TheRPGSite

Like the tin says, Discord changed it's TOS and now will ban people for Off-Site "hateful" behaviour.

Before anyone says they can't possibly police us all, they don't need to, all it takes is a blue haired landwhale reporting you and kiss your online RPG game goodbye.

Just unplug from Twatter and Farcebook where the landwhales roam and you'll both avoid the gaze of those miserable wretches and put another dent in those cesspools' bottom lines. If enough people do it, they might even notice.

Also, don't invite anyone you haven't vetted elsewhere onto your private gaming channels... but that's just good practice anyway.

ETA: if you haven't already, just change/use a different profile name on each of the social media platforms so they can't link the accounts as easily.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 01, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Just unplug from Twatter and Farcebook where the landwhales roam and you'll both avoid the gaze of those miserable wretches and put another dent in those cesspools' bottom lines. If enough people do it, they might even notice.

Also, don't invite anyone you haven't vetted elsewhere onto your private gaming channels... but that's just good practice anyway.

So cut off from all social media because Discord and also somehow vet people before inviting them to your discord (how without social media?).

I've a better solution, dump Discord and migrate to https://www.guilded.gg/ (https://www.guilded.gg/)

If you think Twitter and Facebook = "all social media" then you've already lost and have conceded to giving money (adrev) to people who hate you.

Unplug from all of it... I use Gab instead of Twitter, the Brave browser and BraveSearch instead of Google, Rumble in place of YouTube, here instead of TBP... never even used Facebook to begin with. I research on and pay extra for things made in the USA (North America failing that, not China failing that).

I'll investigate sharedd.gg to see if it's actually pro-free speech and if it is, add it to my list.

Just make sure to build up your social credit score, citizen, and you'll be fine!

  Well...about gab....I went on there to see what was going on, and it looked like a shit show, with some "interesting" videos spammed.   

  Discord though...well it seems that whole social credit thing people had concerns over are filtering into gamer life.  I have used their chat for an online video game, but never anything past that, though the guys whose channel I am on do have a D&D game they run on there.   I wonder how long till one of them gets in trouble (most of the guys are people I barely know, and they are younger and like to pop out an edgy joke from time to time) and it comes to bite them.

Quote from: Pat on March 01, 2022, 05:21:20 PM
Just make sure to build up your social credit score, citizen, and you'll be fine!

  You beat me to the punch on that one.  Does seem a little ominous.  I am sure there will be a build your own call going out again...just no hosting on any of the mega giants that more or less own the various cloud computing networks.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 01, 2022, 04:41:53 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 01, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Just unplug from Twatter and Farcebook where the landwhales roam and you'll both avoid the gaze of those miserable wretches and put another dent in those cesspools' bottom lines. If enough people do it, they might even notice.

Also, don't invite anyone you haven't vetted elsewhere onto your private gaming channels... but that's just good practice anyway.

So cut off from all social media because Discord and also somehow vet people before inviting them to your discord (how without social media?).

I've a better solution, dump Discord and migrate to https://www.guilded.gg/ (https://www.guilded.gg/)

Or; In-Person Gaming, around a Real Table.

Quote from: Pat on March 01, 2022, 05:21:20 PM
Just make sure to build up your social credit score, citizen, and you'll be fine!

That won't be done, on my part.  Online life isn't essential.  I promise, we can live without it.

Quote from: Jam The MF on March 01, 2022, 05:57:27 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 01, 2022, 04:41:53 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 01, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Just unplug from Twatter and Farcebook where the landwhales roam and you'll both avoid the gaze of those miserable wretches and put another dent in those cesspools' bottom lines. If enough people do it, they might even notice.

Also, don't invite anyone you haven't vetted elsewhere onto your private gaming channels... but that's just good practice anyway.

So cut off from all social media because Discord and also somehow vet people before inviting them to your discord (how without social media?).

I've a better solution, dump Discord and migrate to https://www.guilded.gg/ (https://www.guilded.gg/)

Or; In-Person Gaming, around a Real Table.

That'll be easy for my current group: The DM is in the UK, 3 players in the USA (1 in Texas and the other two who knows where) and I'm in México.  :-\

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 01, 2022, 05:10:02 PM
If you think Twitter and Facebook = "all social media" then you've already lost and have conceded to giving money (adrev) to people who hate you.

Unplug from all of it... I use Gab instead of Twitter, the Brave browser and BraveSearch instead of Google, Rumble in place of YouTube, here instead of TBP... never even used Facebook to begin with. I research on and pay extra for things made in the USA (North America failing that, not China failing that).

I'll investigate sharedd.gg to see if it's actually pro-free speech and if it is, add it to my list.

If you think blue haired landwhales won't go fishing on those other places to find people to purge from Discord...

Quote from: Jam The MF on March 01, 2022, 06:00:53 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 01, 2022, 05:21:20 PM
Just make sure to build up your social credit score, citizen, and you'll be fine!

That won't be done, on my part.  Online life isn't essential.  I promise, we can live without it.

Don't worry, they're developing government controlled digital currency to better control you.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 01, 2022, 04:41:53 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 01, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Just unplug from Twatter and Farcebook where the landwhales roam and you'll both avoid the gaze of those miserable wretches and put another dent in those cesspools' bottom lines. If enough people do it, they might even notice.

Also, don't invite anyone you haven't vetted elsewhere onto your private gaming channels... but that's just good practice anyway.

So cut off from all social media because Discord and also somehow vet people before inviting them to your discord (how without social media?).

I've a better solution, dump Discord and migrate to https://www.guilded.gg/ (https://www.guilded.gg/)

Option 1: Get rid of Twitter and Facebook.

Option 2: Get rid of Discord.

Option 3:

Fix the fact Discord is quickly becoming the wold's primary source for malware? Nah. We haven't had a Great Leap Forward recently; lets carouse around the internet looking for justifications to ban people we don't like.

Discord is shit software that sucks up computer RAM like a Chrome browser. No loss.

This is as close as I get to social media, so I'm good.  No facebook account, no twitter, no Baidu, no personal website etc.   I loathe Discord because it just plain sucks. 

I also dislike VTTs because if I'm going to game it needs to just work without constantly freezing and I want to hang with friends and family and knock back a few adult beverages.

So just unplug, people, and you'll be happier....

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 01, 2022, 07:31:12 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on March 01, 2022, 06:00:53 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 01, 2022, 05:21:20 PM
Just make sure to build up your social credit score, citizen, and you'll be fine!

That won't be done, on my part.  Online life isn't essential.  I promise, we can live without it.

Don't worry, they're developing government controlled digital currency to better control you.

They already control the banks and the currency, they just need to tighten the net a bit to make sure nobody can ever possibly escape.

It's necessarily, because of terrorism or hate speech, or something. Trust the benevolent all-encompassing government!

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 01, 2022, 03:52:58 PM
Like the tin says, Discord changed it's TOS and now will ban people for Off-Site "hateful" behaviour.

Not if you're a Democrat though.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 01, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Just unplug from Twatter and Farcebook where the landwhales roam and you'll both avoid the gaze of those miserable wretches and put another dent in those cesspools' bottom lines. If enough people do it, they might even notice.

Never had a problem with Facebook. I use it primarily to organize game sessions. I have a number of friends and aquaintances who post political or social nonsense, but I just tune them out.

QuoteETA: if you haven't already, just change/use a different profile name on each of the social media platforms so they can't link the accounts as easily.

Yep. I reluctantly use Discord because my WoW guild uses it to organize events. I only ever use it for that purpose. Someone would have to do some digging to find my Discord ID, and I doubt it's worth the effort.

I can see how it might impact someone with more internet presence than me, but I also think that's where Discord will have the most pushback.

I've had my accounts deleted out of the blue twice now by FuckYouBook. Both times for "behavior" on accounts that I only used to play facebook games on and never once posted to anything. So it doesnt matter what you do or do not do. They can and probably will delete you for nothing at all.

Then a few months ago FuckYouTube did the same. With the same fake charges.

I see discord has gone full Patreon then.

Might as well switch to Slack then as it's far more useful for organization and doesn't require the BS requirements that Discord does....although it's owned by Salesforce so there is that.

Discord has been pulling this crap for years now. In January of last year there were several instances of Discord banning not only servers related to Trump, but banning the personal accounts of everyone who ever connected to those servers.

That should tell you everything you need to know about how reliable Discord is as a communications tool. They'll happily delete anyone and anything as soon as their masters deem it wrongthink.

Guilded has not been as bad, but their model is the same as Discord so the same problems apply. If you have a centralized company in charge of all this infrastructure, then they will eventually "go woke" and start doing the bidding of their masters. US government/Spy agencies are giving directives to all of these tech companies on what to do, who to ban, what speech to allow and what to disallow. There's nothing you can do about it unless you are running your own server.

The only long term legitimate option I know of is Element/Matrix protocol communications, because Matrix is a protocol and you can host your own server & run it with encryption. I run a gaming related community and I plan on pushing as many people as I can.

Discord already violates the GDPR by keeping a record of your IP address and phone number (if any) associated with your account even after deleting your account.

EDIT: I don't consider it too much of a big loss. I've unfortunately dealt with several poorly run discords. Like, one time I tried to be nothing but positive and still ended up getting banned from a server due to incredibly stupid reasons like "talking too much" and "making someone feel subjective unhappy feelings." Most of the servers I interact with aren't that bad, thank God.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 02, 2022, 03:20:20 PM
Discord already violates the GDPR by keeping a record of your IP address and phone number (if any) associated with your account even after deleting your account.

That's also a violation of CCPA.

It always astounds me how ignorant people are of what the GDPR and other similar laws actually do and require. If you think that it requires them to delete all of your data you're not only dead wrong, you fucking braindead, that kind of information is kept because many countries, provinces, and states require that data be preserved indefinitely for the purpose of providing it to law enforcement and if you're too stupid to understand that this means that the data can never ACTUALLY be deleted, then you're beyond help.

It's also laughable to see you getting up in arms because you can lose a throwaway meaningless account when you can just make another one that ISN'T linked to your various other social media shitposting aliases.

It's their service and platform, suck it up chumps.

lol and here I was talking shit only to experience my own technical difficulties - PERFECT

And apparently, it continues with each edit creating a new duplicate post?

Quote from: DefNotAnInsiderNopeNoWay on March 02, 2022, 05:14:41 PM
It always astounds me how ignorant people are of what the GDPR and other similar laws actually do and require. If you think that it requires them to delete all of your data you're not only dead wrong, you fucking braindead, that kind of information is kept because many countries, provinces, and states require that data be preserved indefinitely for the purpose of providing it to law enforcement and if you're too stupid to understand that this means that the data can never ACTUALLY be deleted, then you're beyond help.

It's also laughable to see you getting up in arms because you can lose a throwaway meaningless account when you can just make another one that ISN'T linked to your various other social media shitposting aliases.

It's their service and platform, suck it up chumps.

It's always fun watching folks who can't even understand how to use grammar accuse others of stupidity.

Quote from: Jam The MF on March 01, 2022, 05:57:27 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 01, 2022, 04:41:53 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 01, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Just unplug from Twatter and Farcebook where the landwhales roam and you'll both avoid the gaze of those miserable wretches and put another dent in those cesspools' bottom lines. If enough people do it, they might even notice.

Also, don't invite anyone you haven't vetted elsewhere onto your private gaming channels... but that's just good practice anyway.

So cut off from all social media because Discord and also somehow vet people before inviting them to your discord (how without social media?).

I've a better solution, dump Discord and migrate to https://www.guilded.gg/ (https://www.guilded.gg/)

Or; In-Person Gaming, around a Real Table.

Stop, already, you heretic... Interact with people in meatspace?  Are you crazy?

It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Who gets to define hateful content? Shall I regale you with tales of the SJW "mean girls" attitude towards using the concept of "hateful content" to harass and demean people?
We got plenty of examples to choose from.

It'd be nice if people didn't engage in dishonest content.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Is this intended as a parody? Because it's really strange, on multiple levels.

  Yeah that definition of "hateful content" seems to be a target that never, ever stops moving.  I mean, until just VERY recently big time arbiters of social justice had a definition of racism that only allowed white people to be guilty of it.   I am sure once everyone forgets whoopi making a whoopsie it will go back to being what they had there before. 

   Yesterdays definitions of mental conditions are todays hate speech.  Yesterday's common sense about who take a dump where or compete in what sports division is today's hateful content.

   

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 09:44:01 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Is this intended as a parody? Because it's really strange, on multiple levels.

It's just Mistwell engaging in his usual disingenuous virtue signalling. After all why engage in an honest debate of the topic.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2022, 03:16:55 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Who gets to define hateful content?

You know this answer. It's the private company paying for and operating the service you're using - in this case Discord. Just like it's Pundit here. There doesn't need to be some magical philosophical universal standard for good and evil to make these kinds of ordinary judgements - private companies make them for their services and always have and if people don't like it they've always been welcome to open their own service. And generally when they do, unsurprisingly they also use their own judgement to decide and it's often not too far off from everyone else's judgement. Because it's not really that fuzzy a line to spot anonymous troll on the internet being a dick to his peers for chuckles.

I mean, why is it people think the internet "isn't real life"? If people behaved like dicks to strangers in a restaurant they'd be kicked out of the restaurant but somehow because the setting is a forum like Discord those standards are bad?

Quote from: Abraxus on March 03, 2022, 11:34:11 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 09:44:01 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Is this intended as a parody? Because it's really strange, on multiple levels.

It's just Mistwell engaging in his usual disingenuous virtue signalling. After all why engage in an honest debate of the topic.

I always find this accusation hilarious when it's done here. WHO am I virtue signaling? Tell me? In this forum, it's YOU who is virtue signaling because in this forum it's YOUR VIEWS which are the common orthodoxy. Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there? There is no social justice crowd monitoring this site to look to see if I am behaving in a correct manner and then giving me my flowers if I tow some party line. I am a fucking island around here and there is no other end of any signal I send. You on the other hand have a horde of party faithful surrounding you. And it's me virtue signaling? Look around partner. These are your buddies.  You're the equivalent to the church lady tut tutting the misbehaving kids and getting knowing approving looks from the others around us, not me.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM
Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there?

I'm a fan of that.

The problem is, that's not what's happening. Framing what you're doing as puppies and rainbows, and implying (or flat-out saying) that anyone who opposes you is against puppies and rainbows, is a common rhetorical technique these days. But it's a dishonest one. Because this isn't nice vs. not nice. It's niceness redefined to include one political wing and exclude the other, and niceness used as a weapon to suppress free speech, support intolerance, and promote hate and bigotry. In other words, nice isn't nice at all. It's part of the continued corruption of our shared lexicon in a political and social war that's being waged in the fields of linguistics and propaganda.

It's also not about private companies doing what they want, because we had the president come out and directly state they will take action against companies that don't censor speech the administration finds politically inconvenient. We've had numerous Congressional hearings, where they've done the same. And it's not just direct and obvious coercion; we're living in the era of the social credit score, and there are innumerable softer ways that political agents use to coerce and compel conformance, from secret warrants to reinterpreting legal standards so they don't need any warrants, contracts and favors, and witchhunts and deplatforming. The idea that companies are making independent decisions is risible.

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 12:28:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM
Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there?

I'm a fan of that.

The problem is, that's not what's happening. Framing what you're doing as puppies and rainbows, and implying (or flat-out saying) that anyone who opposes you is against puppies and rainbows, is a common rhetorical technique these days. But it's a dishonest one. Because this isn't nice vs. not nice. It's niceness redefined to include one political wing and exclude the other, and niceness used as a weapon to suppress free speech, support intolerance, and promote hate and bigotry. In other words, nice isn't nice at all. It's part of the continued corruption of our shared lexicon in a political and social war that's being waged in the fields of linguistics and propaganda.

It's also not about private companies doing what they want, because we had the president come out and directly state they will take action against companies that don't censor speech the administration finds politically inconvenient. We've had numerous Congressional hearings, where they've done the same. And it's not just direct and obvious coercion; we're living in the era of the social credit score, and there are innumerable softer ways that political agents use to coerce and compel conformance, from secret warrants to reinterpreting legal standards so they don't need any warrants, contracts and favors, and witchhunts and deplatforming. The idea that companies are making independent decisions is risible.

Exactly.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, Discord literally banned tens of thousands of Trump supporters in December & January. This wasn't because they were "Trolls" or engaging in "Hateful behavior" it's because they were on the wrong team, and the right team told Discord, "Hey, there's 50-100k people who are using your service to communicate and organize peaceful political demonstrations. This is dangerous to our political goals, you must ban these people."

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 12:28:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM
Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there?

I'm a fan of that.

The problem is, that's not what's happening. Framing what you're doing as puppies and rainbows, and implying (or flat-out saying) that anyone who opposes you is against puppies and rainbows, is a common rhetorical technique these days.

And you spinning what I said as me talking about puppies and rainbows and flat-out saying I am telling everyone to behave like puppies and rainbows is a common rhetorical technique for this message board these days. You know damn well that's not what I said or meant, but you played that simplistic strawman to...virtue signal to your buddies here that you're on board with the orthodoxy here.

QuoteBut it's a dishonest one.

Hey kettle, knock it off.

QuoteIt's also not about private companies doing what they want, because we had the president come out and directly state they will take action against companies that don't censor speech the administration finds politically inconvenient.

That is 1) yet another strawman as that's not really what he said, and 2) not the topic we're discussing but a distraction. We are in fact discussing a private company - discord - in the context of gaming. No matter how much you want to make this some generalized political discussing, it's not. We have a forum for that, and this isn't it. Are you trying to piss Pundit off, again?

Quote from: Zelen on March 03, 2022, 01:00:07 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 12:28:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM
Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there?

I'm a fan of that.

The problem is, that's not what's happening. Framing what you're doing as puppies and rainbows, and implying (or flat-out saying) that anyone who opposes you is against puppies and rainbows, is a common rhetorical technique these days. But it's a dishonest one. Because this isn't nice vs. not nice. It's niceness redefined to include one political wing and exclude the other, and niceness used as a weapon to suppress free speech, support intolerance, and promote hate and bigotry. In other words, nice isn't nice at all. It's part of the continued corruption of our shared lexicon in a political and social war that's being waged in the fields of linguistics and propaganda.

It's also not about private companies doing what they want, because we had the president come out and directly state they will take action against companies that don't censor speech the administration finds politically inconvenient. We've had numerous Congressional hearings, where they've done the same. And it's not just direct and obvious coercion; we're living in the era of the social credit score, and there are innumerable softer ways that political agents use to coerce and compel conformance, from secret warrants to reinterpreting legal standards so they don't need any warrants, contracts and favors, and witchhunts and deplatforming. The idea that companies are making independent decisions is risible.

Exactly.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, Discord literally banned tens of thousands of Trump supporters in December & January. This wasn't because they were "Trolls" or engaging in "Hateful behavior"

They shut down The Donald sever two days after the capital riots because it's where all the capital rioter planners jumped to after they were kicked off Reddit. Most of those users had never really used discord before that date. It's not like the general population of discord was experiencing some political purge - no gamers were harmed in the action.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:52:40 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 12:28:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM
Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there?

I'm a fan of that.

The problem is, that's not what's happening. Framing what you're doing as puppies and rainbows, and implying (or flat-out saying) that anyone who opposes you is against puppies and rainbows, is a common rhetorical technique these days.

And you spinning what I said as me talking about puppies and rainbows and flat-out saying I am telling everyone to behave like puppies and rainbows is a common rhetorical technique for this message board these days. You know damn well that's not what I said or meant, but you played that simplistic strawman to...virtue signal to your buddies here that you're on board with the orthodoxy here.

You literally said "Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say 'How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet'" How is that not painting one side as nice, or puppies and rainbows, and the other side as dicks?

And me virtue signaling? That's a joke.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:52:40 PM

QuoteIt's also not about private companies doing what they want, because we had the president come out and directly state they will take action against companies that don't censor speech the administration finds politically inconvenient.

That is 1) yet another strawman as that's not really what he said, and 2) not the topic we're discussing but a distraction. We are in fact discussing a private company - discord - in the context of gaming. No matter how much you want to make this some generalized political discussing, it's not. We have a forum for that, and this isn't it. Are you trying to piss Pundit off, again?

You're the one who brought it up, with "It's the private company paying for and operating the service you're using", and now you're the one who wants the last word.

It's almost like you're trying to place the blame for what you did on someone else.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:57:54 PM
They shut down The Donald sever two days after the capital riots because it's where all the capital rioter planners jumped to after they were kicked off Reddit. Most of those users had never really used discord before that date. It's not like the general population of discord was experiencing some political purge - no gamers were harmed in the action.

This is a lie.
Discord was banning users in December.
Again, we see Mistwell just can't stop lying.

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 02:44:14 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:52:40 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 12:28:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM
Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there?

I'm a fan of that.

The problem is, that's not what's happening. Framing what you're doing as puppies and rainbows, and implying (or flat-out saying) that anyone who opposes you is against puppies and rainbows, is a common rhetorical technique these days.

And you spinning what I said as me talking about puppies and rainbows and flat-out saying I am telling everyone to behave like puppies and rainbows is a common rhetorical technique for this message board these days. You know damn well that's not what I said or meant, but you played that simplistic strawman to...virtue signal to your buddies here that you're on board with the orthodoxy here.

You literally said "Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say 'How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet'" How is that not painting one side as nice, or puppies and rainbows, and the other side as dicks?

Because it's not in any way doing that? Sounds like the comment went right over your head. I am saying THERE IS NOT A SOUL HERE WHO WOULD PAT ME ON THE BACK FOR SAYING THAT.  And there isn't. That doesn't make "my side" puppies and rainbows and "your side" as dicks. I am one of the people here for f's sake! I am saying IT'S NOT SIGNALLING MY VIRTUE TO ANYONE HERE FOR ME TO SAY THAT BECAUSE NOBODY HERE WOULD VIEW ME AS VIRTUOUS FOR SAYING THAT. How is that painting anything as puppies and rainbows? I don't even think you followed your own logic there.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:52:40 PM

QuoteIt's also not about private companies doing what they want, because we had the president come out and directly state they will take action against companies that don't censor speech the administration finds politically inconvenient.

That is 1) yet another strawman as that's not really what he said, and 2) not the topic we're discussing but a distraction. We are in fact discussing a private company - discord - in the context of gaming. No matter how much you want to make this some generalized political discussing, it's not. We have a forum for that, and this isn't it. Are you trying to piss Pundit off, again?

QuoteYou're the one who brought it up, with "It's the private company paying for and operating the service you're using", and now you're the one who wants the last word.

It's almost like you're trying to place the blame for what you did on someone else.

I did not in any way bring up President Biden or anyone aside from Discord - which was the topic. WTF are you talking about? Jesus dude, you've lost the thread. NOW I am going to bring up Biden - hey Joe, is that you posing as Pat? Cause you seem to be having a senior moment.

It is in fact a private company paying for and operating the service you're using. That has nothing to do with President Biden or anyone else.

You know, sometimes I think you get three steps ahead of yourself Pat. You assume I am talking about something i am not talking about, and then mentally you respond to that and then assume my response to that and jump to that response before you even figure out if we're even talking about the same thing to begin with.

Quote from: Zelen on March 03, 2022, 02:49:54 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:57:54 PM
They shut down The Donald sever two days after the capital riots because it's where all the capital rioter planners jumped to after they were kicked off Reddit. Most of those users had never really used discord before that date. It's not like the general population of discord was experiencing some political purge - no gamers were harmed in the action.

This is a lie.
Discord was banning users in December.
Again, we see Mistwell just can't stop lying.

Banning Users /= shutting down the service. No lie detected. I said, and I meant, they shut down The Donald server two days after the capital riots. That is 100% accurate.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 03:10:37 PM
Banning Users /= shutting down the service. No lie detected. I said, and I meant, they shut down The Donald server two days after the capital riots. That is 100% accurate.

This level of dishonesty deserves a medal.

No one ever mentioned "The Donald" server.
Discord was banning servers & all users on these servers merely for political affiliation, because that affiliation was for the "wrong" political team. There was no justification for doing so and many people were banned simply for clicking on an invite link.

This action was almost certainly at the behest of elements of the US national government who observed a mass of users mobilizing to coordinate a demonstration.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 11:59:34 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2022, 03:16:55 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Who gets to define hateful content?

You know this answer. It's the private company paying for and operating the service you're using - in this case Discord. Just like it's Pundit here. There doesn't need to be some magical philosophical universal standard for good and evil to make these kinds of ordinary judgements - private companies make them for their services and always have and if people don't like it they've always been welcome to open their own service. And generally when they do, unsurprisingly they also use their own judgement to decide and it's often not too far off from everyone else's judgement. Because it's not really that fuzzy a line to spot anonymous troll on the internet being a dick to his peers for chuckles.

And you know that companies are made up of people, and those people are influenced by other people. That's why Doritos puts rainbow flags on their cheap, unhealthy snacks to appeal to the oppressed OBGLITDLRD community. That's why Youtube will ban or demonitize a video because the creator said something "hateful" like there is such a thing as biological sex.
Punishing anoymous internet trolls is the justification. Using social media as a club to enforce ideological conformity is the goal.

QuoteI mean, why is it people think the internet "isn't real life"? If people behaved like dicks to strangers in a restaurant they'd be kicked out of the restaurant but somehow because the setting is a forum like Discord those standards are bad?

Because the internet isn't real life. You don't know my real life name, or what I look like, or where I am. I can post some random crazy garbage on one account, and reply to myself with another account. Sometimes this is really useful, like when an abused person can ask for help from a community with less risk of alerting their abuser. Sometimes it's annoying when a troll flings poo on a message board. Sometimes it's downright awful, like when a pack of SJWs harass a comic creator for not being woke enough.

Quote from: Zelen on March 03, 2022, 03:31:24 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 03:10:37 PM
Banning Users /= shutting down the service. No lie detected. I said, and I meant, they shut down The Donald server two days after the capital riots. That is 100% accurate.

This level of dishonesty deserves a medal.

No one ever mentioned "The Donald" server.

*I* mentioned The Donald server. By name, so there was no confusion.

QuoteDiscord was banning servers & all users on these servers merely for political affiliation

i don't know what "these severs" means. But no political affiliation was mentioned, nor were individual users shut down with the shut down of The Donald server, they just shut down the server.

If you want to talk about something other than The Donald sever shut down, be my guest. But stop calling me a liar for talking about The Donald server when that's what I was talking about and made that perfectly clear.

Quotebecause that affiliation was for the "wrong" political team.

The Donald server was shut down for all the Reddit people who previously had planned the capital riots coming over to The Donald server for further planning after they were kicked off of Reddit.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2022, 03:31:56 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 11:59:34 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2022, 03:16:55 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Who gets to define hateful content?

You know this answer. It's the private company paying for and operating the service you're using - in this case Discord. Just like it's Pundit here. There doesn't need to be some magical philosophical universal standard for good and evil to make these kinds of ordinary judgements - private companies make them for their services and always have and if people don't like it they've always been welcome to open their own service. And generally when they do, unsurprisingly they also use their own judgement to decide and it's often not too far off from everyone else's judgement. Because it's not really that fuzzy a line to spot anonymous troll on the internet being a dick to his peers for chuckles.

And you know that companies are made up of people, and those people are influenced by other people. That's why Doritos puts rainbow flags on their cheap, unhealthy snacks to appeal to the oppressed OBGLITDLRD community. That's why Youtube will ban or demonitize a video because the creator said something "hateful" like there is such a thing as biological sex.
Punishing anoymous internet trolls is the justification. Using social media as a club to enforce ideological conformity is the goal.

QuoteI mean, why is it people think the internet "isn't real life"? If people behaved like dicks to strangers in a restaurant they'd be kicked out of the restaurant but somehow because the setting is a forum like Discord those standards are bad?

Because the internet isn't real life. You don't know my real life name, or what I look like, or where I am. I can post some random crazy garbage on one account, and reply to myself with another account. Sometimes this is really useful, like when an abused person can ask for help from a community with less risk of alerting their abuser. Sometimes it's annoying when a troll flings poo on a message board. Sometimes it's downright awful, like when a pack of SJWs harass a comic creator for not being woke enough.

The internet is real life. I am a real person you're talking to, and you are a real person to me. It's a tad sociopathic to think because we're not standing in front of each other that somehow that makes this interaction not a real life human conversation. 

Also, some people here know my real name and life. Not everyone, and I don't publicize and ask that others don't as well, but I have direct friends who interact with me on message boards. And acquittances who I've gamed at for conventions and such. I'd game with you in fact at a con or something.

A restaurant doesn't know the real life name of the person they're kicking out for being a dick to other customers. They just see someone using their services to behave in a socially unacceptable manner and they kick them out.

And when discord sees someone behaving like an utter troll for shits and giggles, WHICH IS THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THEIR KICKS AND BANS, to act like the troll is "being oppressed" is as silly as it would be to act like the patron in the restaurant being kicked out for being a dick is oppression.

It shouldn't be this controversial for me to say how about people behave less like a dick to each other. But I realize that idea doesn't go over great on any message board forum, and doubly so for this particular forum which is patronized by so many people who have been banned from other forums. Often for behaving as I just described.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 03:08:39 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 02:44:14 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:52:40 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 12:28:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM
Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there?

I'm a fan of that.

The problem is, that's not what's happening. Framing what you're doing as puppies and rainbows, and implying (or flat-out saying) that anyone who opposes you is against puppies and rainbows, is a common rhetorical technique these days.

And you spinning what I said as me talking about puppies and rainbows and flat-out saying I am telling everyone to behave like puppies and rainbows is a common rhetorical technique for this message board these days. You know damn well that's not what I said or meant, but you played that simplistic strawman to...virtue signal to your buddies here that you're on board with the orthodoxy here.

You literally said "Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say 'How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet'" How is that not painting one side as nice, or puppies and rainbows, and the other side as dicks?

Because it's not in any way doing that? Sounds like the comment went right over your head. I am saying THERE IS NOT A SOUL HERE WHO WOULD PAT ME ON THE BACK FOR SAYING THAT.  And there isn't. That doesn't make "my side" puppies and rainbows and "your side" as dicks. I am one of the people here for f's sake! I am saying IT'S NOT SIGNALLING MY VIRTUE TO ANYONE HERE FOR ME TO SAY THAT BECAUSE NOBODY HERE WOULD VIEW ME AS VIRTUOUS FOR SAYING THAT. How is that painting anything as puppies and rainbows? I don't even think you followed your own logic there.

So you're saying that wasn't a reference to Discord policing off-site content with a disingenuous puppies & rainbow claim? That you were posting off topic material in the wrong forum?

Hmm.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 03:08:39 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:52:40 PM

QuoteIt's also not about private companies doing what they want, because we had the president come out and directly state they will take action against companies that don't censor speech the administration finds politically inconvenient.

That is 1) yet another strawman as that's not really what he said, and 2) not the topic we're discussing but a distraction. We are in fact discussing a private company - discord - in the context of gaming. No matter how much you want to make this some generalized political discussing, it's not. We have a forum for that, and this isn't it. Are you trying to piss Pundit off, again?

QuoteYou're the one who brought it up, with "It's the private company paying for and operating the service you're using", and now you're the one who wants the last word.

It's almost like you're trying to place the blame for what you did on someone else.

I did not in any way bring up President Biden or anyone aside from Discord - which was the topic. WTF are you talking about? Jesus dude, you've lost the thread. NOW I am going to bring up Biden - hey Joe, is that you posing as Pat? Cause you seem to be having a senior moment.

It is in fact a private company paying for and operating the service you're using. That has nothing to do with President Biden or anyone else.

You know, sometimes I think you get three steps ahead of yourself Pat. You assume I am talking about something i am not talking about, and then mentally you respond to that and then assume my response to that and jump to that response before you even figure out if we're even talking about the same thing to begin with.

You're not even trying to be rational, are you? You claimed it was a private company, and I pointed out private companies are coerced, and gave concrete examples. It still ties back to the original argument. You can't reasonably make the "private companies" claim because there is vast systemic pressure on them to comply.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 05:10:41 PM

The internet is real life. I am a real person you're talking to, and you are a real person to me. It's a tad sociopathic to think because we're not standing in front of each other that somehow that makes this interaction not a real life human conversation. 

They why don't you stop jumping into attack mode every time someone replies?

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 05:19:32 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 03:08:39 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 02:44:14 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:52:40 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 12:28:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM
Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there?

I'm a fan of that.

The problem is, that's not what's happening. Framing what you're doing as puppies and rainbows, and implying (or flat-out saying) that anyone who opposes you is against puppies and rainbows, is a common rhetorical technique these days.

And you spinning what I said as me talking about puppies and rainbows and flat-out saying I am telling everyone to behave like puppies and rainbows is a common rhetorical technique for this message board these days. You know damn well that's not what I said or meant, but you played that simplistic strawman to...virtue signal to your buddies here that you're on board with the orthodoxy here.

You literally said "Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say 'How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet'" How is that not painting one side as nice, or puppies and rainbows, and the other side as dicks?

Because it's not in any way doing that? Sounds like the comment went right over your head. I am saying THERE IS NOT A SOUL HERE WHO WOULD PAT ME ON THE BACK FOR SAYING THAT.  And there isn't. That doesn't make "my side" puppies and rainbows and "your side" as dicks. I am one of the people here for f's sake! I am saying IT'S NOT SIGNALLING MY VIRTUE TO ANYONE HERE FOR ME TO SAY THAT BECAUSE NOBODY HERE WOULD VIEW ME AS VIRTUOUS FOR SAYING THAT. How is that painting anything as puppies and rainbows? I don't even think you followed your own logic there.

So you're saying that wasn't a reference to Discord policing off-site content with a disingenuous puppies & rainbow claim? That you were posting off topic material in the wrong forum?

Hmm.

Yes, and you even asking that shows me you didn't follow the conversation. Abraxus said to me, "It's just Mistwell engaging in his usual disingenuous virtue signalling" to which I responded that was nonsense because who would I be signaling my virtue to here and then you jumped in.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 03:08:39 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:52:40 PM

QuoteIt's also not about private companies doing what they want, because we had the president come out and directly state they will take action against companies that don't censor speech the administration finds politically inconvenient.

That is 1) yet another strawman as that's not really what he said, and 2) not the topic we're discussing but a distraction. We are in fact discussing a private company - discord - in the context of gaming. No matter how much you want to make this some generalized political discussing, it's not. We have a forum for that, and this isn't it. Are you trying to piss Pundit off, again?

QuoteYou're the one who brought it up, with "It's the private company paying for and operating the service you're using", and now you're the one who wants the last word.

It's almost like you're trying to place the blame for what you did on someone else.

I did not in any way bring up President Biden or anyone aside from Discord - which was the topic. WTF are you talking about? Jesus dude, you've lost the thread. NOW I am going to bring up Biden - hey Joe, is that you posing as Pat? Cause you seem to be having a senior moment.

It is in fact a private company paying for and operating the service you're using. That has nothing to do with President Biden or anyone else.

You know, sometimes I think you get three steps ahead of yourself Pat. You assume I am talking about something i am not talking about, and then mentally you respond to that and then assume my response to that and jump to that response before you even figure out if we're even talking about the same thing to begin with.

You're not even trying to be rational, are you? You claimed it was a private company, and I pointed out private companies are coerced, and gave concrete examples. It still ties back to the original argument. You can't reasonably make the "private companies" claim because there is vast systemic pressure on them to comply.
[/quote]

Discord is not being coerced to have a hate content policy. Nobody in the Biden administration or otherwise has called Discord up to manufacture some scheme to go after GOP voters on their servers. Discord is just being Discord - this is how that company behaves. They are sick of trolls, they are sick of extremists using their servers for a bunch of non-gamer bullshit, they don't want to go down the way of 4chan, and they're creating policies which spells out their broad discretion to get rid of people who are there to make trouble.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 05:10:41 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2022, 03:31:56 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 11:59:34 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2022, 03:16:55 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Who gets to define hateful content?

You know this answer. It's the private company paying for and operating the service you're using - in this case Discord. Just like it's Pundit here. There doesn't need to be some magical philosophical universal standard for good and evil to make these kinds of ordinary judgements - private companies make them for their services and always have and if people don't like it they've always been welcome to open their own service. And generally when they do, unsurprisingly they also use their own judgement to decide and it's often not too far off from everyone else's judgement. Because it's not really that fuzzy a line to spot anonymous troll on the internet being a dick to his peers for chuckles.

And you know that companies are made up of people, and those people are influenced by other people. That's why Doritos puts rainbow flags on their cheap, unhealthy snacks to appeal to the oppressed OBGLITDLRD community. That's why Youtube will ban or demonitize a video because the creator said something "hateful" like there is such a thing as biological sex.
Punishing anoymous internet trolls is the justification. Using social media as a club to enforce ideological conformity is the goal.

QuoteI mean, why is it people think the internet "isn't real life"? If people behaved like dicks to strangers in a restaurant they'd be kicked out of the restaurant but somehow because the setting is a forum like Discord those standards are bad?

Because the internet isn't real life. You don't know my real life name, or what I look like, or where I am. I can post some random crazy garbage on one account, and reply to myself with another account. Sometimes this is really useful, like when an abused person can ask for help from a community with less risk of alerting their abuser. Sometimes it's annoying when a troll flings poo on a message board. Sometimes it's downright awful, like when a pack of SJWs harass a comic creator for not being woke enough.

The internet is real life. I am a real person you're talking to, and you are a real person to me. It's a tad sociopathic to think because we're not standing in front of each other that somehow that makes this interaction not a real life human conversation. 

You know what I mean. Online interactions have a layer of anonymity and pretense that makes it very different from face to face communication.

QuoteAlso, some people here know my real name and life. Not everyone, and I don't publicize and ask that others don't as well, but I have direct friends who interact with me on message boards. And acquittances who I've gamed at for conventions and such. I'd game with you in fact at a con or something.

A restaurant doesn't know the real life name of the person they're kicking out for being a dick to other customers. They just see someone using their services to behave in a socially unacceptable manner and they kick them out.

And when discord sees someone behaving like an utter troll for shits and giggles, WHICH IS THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THEIR KICKS AND BANS, to act like the troll is "being oppressed" is as silly as it would be to act like the patron in the restaurant being kicked out for being a dick is oppression.

It shouldn't be this controversial for me to say how about people behave less like a dick to each other. But I realize that idea doesn't go over great on any message board forum, and doubly so for this particular forum which is patronized by so many people who have been banned from other forums. Often for behaving as I just described.

The whole point of this thread is that Discord wants to ban people for off site behavior. They don't just want to police their own servers, they want to police individuals.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 05:03:48 PM

i don't know what "these severs" means. But no political affiliation was mentioned, nor were individual users shut down with the shut down of The Donald server, they just shut down the server.

If you want to talk about something other than The Donald sever shut down, be my guest. But stop calling me a liar for talking about The Donald server when that's what I was talking about and made that perfectly clear.

• I made a statement that Discord was shutting down servers & users in order to stifle political speech and suppress dissent
• You attempted to rebut this by claiming that "The Donald" server was only banned after the January 6 demonstration, implying that the banned users must have been "bad people"
• I correctly pointed out, this banning activity was occurring at least a month in advance of any demonstration

If your statement about The Donald server wasn't meant to rebut my prior statement, why did you bring it up? You're pretending now like this was some innocent non-sequitur. Do you often make interjections about irrelevant things?

It's extremely telling because you were clearly attempting to be misleading and yet you can't own up to it. Dishonest. A person operating in good faith would simply say, "Well, I wasn't aware of that, but I guess Discord can do some shady stuff." Instead you try to cover up a lie with another lie.

No thanks.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 05:27:21 PM
Discord is not being coerced to have a hate content policy. Nobody in the Biden administration or otherwise has called Discord up to manufacture some scheme to go after GOP voters on their servers. Discord is just being Discord - this is how that company behaves. They are sick of trolls, they are sick of extremists using their servers for a bunch of non-gamer bullshit, they don't want to go down the way of 4chan, and they're creating policies which spells out their broad discretion to get rid of people who are there to make trouble.

We have an incredibly long list of overt and covert examples of governmental coercion, pervasive and widespread evidence of indirect coercion, as well as simple common sense maxims like not biting the hand that feeds you or being polite and deferential around cops that tell us what happens when the government exerts great financial and regulatory power, and you're absolutely sure there's no coercion?

That seems to be a position that flies in the face of every available bit of evidence.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 05:27:21 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 05:19:32 PM
So you're saying that wasn't a reference to Discord policing off-site content with a disingenuous puppies & rainbow claim? That you were posting off topic material in the wrong forum?

Hmm.

Yes, and you even asking that shows me you didn't follow the conversation. Abraxus said to me, "It's just Mistwell engaging in his usual disingenuous virtue signalling" to which I responded that was nonsense because who would I be signaling my virtue to here and then you jumped in. trouble.

It would be really hard for me to miss that part of the conversation, because it was the first part of the same paragraph. But in the context of the sentence, it wasn't clear whether you were referring to that, or Discord. Go back and re-read it, if you care. But since you're claiming you meant it the other way, that pretty much ends this tangent.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM

Quote from: Abraxus on March 03, 2022, 11:34:11 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 09:44:01 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Is this intended as a parody? Because it's really strange, on multiple levels.

It's just Mistwell engaging in his usual disingenuous virtue signalling. After all why engage in an honest debate of the topic.

I always find this accusation hilarious when it's done here. WHO am I virtue signaling? Tell me? In this forum, it's YOU who is virtue signaling because in this forum it's YOUR VIEWS which are the common orthodoxy. Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there? There is no social justice crowd monitoring this site to look to see if I am behaving in a correct manner and then giving me my flowers if I tow some party line. I am a fucking island around here and there is no other end of any signal I send. You on the other hand have a horde of party faithful surrounding you. And it's me virtue signaling? Look around partner. These are your buddies.  You're the equivalent to the church lady tut tutting the misbehaving kids and getting knowing approving looks from the others around us, not me.

Greetings!

I am almost always friendly, courteous, and polite to most members here in discussions. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on March 03, 2022, 06:43:35 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 12:05:09 PM

Quote from: Abraxus on March 03, 2022, 11:34:11 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 03, 2022, 09:44:01 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
It would be nice if people didn't engage in hateful content? I mean, I'm just sayin? I know I know, one person's hateful content is another's engaging conversation. Except, somehow, 95%+ of people don't have that same difficulty not engaging in hateful content and it always seems to be the same small group of people who are ejected from almost everywhere else and who admit to being dicks to their peers on a regular basis for...reasons (like "it's fun to tweak the SJWs").

Is this intended as a parody? Because it's really strange, on multiple levels.

It's just Mistwell engaging in his usual disingenuous virtue signalling. After all why engage in an honest debate of the topic.

I always find this accusation hilarious when it's done here. WHO am I virtue signaling? Tell me? In this forum, it's YOU who is virtue signaling because in this forum it's YOUR VIEWS which are the common orthodoxy. Ain't a soul here that's going to pat me on the back for daring to say "How about we not be dicks to each other on the internet" now is there? There is no social justice crowd monitoring this site to look to see if I am behaving in a correct manner and then giving me my flowers if I tow some party line. I am a fucking island around here and there is no other end of any signal I send. You on the other hand have a horde of party faithful surrounding you. And it's me virtue signaling? Look around partner. These are your buddies.  You're the equivalent to the church lady tut tutting the misbehaving kids and getting knowing approving looks from the others around us, not me.

Greetings!

I am almost always friendly, courteous, and polite to most members here in discussions. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

But what about the cocksuckers, SHARK?  They are constantly under attack and all they want to do is to suck some cock and steal everyones money.

Jeez, people.  Stop trying to explain things to Mistwell on the basis of principles; it's a foreign concept to him.  He'll state at the beginning of the thread that private companies get to police what the people who use their services do, but ask him whether a bakery should be able to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding (or even refuse to bake for people who post things on Twitter the bakery owners don't like).  Bet you'll get spin ("there are laws... blah, blah, blah").  Because the first statement isn't a principle, it's just a post hoc rationalization to get him to the point he wants to argue.  Shakespeare was right about lawyers...

Quote from: Pat on March 02, 2022, 01:25:39 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 01, 2022, 07:31:12 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on March 01, 2022, 06:00:53 PM

Quote from: Pat on March 01, 2022, 05:21:20 PM
Just make sure to build up your social credit score, citizen, and you'll be fine!

That won't be done, on my part.  Online life isn't essential.  I promise, we can live without it.

Don't worry, they're developing government controlled digital currency to better control you.

They already control the banks and the currency, they just need to tighten the net a bit to make sure nobody can ever possibly escape.

It's necessarily, because of terrorism or hate speech, or something. Trust the benevolent all-encompassing government!

Well, the one reason I saw was "Think of the Children!".

It's in the UK, the currency would be programable, so you can give your child money but program it so he can't buy sweets.

Of course they also say both the government and your employer can programm it so YOU can't buy some stuff.

Add to that how easy would it be for them to guarantee dissenters die of hunger...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 03, 2022, 11:50:41 PM
Jeez, people.  Stop trying to explain things to Mistwell on the basis of principles; it's a foreign concept to him.  He'll state at the beginning of the thread that private companies get to police what the people who use their services do, but ask him whether a bakery should be able to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding (or even refuse to bake for people who post things on Twitter the bakery owners don't like).  Bet you'll get spin ("there are laws... blah, blah, blah").  Because the first statement isn't a principle, it's just a post hoc rationalization to get him to the point he wants to argue.  Shakespeare was right about lawyers...

That they are like bananas? There's not a single one that's not crooked?

If he was less of disingenuous virtue signalling SJW he would try to grasp the concept that outside of Discord they have no business tracking what I say or do as company.

Of course because Mistwell can't get free handjobs from similar virtue signallers he had to be his usual deluded self. It's pointless to engage and he can take his victim martyr act to someone who cares.

Be dishonest,  disingenuous poster who refuses to debate in good faith then expect to be treated accordingly going forward.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 04, 2022, 11:10:21 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 03, 2022, 11:50:41 PM
Jeez, people.  Stop trying to explain things to Mistwell on the basis of principles; it's a foreign concept to him.  He'll state at the beginning of the thread that private companies get to police what the people who use their services do, but ask him whether a bakery should be able to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding (or even refuse to bake for people who post things on Twitter the bakery owners don't like).  Bet you'll get spin ("there are laws... blah, blah, blah").  Because the first statement isn't a principle, it's just a post hoc rationalization to get him to the point he wants to argue.  Shakespeare was right about lawyers...

That they are like bananas? There's not a single one that's not crooked?

"First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." - Shakespere, Henry VI

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 04, 2022, 01:07:36 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 04, 2022, 11:10:21 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 03, 2022, 11:50:41 PM
Jeez, people.  Stop trying to explain things to Mistwell on the basis of principles; it's a foreign concept to him.  He'll state at the beginning of the thread that private companies get to police what the people who use their services do, but ask him whether a bakery should be able to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding (or even refuse to bake for people who post things on Twitter the bakery owners don't like).  Bet you'll get spin ("there are laws... blah, blah, blah").  Because the first statement isn't a principle, it's just a post hoc rationalization to get him to the point he wants to argue.  Shakespeare was right about lawyers...

That they are like bananas? There's not a single one that's not crooked?

"First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." - Shakespere, Henry VI

I know it's the classics but here in México we had to read Cervantes not Shakespeare in school.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 04, 2022, 01:33:30 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 04, 2022, 01:07:36 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 04, 2022, 11:10:21 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 03, 2022, 11:50:41 PM
Jeez, people.  Stop trying to explain things to Mistwell on the basis of principles; it's a foreign concept to him.  He'll state at the beginning of the thread that private companies get to police what the people who use their services do, but ask him whether a bakery should be able to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding (or even refuse to bake for people who post things on Twitter the bakery owners don't like).  Bet you'll get spin ("there are laws... blah, blah, blah").  Because the first statement isn't a principle, it's just a post hoc rationalization to get him to the point he wants to argue.  Shakespeare was right about lawyers...

That they are like bananas? There's not a single one that's not crooked?

"First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." - Shakespere, Henry VI

I know it's the classics but here in México we had to read Cervantes not Shakespeare in school.

This is not a bad thing. The broader your reading list, the better.  We as a western culture are becoming dumber.  Most people can't read past 50 pages. Many won't read anything without pictures (don't try to tell me it's a graphic novel - it's a fucking cartoon)...

Besides Guilded there's another alternative (in beta for now). It's FOSS and you can selfhost.

https://itsfoss.com/revolt/ (https://itsfoss.com/revolt/)

https://app.revolt.chat/login (https://app.revolt.chat/login)

Quote from: Zelen on March 03, 2022, 05:56:36 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 03, 2022, 05:03:48 PM

i don't know what "these severs" means. But no political affiliation was mentioned, nor were individual users shut down with the shut down of The Donald server, they just shut down the server.

If you want to talk about something other than The Donald sever shut down, be my guest. But stop calling me a liar for talking about The Donald server when that's what I was talking about and made that perfectly clear.

• I made a statement that Discord was shutting down servers & users in order to stifle political speech and suppress dissent

Not quite. You said, "Discord literally banned tens of thousands of Trump supporters in December & January. This wasn't because they were "Trolls" or engaging in "Hateful behavior"".

Quote

• You attempted to rebut this by claiming that "The Donald" server was only banned after the January 6 demonstration, implying that the banned users must have been "bad people"
• I correctly pointed out, this banning activity was occurring at least a month in advance of any demonstration

I pointed out The Donald server was shut down after the Capital riots, and that the reason was the overwhelming majority of the users using that server were NEW to Discord and had jumped there from the shut-down Reddit section about the same topic. This accounts for the bulk of your "tens of thousands" of users. You were being disingenuous spinning it as directed at people's long held politic views on Discord as opposed to what amounted to essentially a sudden raid from off site. And yes, while far from all Trump supporters are bad dudes, that sudden influx to The Donald server was in fact bad news.

QuoteIf your statement about The Donald server wasn't meant to rebut my prior statement, why did you bring it up? You're pretending now like this was some innocent non-sequitur. Do you often make interjections about irrelevant things?

It was meant to rebut it, with the context that most of what you were talking about was that one shut-down of that server which you're conveniently trying to spin as something else.

Quote from: Abraxus on March 04, 2022, 11:57:02 AM
If he was less of disingenuous virtue signalling SJW he would try to grasp the concept that outside of Discord they have no business tracking what I say or do as company.

Of course because Mistwell can't get free handjobs from similar virtue signallers he had to be his usual deluded self. It's pointless to engage and he can take his victim martyr act to someone who cares.

Be dishonest,  disingenuous poster who refuses to debate in good faith then expect to be treated accordingly going forward.

LOL Oh yes, I am a SJW because I disagree with you. It couldn't be a shred of a possibility that someone other than an SJW can disagree with you, right? The world is black hats and white hats and if people disagree with you they must be wearing a black hat, right?

You're as bad as the SJW.

Banning people for being on the opposite side of the political isle is not just wrong, it's terrifying. I only use Discord because I have no other options for those communities I frequent. I've had absolutely terrible experiences on Discord with shitty mods and I feel like I have to constantly walk on eggshells to avoid being banned by absurdly thin-skinned zoomers who give you permanent strikes without any warning no matter how saccharine you try to behave and side with idiots who spread dangerous medical misinformation like "televisions give you sunburns!", which is especially frustrating because my ASD means social interactions with those filthy neurotypicals is fucking torture for me anyhow, but I don't have a choice in the matter.

If discord was destroyed by a malware attack tomorrow, then I'd probably feel relieved. It's one less hellscape to worry about.

I think it boils down to trust.  I don't disagree with Mistwell at all that an online service has a vested interest in booting off rampaging assholes.  We've seen the occasional rampaging asshole here, and nobody's shed any tears when Pundit booted them off.  Nobody likes rampaging assholes.  The trick is that I trust Pundit to not just go booting someone for disagreeing with him or saying something against the popular opinion of the site, but I do not trust Billy the minimum-wager Discord mod to have similar restraint or care.  Billy doesn't give a fuck, is not paid enough to give a fuck.  Bob the overpaid executive also doesn't give a fuck, and if it makes the company look better to reporters that they're 'taking a stand against -ism', Bob will see everyone to the right of Stalin kicked off in a heartbeat.  In reality that would be a stupid move, so I don't actually expect Discord to do that, but if the pros outweighed the cons from the financial side, they absolutely would do it without a second thought.

Quote from: Valatar on April 01, 2022, 05:10:38 PM
I think it boils down to trust.  I don't disagree with Mistwell at all that an online service has a vested interest in booting off rampaging assholes.  We've seen the occasional rampaging asshole here, and nobody's shed any tears when Pundit booted them off.  Nobody likes rampaging assholes.  The trick is that I trust Pundit to not just go booting someone for disagreeing with him or saying something against the popular opinion of the site, but I do not trust Billy the minimum-wager Discord mod to have similar restraint or care.  Billy doesn't give a fuck, is not paid enough to give a fuck.  Bob the overpaid executive also doesn't give a fuck, and if it makes the company look better to reporters that they're 'taking a stand against -ism', Bob will see everyone to the right of Stalin kicked off in a heartbeat.  In reality that would be a stupid move, so I don't actually expect Discord to do that, but if the pros outweighed the cons from the financial side, they absolutely would do it without a second thought.

What it really boils down to is power. Getting banned from TheRPGSite.com means nothing because this is a forum with maybe a few hundred people that shoot the shit. Getting banned from Discord removes your access to a huge range of communications used by hundreds of millions of people from personal friends, corporations, charities, religious organizations, even government.

Getting banned from a single business when there are thousands of services in a city? No big deal. Getting banned from one of the world's largest communications services? Much bigger deal. Getting banned from that same service as part of a coordinated effort among transnational gangsters to silence opposition to their cartel-like actions?

We need someone with the will to solve this kind of problem.

Quote from: Valatar on April 01, 2022, 05:10:38 PM
I think it boils down to trust.  I don't disagree with Mistwell at all that an online service has a vested interest in booting off rampaging assholes.  We've seen the occasional rampaging asshole here, and nobody's shed any tears when Pundit booted them off.  Nobody likes rampaging assholes.  The trick is that I trust Pundit to not just go booting someone for disagreeing with him or saying something against the popular opinion of the site, but I do not trust Billy the minimum-wager Discord mod to have similar restraint or care.  Billy doesn't give a fuck, is not paid enough to give a fuck.  Bob the overpaid executive also doesn't give a fuck, and if it makes the company look better to reporters that they're 'taking a stand against -ism', Bob will see everyone to the right of Stalin kicked off in a heartbeat.  In reality that would be a stupid move, so I don't actually expect Discord to do that, but if the pros outweighed the cons from the financial side, they absolutely would do it without a second thought.

It boils down to getting banned for something as vague as "hateful behaviour" and a behaviour that didn't took place on the site.

So, this would be like pundit policing your every interaction, both on and off line and to ban you for stuff he doesn't like that you didn't do on his forum.

But yoiu guys go ahead and keep on the apologetics for the authoritarian boot on your necks.

Quote from: Zelen on April 01, 2022, 10:05:18 PM
Getting banned from TheRPGSite.com means nothing because this is a forum with maybe a few hundred people that shoot the shit.

I think we can all agree the shit had it coming.

Quote from: Zelen on April 01, 2022, 10:05:18 PM

Quote from: Valatar on April 01, 2022, 05:10:38 PM
I think it boils down to trust.  I don't disagree with Mistwell at all that an online service has a vested interest in booting off rampaging assholes.  We've seen the occasional rampaging asshole here, and nobody's shed any tears when Pundit booted them off.  Nobody likes rampaging assholes.  The trick is that I trust Pundit to not just go booting someone for disagreeing with him or saying something against the popular opinion of the site, but I do not trust Billy the minimum-wager Discord mod to have similar restraint or care.  Billy doesn't give a fuck, is not paid enough to give a fuck.  Bob the overpaid executive also doesn't give a fuck, and if it makes the company look better to reporters that they're 'taking a stand against -ism', Bob will see everyone to the right of Stalin kicked off in a heartbeat.  In reality that would be a stupid move, so I don't actually expect Discord to do that, but if the pros outweighed the cons from the financial side, they absolutely would do it without a second thought.

What it really boils down to is power. Getting banned from TheRPGSite.com means nothing because this is a forum with maybe a few hundred people that shoot the shit. Getting banned from Discord removes your access to a huge range of communications used by hundreds of millions of people from personal friends, corporations, charities, religious organizations, even government.

Getting banned from a single business when there are thousands of services in a city? No big deal. Getting banned from one of the world's largest communications services? Much bigger deal. Getting banned from that same service as part of a coordinated effort among transnational gangsters to silence opposition to their cartel-like actions?

We need someone with the will to solve this kind of problem.

  I think Tyler Durden had the right idea.  hard to manage without killing people, though he did pull it off.

Quote from: Zelen on April 01, 2022, 10:05:18 PM
What it really boils down to is power. Getting banned from TheRPGSite.com means nothing because this is a forum with maybe a few hundred people that shoot the shit. Getting banned from Discord removes your access to a huge range of communications used by hundreds of millions of people from personal friends, corporations, charities, religious organizations, even government.

Getting banned from a single business when there are thousands of services in a city? No big deal. Getting banned from one of the world's largest communications services? Much bigger deal. Getting banned from that same service as part of a coordinated effort among transnational gangsters to silence opposition to their cartel-like actions?

We need someone with the will to solve this kind of problem.

What do people think about the new EU Digital Markets Act? It doesn't directly address the issue of getting banned, but it is about breaking monopoly power.

https://techmonitor.ai/policy/digital-economy/digital-markets-act-eu-agrees-antitrust-rules-digital-economy

It doesn't go far enough, but at least the EU is showing more backbone in standing up to the big tech firms that the U.S. is. (This also applies earlier in their enforcing the "right to be forgotten" on big tech.)

Quote from: Persimmon on March 02, 2022, 12:27:07 AM
This is as close as I get to social media, so I'm good.  No facebook account, no twitter, no Baidu, no personal website etc.   I loathe Discord because it just plain sucks. 

I also dislike VTTs because if I'm going to game it needs to just work without constantly freezing and I want to hang with friends and family and knock back a few adult beverages.

So just unplug, people, and you'll be happier....

That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers.  For some people that's the only way to game.  Are you saying it's better if they just don't game at all rather than game online?

There is a user who was banned on a gaming message board for off-site behavior which I agree with. He was convicted of child porn involving his young daughter. His spouse was also on the message board, had been unaware of it all until she discovered it and is the one who had him arrested. From prison he tried to log back into the message board, somehow, and was banned.

I'm fine with banning him for that off-site behavior. Should be noted he didn't dispute the claim, ever.

Quote from: GhostNinja on May 09, 2022, 03:50:39 PM

Quote from: Persimmon on March 02, 2022, 12:27:07 AM
This is as close as I get to social media, so I'm good.  No facebook account, no twitter, no Baidu, no personal website etc.   I loathe Discord because it just plain sucks. 

I also dislike VTTs because if I'm going to game it needs to just work without constantly freezing and I want to hang with friends and family and knock back a few adult beverages.

So just unplug, people, and you'll be happier....

That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers.  For some people that's the only way to game.  Are you saying it's better if they just don't game at all rather than game online?

How ever did we use to play before the internet?

I guess we just didnt game at all.

Quote from: Shasarak on May 13, 2022, 06:44:19 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on May 09, 2022, 03:50:39 PM

Quote from: Persimmon on March 02, 2022, 12:27:07 AM
This is as close as I get to social media, so I'm good.  No facebook account, no twitter, no Baidu, no personal website etc.   I loathe Discord because it just plain sucks. 

I also dislike VTTs because if I'm going to game it needs to just work without constantly freezing and I want to hang with friends and family and knock back a few adult beverages.

So just unplug, people, and you'll be happier....

That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers.  For some people that's the only way to game.  Are you saying it's better if they just don't game at all rather than game online?

How ever did we use to play before the internet?

I guess we just didnt game at all.

What part of "That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers." didn't you understand?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2022, 06:55:35 PM
What part of "That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers." didn't you understand?

The part where you get other people to play with you, rather then just complaining about not being able to play.

???

Quote from: Shasarak on May 13, 2022, 11:31:13 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2022, 06:55:35 PM
What part of "That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers." didn't you understand?

The part where you get other people to play with you, rather then just complaining about not being able to play.

???

So you're being deliberately obtuse.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2022, 11:33:24 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 13, 2022, 11:31:13 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2022, 06:55:35 PM
What part of "That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers." didn't you understand?

The part where you get other people to play with you, rather then just complaining about not being able to play.

???

So you're being deliberately obtuse.

It's Shasarak.  That's his modus operandi.  You can't take him seriously, or you're the one being obtuse.  ;)

Quote from: Eirikrautha on May 14, 2022, 09:29:10 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2022, 11:33:24 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 13, 2022, 11:31:13 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2022, 06:55:35 PM
What part of "That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers." didn't you understand?

The part where you get other people to play with you, rather then just complaining about not being able to play.

???

So you're being deliberately obtuse.

It's Shasarak.  That's his modus operandi.  You can't take him seriously, or you're the one being obtuse.  ;)

Yeah, I tend to forget that.

Shasarak, pull your head out of your ass before you suffocate.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2022, 06:55:35 PM
What part of "That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers." didn't you understand?

Quote from: Eirikrautha on May 14, 2022, 09:29:10 AM
It's Shasarak.  That's his modus operandi.  You can't take him seriously, or you're the one being obtuse.  ;)

Quote from: Ghostmaker on May 14, 2022, 02:37:57 PM
Shasarak, pull your head out of your ass before you suffocate.

I bow to your superior arguments. 

You have convinced me that the only reason you can not find a game is because you were banned from Discord.

Quote from: Shasarak on May 14, 2022, 07:40:49 PM
You have convinced me that the only reason you can not find a game is because you were banned from Discord.

Back in the old days, we didn't have gamers. 
We had to make them out of normal humans.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2022, 11:33:24 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 13, 2022, 11:31:13 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 13, 2022, 06:55:35 PM
What part of "That's easier said then done if you live in an area where there aren't many gamers." didn't you understand?

The part where you get other people to play with you, rather then just complaining about not being able to play.
???

So you're being deliberately obtuse.

uhm, kettles and pots calling each other black, much?
Seriously, I get both points.
Talk to PEOPLE, next door, at work, at church, post adds at the bar, at the pizza & wings joint, and invite them over...
then sit them down, then you drug their drinks. when they are unconscious you tie all of them down to their chairs...

When they wake up, announce that they will being playing D&D for their lives and the campaign will run from level 0 (age 12+1d4) to level 42 using the immortals booklet... They need to play quickly, if they take too long deciding a course of action, just flip the lever to move that player's chair in to a SAW kill-room. By the end of the night you will either of had the best game session of your life an they will want to play more...
or you will need a few mops for all the blood.

Quote from: DocJones on May 14, 2022, 09:16:58 PM
Back in the old days, we didn't have gamers. 
We had to make them out of normal humans.

Exactly.

You'd be surprised how many non-gamers have an ancillary interest that will turn them into RPGers with little effort.

Especially for rules-light games with fun groups. Make it easy on noobs and they will keep coming back.

TBP has been doing this for years.

Quote from: jhkim on April 02, 2022, 02:31:28 PM

Quote from: Zelen on April 01, 2022, 10:05:18 PM
What it really boils down to is power. Getting banned from TheRPGSite.com means nothing because this is a forum with maybe a few hundred people that shoot the shit. Getting banned from Discord removes your access to a huge range of communications used by hundreds of millions of people from personal friends, corporations, charities, religious organizations, even government.

Getting banned from a single business when there are thousands of services in a city? No big deal. Getting banned from one of the world's largest communications services? Much bigger deal. Getting banned from that same service as part of a coordinated effort among transnational gangsters to silence opposition to their cartel-like actions?

We need someone with the will to solve this kind of problem.

What do people think about the new EU Digital Markets Act? It doesn't directly address the issue of getting banned, but it is about breaking monopoly power.

https://techmonitor.ai/policy/digital-economy/digital-markets-act-eu-agrees-antitrust-rules-digital-economy

It doesn't go far enough, but at least the EU is showing more backbone in standing up to the big tech firms that the U.S. is. (This also applies earlier in their enforcing the "right to be forgotten" on big tech.)

I feel like chat app interoperability might be hard to pull off, could maybe be hard to pull off without infringing on trade secrets (no idea really, not my area of expertise), dictate certain business models artificially over others, and make the starting line a little harder for smaller digital messaging businesses to cross, but also I know jack and shite when it comes to coding, so IDK for sure. For Discord, it's not gonna include stuff like voice and video chat obviously, but at least if it counts as a messaging app (dunno if true) they couldn't ban folks who use other sites from posting to discord if there's enforced interoperability.

Also "Companies that break the rules can be fined up to 10% of global sales for their first offence, and 20% thereafter." seemed a bit weird to me, almost as though all offenses are treated equal, and 2 offenses is enough to trash 1/3rd not of profits but of revenue. Guess we'll see in early 2024 who gets shafted and to what extent. But it does feel like it makes entering this field as a newcomer a little more high risk. That said, could make it harder for companies like Discord to in any way ignore, in part because the penalties for a double infraction seem a bit absurd. (And possibly a way for Europe to grab corporate money the world over.)

That said, I do like that it tries to promote competition at least in spirit, and seems to dislike self-preferencing and the like. Discord I feel has less relevance to debate concerning the latter, but meh.

They're trying something, and something does need to be done, but IDK if this is the right thing specifically, and it's definitely not enough on its own from my perspective. (Though that's partly because I support making political association a protected class, and refusing the denial of goods and services or government benefits and protections on that basis. I feel like that would kinda solve things like the Discord issue mentioned in this thread.)

I disagree with Shire that competition is often bad within this area, doesn't fit with what little I know of basic microeconomic models of monopolies, but I also have limited economic knowledge. Maybe he's gonna use an economies of scale argument or something, though I feel like the push towards interoperability and this being a digital service with low and relatively fixed supply costs regardless of size contradicts that. Would need somebody who knows economics better to comment for sure though. Feel like discord could use some genuinely comparable competitors, and doesn't seem like we're getting super much out of the lack thereof beyond their feeling secure enough to pull sketchy stuff like this.

I also fear statements like this one he made, in that they may perhaps be used to justify monopolies, widespread private censorship and rule by megacorp: "there is evidence to show that consumers and small businesses benefit from large platforms that can impose rules on the markets they operate". Thankfully, at least for now the regulatory authorities don't seem to be buying it in this specific instance. Discord is imposing rules on its market/consumers alright. And a form of illiberal rule that should not be the purview of government, much less corporations.

Kinda wish more economic and political expert folks than just Shier were constantly giving commentary in that article, lol. That said, very interesting to read about.

Those are my thoughts.

Edited: Added more Discord related stuff to more directly tie in to the topic of the thread.

Quote from: Shasarak on May 13, 2022, 11:31:13 PM
The part where you get other people to play with you, rather then just complaining about not being able to play.

Except I didn't complain about not being able to play.  Reading comprehension is your friend.

I said that I can play and run games, but I have to do it VIA VTT's because there aren't a lot of gamers here.

Quote from: DocJones on May 14, 2022, 09:16:58 PM
Back in the old days, we didn't have gamers. 
We had to make them out of normal humans.

I tried that with my friends and people I know but no luck.  With the internet, board games, video games, etc there is too much taking away people's focus.

So for me, where I live it's VTT's or no gaming at all.

Quote from: Spinachcat on May 15, 2022, 12:32:31 AM
Exactly.

You'd be surprised how many non-gamers have an ancillary interest that will turn them into RPGers with little effort.

Especially for rules-light games with fun groups. Make it easy on noobs and they will keep coming back.

Except that hasn't worked for me.  It's easier to get people to play board games (which I love) because there is not a lot of time taken up.  You play, you have fun and then you are done and move on.

So for me, where I am it's either I play/run using a VTT or I don't get to play at all.    If people are in areas where there are a lot of gamers, you are lucky.  But it's not true everywhere.

Quote from: GhostNinja on July 07, 2022, 01:28:53 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 13, 2022, 11:31:13 PM
The part where you get other people to play with you, rather then just complaining about not being able to play.

Except I didn't complain about not being able to play.  Reading comprehension is your friend.

I said that I can play and run games, but I have to do it VIA VTT's because there aren't a lot of gamers here.

Maybe the real problem is your timeliness?

Quote from: Shasarak on July 07, 2022, 05:04:09 PM

Maybe the real problem is your timeliness?

Nope.  Nice that you go right to it being me that is the problem than just admit that there are areas where there aren't a lot of gamers.

  You know what I do not always have the best memory....but I can not remember a post on this forum or the main table top forum to ever get a group together to play online.  It seems with the ease of access to online tools, how many people on this site who play using those tools, and the people who want to game here....that from time to time there would be a looking for players/game type posts.   So...it seems strange to see this lack of games or people looking to form groups.  I get the whole better to play IRL, I am firmly in that camp, but I also never understand the people looking for online games/gamers never bother to just post a thread looking for players with a few details as to what they are running/looking for.

Quote from: oggsmash on July 07, 2022, 05:39:44 PM
  You know what I do not always have the best memory....but I can not remember a post on this forum or the main table top forum to ever get a group together to play online.  It seems with the ease of access to online tools, how many people on this site who play using those tools, and the people who want to game here....that from time to time there would be a looking for players/game type posts.   So...it seems strange to see this lack of games or people looking to form groups.  I get the whole better to play IRL, I am firmly in that camp, but I also never understand the people looking for online games/gamers never bother to just post a thread looking for players with a few details as to what they are running/looking for.

I don't have a problem playing online (except when you are playing something that isn't D&D because most gamers think D&D is the only game out there).  When its D&D its easy to find games and I do pretty well finding people for Savage Worlds.

My problem is finding people in real life, not online.

Quote from: GhostNinja on July 07, 2022, 06:18:41 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on July 07, 2022, 05:39:44 PM
  You know what I do not always have the best memory....but I can not remember a post on this forum or the main table top forum to ever get a group together to play online.  It seems with the ease of access to online tools, how many people on this site who play using those tools, and the people who want to game here....that from time to time there would be a looking for players/game type posts.   So...it seems strange to see this lack of games or people looking to form groups.  I get the whole better to play IRL, I am firmly in that camp, but I also never understand the people looking for online games/gamers never bother to just post a thread looking for players with a few details as to what they are running/looking for.

I don't have a problem playing online (except when you are playing something that isn't D&D because most gamers think D&D is the only game out there).  When its D&D its easy to find games and I do pretty well finding people for Savage Worlds.

My problem is finding people in real life, not online.

  My fault, I was just making the observation, not talking specifically about your post or situation.   I would agree it can be hard to find players in real life (honestly, when I took up playing again I talked friends into it and the ones who liked it played, the ones who didnt tried it and do not make the regular games), I was just making the observation that I can not remember ever seeing a post on this site about people looking for other players for a virtual game from this site.   It certainly could have happened, I just do not remember seeing one. 

    I did not intend to suggest something that is not an issue for you, reading the last few posts and others over the years just sort of triggered that text blurt out from me.

Quote from: oggsmash on July 07, 2022, 06:30:30 PM
  My fault, I was just making the observation, not talking specifically about your post or situation.   I would agree it can be hard to find players in real life (honestly, when I took up playing again I talked friends into it and the ones who liked it played, the ones who didnt tried it and do not make the regular games), I was just making the observation that I can not remember ever seeing a post on this site about people looking for other players for a virtual game from this site.   It certainly could have happened, I just do not remember seeing one. 

    I did not intend to suggest something that is not an issue for you, reading the last few posts and others over the years just sort of triggered that text blurt out from me.

No worries.  I am not some snowflake who gets offended.  Mistakes happen, people misread posts.  It's all good.

Honestly, dude... If Discord cared about inclusion it wouldn't be banning or even considering banning people for offsite behavior that stays offsite. Much less banning people for their political views and ideological expression. Whether on-site or not.

Quote from: DocJones on May 14, 2022, 09:16:58 PM
Back in the old days, we didn't have gamers. 
We had to make them out of normal humans.

"The sculpture is already complete within the marble block, before I start my work. It is already there, I just have to chisel away the superfluous material."
— Michelangelo


That's how I think of gamers. You can't make a gamer, you simply discover gamers that didn't know what they are. I know that for me, when I discovered TTRPGs, I was instantly hooked. I feel sorry for all the gamers throughout history before Wargamers and TTRPg's existed.

I love how the people who run these kind of platform think they can actually police other people's thoughts, seriously "offsite people behaviour"? How the fuck are these morons going to enforce this? if all it would take to be banned is a blue haired weirdo snitching on you then it could very well work against anyone, I think it's little more than the usual virtue signaling.

Quote from: Abbo1993 on June 06, 2023, 01:42:47 PM
I love how the people who run these kind of platform think they can actually police other people's thoughts, seriously "offsite people behaviour"? How the fuck are these morons going to enforce this? if all it would take to be banned is a blue haired weirdo snitching on you then it could very well work against anyone, I think it's little more than the usual virtue signaling.

Ask all the people banned from Patreon because some bluehaired landwhale weirdo repported them for off platform behaviour if it's just virtue signaling.