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Author Topic: DIY 5.5e of DyD  (Read 4541 times)

insubordinate polyhedral

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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2020, 11:52:27 AM »
While we're talking about franken-5e, one of the things that made me dislike 5e and go back to 1e/OSR is the same-y ness feel in actual play. Along with a pretty strong sense of bowling with bumpers/defanged risk. Did anyone else get that sense from play, and if so, any ideas on where it comes from? It's been a couple years since I played 5e now, so I'm not super fresh on the mechanics to try to analyze it.

Tom Kalbfus
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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2020, 12:07:11 PM »
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1136463
That's fine, and I even agree with you to a certain extent despite 3.5 being my least favorite edition of D&D ever.  But in the alternate timeline where 4E and 5E aren't produced, the net effect is that I don't need WotC D&D at all.  I've still got the Rules Compendium and other games.  Also, 3.5 was pretty much the poster child of "change for change's sake".  So it seems a strange place to draw the line on that principle.  

Of course, if they keep injecting politics into it, then it's also almost the same effect for me as the alternate timeline:   I stop buying WotC stuff.  The only difference is that my 3E and 5E books are sitting on the shelf when I want to run them.  One of the reasons I'm running 5E right now is that players can get the PHB easy.  When that is no longer true, I'm more likely to run something else.

There is a site where you can obtain PDFs of the 3.5 core rulebooks, I am not allowed to link to them, but you could Google "The Trove" the search engine could find you some out of print PDFs of various editions of D&D and other rpgs. I also bought a few copies of the core rules when Wizards reprinted its various edition, and of course you could also buy used D&D books on Amazon as well. Core rulebooks cost $50 per book and their hard cover adventures are almost as expensive as the core rulebooks. I have the 5th edition core rulebooks, I used to have the 4th edition rulebooks as well, but I gave those away, the 4th edition was too complicated, I suppose a computer could handle the overhead in an rpg game, but for pen and paper, there was just too much to keep track of, and each character class took up an entire chapter in the book, and the list of spells and magic items were incomplete and I have to buy further supplements to get back the functionality of 3.5. The 4th edition was a huge disappointment, and they spread things out over multiple books that should have been in one book, because I suppose they wanted you to buy more books!

As it is with 5th edition, you need about $150 to buy all three core rulebooks. You can get the third edition a lot cheaper than that.

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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2020, 03:40:54 PM »
Quote from: VisionStorm;1136395
This is something else I wanted to touch on just to say I strongly agree. I hate the way that rest and health recovery is handled in 5e and would like to go back to something closer to old D&D as the default. The way 5e handles it is just absurd. It's practically like a cartoon--injured characters can just go away, rest up then come back the next day right as new. There's NO genre where that makes sense, other than goofy, inconsequential cartoon land.

It's only absurd if you think Hit Points are mostly meat.

But even Gary didn't think that. He described them as a mix of stamina, skill, luck, morale and even divine protection with only a small portion being anything more than superficial injuries.

Under that understanding a good night's sleep restoring your stamina, focus and morale (plus luck and divine protection) along with some of your superficial injuries (you only get half your hit dice back so if you got knocked around a lot you'll actually need a couple days to fully recover) isn't absurd at all.

But I've already fought this battle and far too many just can't get past Hit Points = Meat. Which is why I had to drop hit points entirely from own game system and replace it with Edge that is spent to avoid serious injuries while serious injuries are handled by the affliction system (which also covers diseases and curses) that require days or even weeks (or ritual magic) to recover from and can even get worse if not treated.

Mechanically it's just Gary's version of hit points and some extra critical damage rules, but certain words in D&D have just become so loaded that trying to use them in any other way is more trouble than it's worth. My playtesters who felt regaining your full hit points with a long rest was unrealistic had no issues with regaining all spent Edge with a long rest.

Spinachcat

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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2020, 03:56:03 PM »
I highly agree on the need for "modularity" and dials to customize campaigns.
A successful 5.5e would invite more GM creativity and support the idea that every table can make the game what they want it to be.
Anselyn is quite right that Session Zero needs to be discussed upfront in the PHB.

Theater of the Mind, Abstract Minis and Tactical Minis play would all need support.
Random, Easy Template and Fiddly Build chargen also would need support.
The question would be how much of that should be at launch vs. a major supplement.

Geeky is right. The time is now, but we need someone with $250k to throw down.

13th Age could have been a mega-hit. They had an 18 month empty window between the death of 4e and the birth of 5e. It was an amazing opportunity. Palladium Fantasy could have resurged like a monster during that year and half. It was literally a perfect window. Instead, nobody marketed their products in any meaningful manner. Facebook was at its height.

The 5.5e would need to be a good game, backed by an intriguing and fun kitchen sink setting. All of it would need a metric ton of gorgeous art. Let's not forget that Paizo blasted out of the gate with A grade beautiful art (and lots of boobies). The writing, editing, art, layout isn't cheap, but far beyond that, you would need a monster marketing campaign. The company would have to host its own livestream and make it better than Critical Role (aka, get talented improv actors, great set, video editor, etc). None of that is cheap.

If you're just making a 5.5e on a budget, then you'll join the rest of the PDFs on DriveThru making beer money.

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2020, 05:01:32 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1136540
I highly agree on the need for "modularity" and dials to customize campaigns.
A successful 5.5e would invite more GM creativity and support the idea that every table can make the game what they want it to be.
Anselyn is quite right that Session Zero needs to be discussed upfront in the PHB.

Theater of the Mind, Abstract Minis and Tactical Minis play would all need support.
Random, Easy Template and Fiddly Build chargen also would need support.
The question would be how much of that should be at launch vs. a major supplement.

Geeky is right. The time is now, but we need someone with $250k to throw down.

13th Age could have been a mega-hit. They had an 18 month empty window between the death of 4e and the birth of 5e. It was an amazing opportunity. Palladium Fantasy could have resurged like a monster during that year and half. It was literally a perfect window. Instead, nobody marketed their products in any meaningful manner. Facebook was at its height.

The 5.5e would need to be a good game, backed by an intriguing and fun kitchen sink setting. All of it would need a metric ton of gorgeous art. Let's not forget that Paizo blasted out of the gate with A grade beautiful art (and lots of boobies). The writing, editing, art, layout isn't cheap, but far beyond that, you would need a monster marketing campaign. The company would have to host its own livestream and make it better than Critical Role (aka, get talented improv actors, great set, video editor, etc). None of that is cheap.

If you're just making a 5.5e on a budget, then you'll join the rest of the PDFs on DriveThru making beer money.

Or we need many someone's with either money, talent and or time to contribute, I bet we could find an artist or two to contribute for a slice of the pie. And several designers are already on this site, the less experienced/talented can contribute with either money or leg work, doing the research, maybe the layout, proofreading, etc.

So, instead of a fat cow with 250K you need 10 fit cows with 25k each, minus whatever money can be saved by people volunteering to do the work in exchange for a slice of the pie.

Put Pundit, Estar, and all the others with some notches in their belt to lead and find the people willing to contribute for said slice of the pie.

As for marketing... Just by putting Pundit's name on the cover you've got tons of free advertising, how many of you would be willing to do some advertising in exchange for a reduced price on the game?

As for actors... Not sure I really like the idea, it could work but I still don't like the idea.
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VisionStorm

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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2020, 05:12:38 PM »
Quote from: Chris24601;1136537
It's only absurd if you think Hit Points are mostly meat.

But even Gary didn't think that. He described them as a mix of stamina, skill, luck, morale and even divine protection with only a small portion being anything more than superficial injuries.

Under that understanding a good night's sleep restoring your stamina, focus and morale (plus luck and divine protection) along with some of your superficial injuries (you only get half your hit dice back so if you got knocked around a lot you'll actually need a couple days to fully recover) isn't absurd at all.


No, it's absurd even if you do take the conceit that HP aren't really "meat", but magic pixie stamina points mixed with "luck" and all that nonsense they used to explain what HP supposedly represent in old D&D, which is a notion I'm perfectly aware of. But that still doesn't take actual wounds or injuries into account, which are a real thing that happens in combat, or the fact that even if you take stamina alone into consideration that still doesn't just recover completely overnight if you engage in actual heavy exertion like you would in combat.

Heavy exercise and exertion can leave your muscles sore and barely able to walk or move effectively for days or even a whole week. Yet one single 8 hour Long Rest in 5e restores full "magic pixie stamina + luck points", plus half your HD worth of spent HD (assuming you even spent all of them), which means you only need two days tops to fully recover, even if you abused Short Rests and spent every single HD you had.

Quote from: Chris24601;1136537
But I've already fought this battle and far too many just can't get past Hit Points = Meat. Which is why I had to drop hit points entirely from own game system and replace it with Edge that is spent to avoid serious injuries while serious injuries are handled by the affliction system (which also covers diseases and curses) that require days or even weeks (or ritual magic) to recover from and can even get worse if not treated.

Mechanically it's just Gary's version of hit points and some extra critical damage rules, but certain words in D&D have just become so loaded that trying to use them in any other way is more trouble than it's worth. My playtesters who felt regaining your full hit points with a long rest was unrealistic had no issues with regaining all spent Edge with a long rest.


The fact that you had to develop a secondary rule to handle actual injuries only reinforces how ridiculous regarding HP only as "magic pixie stamina + luck points" actually is. And unlike your system, 5e doesn't have any rules for serious injuries. So there's nothing else to represent "meat" or actual injuries in the game. You can't even get killed outright unless you suffer negative HP equal to your full HP. And if you regain just ONE HP you're back on business, no matter how far back in negative HP you got. No lasting injuries!

HP = Stamina doesn't really work unless there's some sort of Wound system in place to handle real injuries.

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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2020, 05:27:10 PM »
Quote from: VisionStorm;1136559
HP = Stamina doesn't really work unless there's some sort of Wound system in place to handle real injuries.

5e has the Exhaustion track for stuff like that, it's very handy to say "this NPC you rescued has like 4 levels of Exhaustion, no they can't help you!"

As for Long Rests, I never liked the heal-overnight; I went over to 1 week LRs and that solved all balance & credulity issues. 1 week is enough for sore muscles & minor injuries to heal. Of course the bounce-back-from-Dying is still silly but I don't see an easy fix there. I tried using negative hp but now I just accept it as a gamey abstraction. If I want realism I play 1e AD&D or D6 System! :D

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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2020, 06:17:25 PM »
4e's Gamma World said fuck it and you fully heal with a short rest. No more worrying about encounter balance. If you win, you heal up totally to face the next challenge toe to toe. If you lose, you die.

Blankman

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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2020, 07:00:09 PM »
Quote from: VisionStorm;1136559
No, it's absurd even if you do take the conceit that HP aren't really "meat", but magic pixie stamina points mixed with "luck" and all that nonsense they used to explain what HP supposedly represent in old D&D, which is a notion I'm perfectly aware of. But that still doesn't take actual wounds or injuries into account, which are a real thing that happens in combat, or the fact that even if you take stamina alone into consideration that still doesn't just recover completely overnight if you engage in actual heavy exertion like you would in combat.

Heavy exercise and exertion can leave your muscles sore and barely able to walk or move effectively for days or even a whole week. Yet one single 8 hour Long Rest in 5e restores full "magic pixie stamina + luck points", plus half your HD worth of spent HD (assuming you even spent all of them), which means you only need two days tops to fully recover, even if you abused Short Rests and spent every single HD you had.



The fact that you had to develop a secondary rule to handle actual injuries only reinforces how ridiculous regarding HP only as "magic pixie stamina + luck points" actually is. And unlike your system, 5e doesn't have any rules for serious injuries. So there's nothing else to represent "meat" or actual injuries in the game. You can't even get killed outright unless you suffer negative HP equal to your full HP. And if you regain just ONE HP you're back on business, no matter how far back in negative HP you got. No lasting injuries!

HP = Stamina doesn't really work unless there's some sort of Wound system in place to handle real injuries.

It does have those rules actually. It also has suggestions for changing the duration of rests, the examples given are 5 minute short rests and 1 hour long rests for fast paced heroic play, and 8 hour short rests and 7 day long rests for gritty realism. All these options, and many more, are presented in the DMG.

Anselyn

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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2020, 07:23:14 PM »
Quote from: S'mon;1136562
Of course the bounce-back-from-Dying is still silly but I don't see an easy fix there. I tried using negative hp but now I just accept it as a gamey abstraction.
I've seen the suggestion that the bounce-back gives a level of exhaustion. What do you think?

VisionStorm

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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2020, 08:01:30 PM »
Quote from: S'mon;1136562
5e has the Exhaustion track for stuff like that, it's very handy to say "this NPC you rescued has like 4 levels of Exhaustion, no they can't help you!"

As for Long Rests, I never liked the heal-overnight; I went over to 1 week LRs and that solved all balance & credulity issues. 1 week is enough for sore muscles & minor injuries to heal. Of course the bounce-back-from-Dying is still silly but I don't see an easy fix there. I tried using negative hp but now I just accept it as a gamey abstraction. If I want realism I play 1e AD&D or D6 System! :D


That isn't specifically what Exhaustion rules are for. Though, suppose you could take the existing rules for Exhaustion and modify them to create a separate "Wounded" condition, that works mechanically almost identical to Exhaustion levels (same penalties), but deal with physical injuries instead. Every time you get to 0 HP you automatically suffer one Wound level, and every time you get struck by a critical hit or suffer 25+ damage from a single attack you need to make a 15 (+1 per 10 damage?) DC Con save or suffer a wound level as well. Recovery from Wounds levels take one week of rest (as opposed to one 8 hour Long Rest, as with Exhaustion levels), or 20 (or more?) HP worth of magical healing specifically devoted to Wounds (no actual HP healed) per level.

I might also consider extending a "Long Rest" to a full week as well. Though, a wound system like that in the standard default rules could shut me up about HP = Stamina.

I've always used negative HP since the 90s (think I got the rules from Dragon or a supplement, probably both). But those rules went just up to -10 for comatose, higher for death. 5e went all the way to your max HP, which is too much. Now if your character has 100 HP you can go up to -100 before kicking the bucket. And there's always raise dead for occasions like that. Higher level character just can't die anymore.

Quote from: Blankman;1136576
It does have those rules actually. It also has suggestions for changing the duration of rests, the examples given are 5 minute short rests and 1 hour long rests for fast paced heroic play, and 8 hour short rests and 7 day long rests for gritty realism. All these options, and many more, are presented in the DMG.


I think I saw something like that in the optional rules section. But that's stashed away in the DMG, and we were talking default rules originally. IMO, full recovery in one day doesn't feel heroic, it feels like a video game or cartoon.

Chris24601

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« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2020, 08:16:58 PM »
Quote from: VisionStorm;1136559
No, it's absurd even if you do take the conceit that HP aren't really "meat", but magic pixie stamina points mixed with "luck" and all that nonsense they used to explain what HP supposedly represent in old D&D, which is a notion I'm perfectly aware of. But that still doesn't take actual wounds or injuries into account, which are a real thing that happens in combat, or the fact that even if you take stamina alone into consideration that still doesn't just recover completely overnight if you engage in actual heavy exertion like you would in combat.

I'll be sure to tell Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas that they should have taken more wounds while getting their magic pixie stamina points whittled away while they fought all those orcs and trolls and what have you. Also that they needed at least a week of bedrest after that fight at the end of Fellowship before they'd be able to pursue the orcs who made off with Merry and Pippin because they couldn't possibly be able to pursue them over land and gain ground on them after all that previous exertion.

Because that's what Hit Points ultimately are; Plot Armor. The Troll's club would realistically crush anyone if it actually connected, but Aragorn has the skill and luck to evade those blows, though it does tire him out a bit in the process (i.e. his hit points are reduced). They get dropped to zero hit points and its either they're just knocked out of a minute then get up and keep going (they stabilize and spend some hit dice) or they're Boromir and have bled out (they fail to stabilize and die).

Also, for the record... my wound system is optional for those who want a grittier game. Default is you lose a heroic surge; a resource that represents your deep reserves of stamina... used to rally, take extra actions, push yourself to the limit (i.e. bonuses to actions) and not die at 0 Edge... making it a tactical choice to save them for rallying and avoiding death or spending them on actions and powerful actions that might end fights quicker.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1136540
I highly agree on the need for "modularity" and dials to customize campaigns... Theater of the Mind, Abstract Minis and Tactical Minis play would all need support... Random, Easy Template and Fiddly Build chargen also would need support. The question would be how much of that should be at launch vs. a major supplement.

Geeky is right. The time is now, but we need someone with $250k to throw down.

I'm probably stuck making beer money (though I'm a tea-totaler so, Tea money?), but I do have a system just about ready to go (211k words; "How to GM" advice and some random world-building assistance tables is what's left to do) that's got a pretty high degree of modularity, can support theater of the mind, abstract and tactical minis, has options for simple  (including actual pre-gens if you don't even want to make simple choices) and fiddly builds and optional rules for random chargen and have done some artwork for it already (though it does need a ton more). It also plays a LOT like WotC-era D&D at the table despite the differences (which come up more in how you build characters vs. how you use them at the table; d20+mod vs. TN is d20+mod vs. TN regardless of what the actual mods and TNs are and how those are determined).

Default chargen is a pretty simple Pick Species, Pick Background (skills and non-combat boons), Pick Class (combat abilities and talents), Pick Equipment (for fast play you can pick a package). The species entries also have three sample PCs per species if all you want to do is grab something and go. A sidebar in the classes section covers what options to pick if all you want is a really simple "I hit it with my sword/spell" type character.

The current list of included optional rules are;
- Level 0 and Negative Level Characters (for those who want to play zero-to-hero games; default is TV action star to start that scales up to Blockbuster action star at high level)
- Attribute Point Buy and Random Attribute Assignment (default is an array)
- Random Species and Backgrounds (for those who want to randomly determine the circumstance into which you're born)
- Skill Points (for those who want greater skill detail than trained/untrained)
- Detailed Languages (for those who actually want a campaign with regional dialects and the ability to learn them).
- Retraining (for changing your character after the game starts)
- Incremental Advancement (breaking up the level based bonuses into smaller chunks)
- Broadened Abilities (improving max level characters by adding breadth instead of more power)
- Infinite Levels (adding more levels past the normal maximum)
- Rolling More or No Damage Dice (for those who want to roll buckets and those who just want to take the average)
- Alternate Measuring Methods (measuring tapes for actual distance and mapless theater of the mind; default is a grid)
- Faster Free Strikes (speed up play by changing them from a hit roll to a static effect; good if you want to make withdrawl more of a tactical choice instead of a gamble)
- Simple Measurement and Simple Bursts (just measuring diagonals as 1 pace; default is they count as 1.5 paces rounded down)
- Abstract Cover (for mapless/theater of the mind)
- Mapless Area Effects (roll dice to see how many enemies you can catch in your burst; roll twice, use best if you're willing to hit an adjacent ally to do it)
- Static Condition Modifiers (I use the roll twice, use best/worst for a number of modifiers because all the testing showed it was way more fun for the players; if you want static modifiers to the die rolls, this is how you do that instead).

It also has rules for running larger/mass battles, vehicle combat, building castles and acquiring and renting out farmland to support yourself and hire troops.

It's also got a pretty kickass kitchen sink default/implied setting (its the one with the various kingdoms, each with their own problems, I've mentioned in other threads), at least according to those who've read it.

But like you said... it would need some serious supporting money (the plan was to Kickstarter to pay for art, editing and production related expenses once I had the manuscript done to use as one of the rewards/proof-its-not-vaporware) to make it happen.

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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2020, 08:42:07 PM »
Quote from: Chris24601;1136591
I'm probably stuck making beer money (though I'm a tea-totaler so, Tea money?), but I do have a system just about ready to go


Are you doing a public playtest?

Have you done a blind playtest where you don't GM and someone else needs to figure out the game from just the rulebook? (these are pure agony and utterly vital).

You might be spiking that tea after a few rounds of feedback! Especially those wonderful players who barely read anything, then make assumptions and then make demands for changes based on their wrong assumptions that would be cleared up if they just read the damn chapter. Ah, good times! I'm gonna have some tequila just thinking about it!


Quote from: Chris24601;1136591
But like you said... it would need some serious supporting money (the plan was to Kickstarter to pay for art, editing and production related expenses once I had the manuscript done to use as one of the rewards/proof-its-not-vaporware) to make it happen.


If you haven't done so already, educate yourself on how to maximize your Kickstarter. There's tremendous amount of free material online about how to do Kickstarters right and how to max your dollars. It's not a "list it and they will buy" site. Plenty of pre-marketing is needed to ensure you meet your minimum needs, especially these days with so much competition.

That's the unfun part. Now you're going from the SHOW to the BUSINESS part of the industry. After the fun of designing systems and worlds, now its the grind of artist contracts, layout problems, printer problems (even if you use POD), and all the joys only watching your money vanish into advertising and marketing campaigns can bring.

If you have any hope of achieving any ROI, its going to be based on your game have unique bits, you identifying the niche of customers who are interested in those unique bits, you speaking loud and clear to them in a convincing marketing campaign and then delivering an outstanding product that is fun to read and maybe even fun to play. Even if that marketing campaign is just you pimping your game everywhere online. AKA, Zweihander minus the obnoxiousness.

Good luck and kick ass.

VisionStorm

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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2020, 08:58:57 PM »
Quote from: Chris24601;1136591
I'll be sure to tell Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas that they should have taken more wounds while getting their magic pixie stamina points whittled away while they fought all those orcs and trolls and what have you. Also that they needed at least a week of bedrest after that fight at the end of Fellowship before they'd be able to pursue the orcs who made off with Merry and Pippin because they couldn't possibly be able to pursue them over land and gain ground on them after all that previous exertion.

Because that's what Hit Points ultimately are; Plot Armor. The Troll's club would realistically crush anyone if it actually connected, but Aragorn has the skill and luck to evade those blows, though it does tire him out a bit in the process (i.e. his hit points are reduced). They get dropped to zero hit points and its either they're just knocked out of a minute then get up and keep going (they stabilize and spend some hit dice) or they're Boromir and have bled out (they fail to stabilize and die).

Also, for the record... my wound system is optional for those who want a grittier game. Default is you lose a heroic surge; a resource that represents your deep reserves of stamina... used to rally, take extra actions, push yourself to the limit (i.e. bonuses to actions) and not die at 0 Edge... making it a tactical choice to save them for rallying and avoiding death or spending them on actions and powerful actions that might end fights quicker.


Apples and oranges while ignoring half my post and focusing only your pet issue of defending HP interpreted as Stamina + Luck. TTRPGs aren't movies or books, they're simulated worlds, were details that often get omitted when telling a story specifically to entertain a passive audience matter more and become more relevant than artistic handwaving. You're still not addressing how characters even get injured in such a system without at least having wound mechanics in place. You're just waving it away and jumping at me because I attacked your sacred cow.

I already elaborated more anyway in my reply to S'mon regrading wound mechanics for 5e.

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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2020, 09:59:04 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1136597
Are you doing a public playtest?
Semi-public at this stage. Basically, I hand it out to anyone who promises they'll actually give me feedback. About a third actually do... but them's the breaks. I'm always looking for more who are willing to give feedback, just lemme know.

Quote
Have you done a blind playtest where you don't GM and someone else needs to figure out the game from just the rulebook? (these are pure agony and utterly vital).

You might be spiking that tea after a few rounds of feedback! Especially those wonderful players who barely read anything, then make assumptions and then make demands for changes based on their wrong assumptions that would be cleared up if they just read the damn chapter. Ah, good times! I'm gonna have some tequila just thinking about it!
Oh, I've done several rounds already. Those ones who barely read anything led to a whole series of revisions in the character building section and to the layout of the books in general (all the game play rules are now found before the character building section for example).

My favorite from the "does not read" category was the person who couldn't figure out how to determine their attributes because after reading the list describing the steps to create a character they jumped ahead to the chapter on player species and never went back to the page following the steps of character creation where it discussed attributes in detail. I literally re-wrote the attribute generation process into each species entry just so she couldn't miss it.

Another example was that I had to completely can my original rules for static situational modifiers after one playtest where, just to try it out for the sake of completeness, I decided to replace them with something akin to 5e's advantage/disadvantage (I HATED advantage/disadvantage at the time because I felt the modifiers weren't granular enough) for a session just to see how the players responded.

Not only did they like it better, static situational bonuses died that day when a player who rolled a 2 on their attack roll (when they needed an 8 or better on the die to succeed), but then was reminded the target was flat-footed. Previously this would have given them a +3 to the attack and so they would have still missed, but for this test it was a re-roll to use the best result. They got a natural 20.

There is no static bonus in the world that can replace the endorphin rush of what I came to think of as "save vs. failure" when you go from miserable failure to critical hit. That it was also super-easy to use when someone forgot about it (you didn't need to remember the old roll, just whether it succeeded or failed) was another huge bonus. That was absolutely NOT in my original plan, but it was so well received I had to implement it.

Honestly, at this point I'd say less than 20% of my original mechanics survived my rounds of play-testing. You might not even recognize the first iteration document as being the same game as the current version. Whole classes, species and backgrounds disappeared when they just proved to not be all that fun. One of the current jokes by people familiar with how it started is how the Sprites ended up EATING both the Giants and the Dragons (the giants had the most interesting backstory, the sprite's was the most boring and the dragon's original backstory was getting ever more problematic as the world-building took shape... currently all three exist as subspecies of the elemental-themed Eldritch species).

It's been an experience... that's for certain.