I thought in Fantasy Age a 1 was a barely made it and a 6 was a great job irrespective of the target number?

Quote from: Omega;1012104I thought in Fantasy Age a 1 was a barely made it and a 6 was a great job irrespective of the target number?

Yes. But if your target number is 18, and you succeed, you've automatically got the best possible success (because the only possible successful roll is 6, 6, 6). "Barely made it" isn't possible. Nor is 2, 3, 4 or 5.

"Barely made it" isn't a possible outcome unless the target number is 13 or less, and even then remains highly unlikely until you reach quite low difficulties. Intuitively, the opposite should be true.

Hear is a TBP thread https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?820600-Dragon-Age-Core-Rulebook-Pretty-darn-perfect-fantasy-RPG about DA which points out the same issue.  The two most popular solution seems to be adding a 4th die to determine stunt points.

I've also got no experience with the game.  From what is described, I'd probably go with the 4th die as well. Though if it were an all new groups (that is, no one else familiar with the game either), then I might be tempted to finesse the issue by rewording how the stunt points work.  It's inverting the die but explained differently.   Say it something like this:

"For any skill attempt, you automatically get 5 stunt points going in.  The different colored die is a difficulty die--it's the number of stunt points consumed in your mere attempt to succeed.  Whatever is left, you get to use for stunts.  Roll a 6, you still have one left."

I'd never try something like that if even one other person had read the rules.  The inverted thinking can be even more difficult to manage than the inverted die.  But if no one else has any experience, that kind of inverted thinking can be surprisingly effective.  OTOH, given that the design seems to have not been very well thought out, I see no reason to jump through the hoops to preserve the existing math.  The 4th die would seem to be a better system, the only minimal drawback being one extra die in the hand.

Yes. Inverting the die or subtracting from a base or something isnt hard of course but it is.... messy, kind of a cluttered rule that appears added on (which of course it is) Simply rolling 3 dice for the test and another 'special' dice for success level or stunts feels cleaner, more professional. It also allows a full spread of possibilities regardless of how hard the attempt it etc.

Another upside is that I use the same die to determine possible fumbles when failing. Not having this Stunt Die skew to the whims of the actual attempt roll is a lot easier to manage.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1012023Im using a heavily houseruled version of Fantasy Age for my campaign about to kick off next week. You can think what you will about the system, Ive elected to give it a try regardless but I have run into an oddity in the rules regarding die rolls I would appreciate your opinion on.

Without a lot of unnecessary detail let me just explain that you must roll 3d6 equal to or more than a target number, typically above 10. If you succeed, one of the 3 dice (of a different color) is used to both determine degree of success (1 meaning you barely made it, 6 meaning you did it with style etc.) and also generate a number of stunt points you can use to further effect your action. (obviously more points is better than fewer points)

The oddity is that as the difficulty of your test increases, so does the number you have to roll. Now as that different colored die is included in the outcome it creates this wierd situation where the higher you need to roll to succeed, the more likely you are to succeed WELL and generate MORE stunt points. One would think that exactly the opposite would be true. If I am attempting an extremely difficult task, there is a far better chance I will barely make it that killing it.

In the RAW however, if for example you need to roll a 17 or higher, there is no way to 'barely make it' as the stunt die has to be at least a 5.

Ive considered two ways of addressing this... one to simply roll a fourth dice, three of one color for the task and an odd one by itself for degree of success etc. Or, to invert the result of that stunt die (use the opposite number than the one shown) such that the trend is reversed. (The higher you have to roll, the less likely you are to do it very well with lots of stunts etc.)

Anyone understand what the hell Im talking about?  Laugh

Thoughts?

That's weird that the game gets its effects from a die value rather than from a calculated effect of a die. Was the game playtested at all?

ADDED:
It seems that players are focused on stunts more than anything else about the die mechanic. The higher a successful roll is, the more stunts they can choose from probably.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1012161That's weird that the game gets its effects from a die value rather than from a calculated effect of a die. Was the game playtested at all?

ADDED:
It seems that players are focused on stunts more than anything else about the die mechanic. The higher a successful roll is, the more stunts they can choose from probably.

This issue is unfortunately one of a great many that will become apparent as you play the game. It got a lot of fame from being featured on Will Wheaton' s show and that same channel's RPG spinoff. Unfortunately, hype doesn't make a good game. I wish the OP luck as a game is more about the players than the rules, but you are using a butter knife to cut your porterhouse.

Quote from: Beldar;1012170This issue is unfortunately one of a great many that will become apparent as you play the game. It got a lot of fame from being featured on Will Wheaton' s show and that same channel's RPG spinoff. Unfortunately, hype doesn't make a good game. I wish the OP luck as a game is more about the players than the rules, but you are using a butter knife to cut your porterhouse.

Robert J Freemantle did around a few years worth of YouTube game sessions for Dragon Age. I don't think Fantasy Age had been released yet. It had some tier level buyer costs involved with the game, if I remember.

Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1012107Yes. But if your target number is 18, and you succeed, you've automatically got the best possible success (because the only possible successful roll is 6, 6, 6). "Barely made it" isn't possible. Nor is 2, 3, 4 or 5.

"Barely made it" isn't a possible outcome unless the target number is 13 or less, and even then remains highly unlikely until you reach quite low difficulties. Intuitively, the opposite should be true.

Ahh. I had a feeling that would be the answer. I thought it was 3d6+a stat or skill modifier? Not a flat 3d6?

Adding a fourth die seems about the only sane way to go about it and still get the effect.

Though honestly it just seems like the stunt die is an odd gimmick system shoehorned in.

Quote from: Omega;1012246Ahh. I had a feeling that would be the answer. I thought it was 3d6+a stat or skill modifier? Not a flat 3d6?

Adding a fourth die seems about the only sane way to go about it and still get the effect.

Though honestly it just seems like the stunt die is an odd gimmick system shoehorned in.

Well you do add a stat or skill bonus but that really doesn't change the issue.

Is the 'Dragon Age' mentioned here have to do anything with the Bioware games?

Quote from: joriandrake;1012253Is the 'Dragon Age' mentioned here have to do anything with the Bioware games?

It's the tabletop version of the video game.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1012252Well you do add a stat or skill bonus but that really doesn't change the issue.

Not at the extreme end of the TNs  unless the bonuses can get up to +6? But it does shift the problem slightly.

Quote from: Omega;1012366Not at the extreme end of the TNs  unless the bonuses can get up to +6? But it does shift the problem slightly.

Modifiers influence what is difficult and what is easy, but they don't change the fundamental problem. To rephrase my earlier post:

Yes. But if the number required on the dice (after factoring in all modifiers) is 18, and you succeed, you've automatically got the best possible success (because the only possible successful roll is 6, 6, 6)

"Barely made it" isn't a possible outcome unless the number required on the dice (after factoring in all modifiers) is 13 or less, and even then remains highly unlikely until the number required on the dice becomes quite low. Intuitively, the opposite should be true.