As stated by EOTB:

Quote from: EOTB;1097513From a cold hard marketing standpoint, I don't think there's much benefit to other games trying to use the OSR label when 99% of the consumers buying based on it will be surprised if what they bought isn't for D&D.

Abstract "other games deserve..." aside, if the word "umptyfratz" is associated with circular saws, it doesn't do me any good to use it to market table saws.

This is totally true, so, from a marketing point of view, do we need a "movement" label, acronym, whatchamacallit?

If so, may I suggest Old School Gaming?

Logos by me, released under public domain.[ATTACH=CONFIG]3651[/ATTACH]

What do you think?

What do the D100 retros call themselves? Or the OpenD6 games? Or the Fantasy Trip retro?

AKA, how are they listed for purchase on DriveThruRPG?

And what other old games need to get a retro who don't have one already?

Please (insert your deity here) no.

We have enough game theft as is thanks to the OSR.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1097555What do the D100 retros call themselves? Or the OpenD6 games? Or the Fantasy Trip retro?

AKA, how are they listed for purchase on DriveThruRPG?

And what other old games need to get a retro who don't have one already?

Under their own ruleset as in D100, D6, etc. Can't find a single non-D&D based game in the OSR section.

Quote from: Omega;1097559Please (insert your deity here) no.

We have enough game theft as is thanks to the OSR.

Game theft?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097562Under their own ruleset as in D100, D6, etc. Can't find a single non-D&D based game in the OSR section.

Is that a bad thing?

What forgotten game do you think needs a retroclone? I'm unsure if there's any forgotten systems left to clone!! Maybe settings to copy, but the retro-clone-craze went hogwild with old systems.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1097572Is that a bad thing?

What forgotten game do you think needs a retroclone? I'm unsure if there's any forgotten systems left to clone!! Maybe settings to copy, but the retro-clone-craze went hogwild with old systems.

Who said it was a bad thing? You asked I gave you an answer.

Not that I think game X needs a retroclone, I'm asking because it's true that as a "brand" OSR is heavily associated with D&D, so from a marketing point of view do we need/want another "brand"?

That's all.

I this as long as the term has 'Old School' in it, then I'm good with that.

However I'm sure the label OSR doesn't need to pertain to D&D OSR, but with games of the pre-1990 era that had similar principles.

Theoretically a Tunnels & Trolls retroclone would be OSR, or a Fantasy Trip retroclone, etc

There is a MERP retroclone called 'Against The Dark Master', which surely would fall under an OSR umbrella

There are entirely new game systems that have the same principles as old-school rpgs, so are these OSR?

Stuff like 'Sharp Swords & Sorcerous Spells' for instance.

Or 'Mothership'?

Hard to say what OSR actually is if the authors come up with new mechanics, but say that their game has an OSR vibe, so therefore it is OSR

Kinda blows away the definitions we have been using...

As an example, here is Ben Milton reviewing 'Mothership' on his Questing Beast channel.

As a reviewer and author, his name is often associated with the OSR, so I guess he is pretty comfortable with it.

He identifies 'Mothership' as OSR, yet it doesn't have  TSR D&D-like mechanics, nor does it have a setting similar to the implied setting of D&D.

And yet this product is identified as OSR, so this is pretty interesting...

https://youtu.be/0FewzwxZWs0

Quote from: Mankcam;1097580I this as long as the term has 'Old School' in it, then I'm good with that.

However I'm sure the label OSR doesn't need to pertain to D&D OSR, but with games of the pre-1990 era that had similar principles.

Theoretically a Tunnels & Trolls retroclone would be OSR, or a Fantasy Trip retroclone, etc

There is a MERP retroclone called 'Against The Dark Master', which surely would fall under an OSR umbrella

There are entirely new game systems that have the same principles as old-school rpgs, so are these OSR?

Stuff like 'Sharp Swords & Sorcerous Spells' for instance.

Or 'Mothership'?

Hard to say what OSR actually is if the authors come up with new mechanics, but say that their game has an OSR vibe, so therefore it is OSR

Kinda blows away the definitions we have been using...

I have always been in the camp of anything pre 1990 is OSR, And regarding SS&SS it's based of off TBH (If not mistaken) I would say that if it has an OSR feel it should be considered as such. But the question goes more from a marketing point of view than my opinion.

Quote from: Omega;1097559Please (insert your deity here) no.

We have enough game theft as is thanks to the OSR.

I have used nothing but what Wizards of the Coast has freely provided as open content.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097552If so, may I suggest Old School Gaming?

Logos by me, released under public domain.

What do you think?

Cool logo but what does this tell a person who looking for Traveller material versus Runequest material? (or any other old school RPG?). That was always the rub for an ecumencial old school branding especially since if using OGL open content you can't cite compatibility with specific trademarks.

Traveller has made the leap to an OSR like environment with Cepheus. It took a fuckup to make it happen but now it has people are learning that Cepheus means Traveller or more specifically non-Third Imperium Traveller. In the same way OSR means classic D&D mechanics.

Runequest has not made the same leap. Instead we have specific brands like Mythras, and Openquest. And not all of it based around the open content of Legends. Mythras uses a 3PP model like Savage Worlds.

Largely because Chaosium was successful retaining it leadership in the niche with Mythras a strong second.

I always figured that anything pre-1985 could be fodder for OSR stuff, but you don't see much(if any) of the non-D&D stuff because people just don't care enough. But they theoretically could. Otherwise, the name seems a bit of a misnomer to me. D&D is oldschool, but it's not all of oldschool. There's a lot there even in just the first decade, again if you care enough to look for it/crib from it.

Much of the OSR gained momentum, as I recall it, becasue WotC wouldn't release earlier versions of D&D. Now they have put out PDFs of most of the older versions and so the need to clone them has diminished a lot. Also, D&D could be "cloned" because of the open SRD that Wizards of the Coast released. Other games couldn't really be cloned unless they also have an SRD. (I'm pretty sure that Mongoose had one for Traveller and there may be a few others.)

Now, as to the OP's marketing idea -- it's a valid one in concept but weak in practice, I think. Saying that OSR is D&D and we need an "everything else" sounds good but much of the point of the OSR was creating products which could be used with older D&D editions. You would almost need to have one brand for each game line to be marketed, like OST (Traveller) or OSGW (Gamma World) or whatever. That way a consumer would know what you are trying to sell to them.

Quote from: finarvyn;1097642Now, as to the OP's marketing idea -- it's a valid one in concept but weak in practice, I think. Saying that OSR is D&D and we need an "everything else" sounds good but much of the point of the OSR was creating products which could be used with older D&D editions. You would almost need to have one brand for each game line to be marketed, like OST (Traveller) or OSGW (Gamma World) or whatever. That way a consumer would know what you are trying to sell to them.

Along with this there exist a group of hobbyists interested in playing, publishing, and promoting classic editions of D&D. Along with Traveller, Gamma World and other older RPGs. Each form a distinct group even after considering shifting interest and overlaps.

It not about tribalism but the practical things one has to do to run a classic D&D campaign versus a Classic Traveller campaign, or a classic Gamma World campaign. Or to share or publish material for any of these.

What happens is that people tend to focus on one or two of these as that is all they have time for.