeting character goals are really the only source of advancement there is anyway.

I award XP based solely on the quantity and quality of snacks and goodies brought to each gaming session.

For my current D&D game I stick to the CR system.  For many other games I've given everyone who showed up the same reward.  I expect everyone to participate equally and if someone isn't as engaged as the rest of the group I consider it my job to get them involved.  Giving that player fewer shiny points isn't going to accomplish that goal.

I award Xp for showing up. Everyone gets the same amount. It's usually based on the length of the session and the kind of development we are doing (if the characters are supposed to be fairly static then the Xp award is very slow--if they're advancing in ability then it's faster).

I don't mind the Xp for roleplaying idea and wouldn't have a problem with it--but mostly, with our groups, people play the way they like and I'm okay with that.

-Marco

I actually like concrete xp amounts that vary by PC and are based on a concrete system. So far I've never given roleplay xp, but I'm thinking of including them.

My approach would be mostly a mix of the already talked about token system (every player has x token he can award others with) and a goal based system.

The archievment based system would be that every PC has a certain amount of major and minor character schticks and goals. Whenever he archives to do his thing or reaches one of his character goals, he get's an award depending on wether he did so in a major or minor way and if it was a major or minor goal or schtick.

So the powergamers avenger gets xp whenever he challenges/beats a foe in one on one combat or when he kills another of his families murderers, while the happy go lucky gnome gains xp whenever he tricks somebody in a benevolent way or frees somebody from opression. That way I can also easily see that one character lacks spotlight whenever he lags behind in xp.

Quote from: blakkie@David R: Oh no, I'm all for tangible benefit. But have it flow as in-character results.

Yeah, I see where you are coming from. I think the reason why awarding xp/bonus points for role playing works for me instead of the method you describe - which is extremely productive in my opinion - is that because of the style of the way how I run games, very improv in nature, makes it difficult for me to separate "rewards" for the pcs and the actual evolving storyline.

Idealy, I should as the gm incorporate the "rewards" within the plot, but as is, sometimes there is too much going on and hence I prefer to just let the mechanical aspect of the system take care of any role playing rewards given to the players.

A lot of folks don't really award bonuses for role playing. I myself have devised ways to circumvent the whole issue. Isn't this strange? Just as a point of discussion - Why is it that we don't really place much emphasis on rewarding role playing when this concept is the very nature of the game, I mean they are called Roleplaying Games, right? I don't mean to be provocative, but I'm really curious, why this is ? (And yes, I do realize that roleplaying is it's own reward )

And Technomancer, my players really dig your system - man, I have a feeling there will be more vodka and chips consumed at the table from now on, all for the sake of their characters, you understand

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RJust as a point of discussion - Why is it that we don't really place much emphasis on rewarding role playing when this concept is the very nature of the game, I mean they are called Roleplaying Games, right? I don't mean to be provocative, but I'm really curious, why this is ? (And yes, I do realize that roleplaying is it's own reward )

Provocative maybe, but still a good question. I suspect it was just one of those things that didn't get thought about that much because people were so damn busy trying to get the easy stuff right. They were busy trying to walk before worrying about running, just trying to get the numbers for stats, weapons, and monsters to work in a consistant and easy manner without turning things into a Monty Haul or a Death Trap.

They either didn't even talk about roleplaying, player coaching, or story development much. Just gave advice mostly amounted to "meh, XP i guess" and "just wing it or something, or have some stuff written down that'll happen". But as game knowledge has developed people have started to try figure out the softer parts of the system and design it purposely to engineer for better potential fun.

Even just my suggestion I gave is a foreign idea to a lot of gamers, and admittedly I'm not even wording that in a particularly fleshed out, general use, and easily to apply form.

Perhaps 4e D&D will even encorporate some of this, although draw for brand recognition and the safety of legacy might hold them back some. However others are, and will be, pushing the evelope over the next while distilling some deep think about the subject of fun and enjoyment into actual mechanics for story direction and coaching roleplaying. Having theory put into practical application.

So it's been a long time coming, and some people have instinctively figured it out already, but it is a-coming in an explicitly described way.

Quote from: Xavier LangI stopped giving out RP awards individually after it came to my attention that someone can be roleplaying there character correctly and well by not doing anything that would bring them to your attention.  

Not all characters crave the limelight and sometimes players feel like they dominated one campaign too much so they play someone in the next who does the opposite for a while to give someone else the stage.  

The key here is to reward roleplaying in the sense of "who portrayed their character the most effectively" as opposed to "who was the most showy/spectacular in the gaming". I can recall many occasions where the player who had the most "limelight" was not the one who got the XP award.

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