Quote from: ColonelHardissonWhy is that, though?

Not answering for Pata who I don't know. Only speaking in general terms.

Some people I've met who go in for this sort of stuff do it because "the art of rpgs should reflect and comment on real life". Make of that what you will.

Others I imagine go into for much the same reasons as people watch and enjoy "Jerry Springer". Again, make of that what you will.

I don't think I've encountered any other significant reasons other than "because I like it".

Quote from: gleichmanSome people I've met who go in for this sort of stuff do it because "the art of rpgs should reflect and comment on real life". Make of that what you will.

I guess that's a good way to explain it. It makes more sense that way, to me at least. I have a film degree, and using such situations as the basis of movies is common. I guess I was hung up on the fact that I see RPGs as done more as a hobby, a way to blow off steam, rather than to wrestle with the dark aspects of existence.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonI guess I was hung up on the fact that I see RPGs as done more as a hobby, a way to blow off steam, rather than to wrestle with the dark aspects of existence.

The gap between those of us who view it as a pure entertainment hobby and/or a place to take our escapist fantasies to and those who view it a new art form is vast.

Cool, I am glad we have come through the cloud of snark to real talkin'.

I too have had powerfully bad experiences with guns and have had friends who have been really damaged by situations with firearms.  I'm not living any kind of gangstah life, nor am I a special forces operator but I'm not a babe in the woods  either who doesn't consider the world away from my monitor.

I feel like I am confronting that shit at the gaming table.  Not just guns but dysfunctional families, right and wrong, justice.  I like it when the game brushes against something that really matters to me, pushes a button, and when I am with a group I trust, even makes me a little uncomfortable.

This isn't every moment of every game but its around.  I like my dragons and trolls and elves and kewl-hot-katana action but I like when the fun and the real world get mixed up, not bcause I force it but because the players bring it to the table and we all confront that shit together.

It is like an exorcism, a communal exorcism.

I hope that helps explain.

Quote from: PakaI hope that helps explain.

Sounds related to this:

Cathartic Module
  A cathartic module is one that was designed to produce a strong emotional reaction in the players. It might involve emotionally confronting subject matter, immersion in character, and avoiding anything that breaks the players’ suspension of disbelief (such as metagaming or out-of-character talk). Cathartic modules are typically systemless scenarios designed for convention play.
  The goal of a cathartic game is for the players to be affected by the experience (and sometimes disturbed). Occasionally games are described as cathartic when they rely on sensationalism, taboo breaking, or shock value to create a reaction.
  Some players prefer simply to enjoy themselves; cathartic games aren’t to everyone’s taste, and sensationalist games certainly aren’t.


Quoted from http://www.geocities.com/dragon-dreamer/roleplaying/glossary.html

I recall it being something of a movement in it's corner of the rpg world a while back.

Yeah, when it happens, it happens but I'm not shooting for every game I play to be an after-school special.

I also think the wild west and shoot-outs are just iconic and fucking cool.

Quote from: PakaI feel like I am confronting that shit at the gaming table.  Not just guns but dysfunctional families, right and wrong, justice.  I like it when the game brushes against something that really matters to me, pushes a button, and when I am with a group I trust, even makes me a little uncomfortable... ...It is like an exorcism, a communal exorcism.

I hope that helps explain.

That it does.

I still think you're crazy for enjoying that sort of shit, but whatever floats your boat.  

Quote from: CyberzombieThat it does.

I still think you're crazy for enjoying that sort of shit, but whatever floats your boat.  

I really think I am being misrepresented by this medium of communication.

Are any of you going to be at Gen Con or Dex Con for you east coast folk?  If so, let me know and we will get together and play some Dogs.

Forge games are often poorly represented as saying something big rather than games that are just fun and honestly, at my table, fun comes first.  If we say something abou tthe world around us, but we don't have fun, that is a shitty night of gaming (and it hasn't happened) but if we have fun and through that process something about the world get's said...bonus.

Anyway, lemme know.

I am totally with Paka on this.

Quote from: G-manSome people I've met who go in for this sort of stuff do it because "the art of rpgs should reflect and comment on real life". Make of that what you will

While I don't really think of gaming as "art" (and if it is art, is collective ephemeral art that is gone the moment it happens), the quote above fits my view of these things perfectly.  

I want situations (not every situation, but a good amount) in my games to be comment or reflection on "real" life.  I don't like abuse, torture, murder, or deceit in my real life (and unfortunately have been exposed to those things in my lifetime) - but those are all aspects of the "adventuresome life" we are immersing ourselves in at the same time that we have a nice little safe distance from it.

BTW, this is totally turning into a discussion that belongs in that other forum

Quote from: el-remmenBTW, this is totally turning into a discussion that belongs in that other forum

I noticed that, but I can't actually get anyone to *talk* about die mechanics, apparently.

Quote from: CyberzombieI noticed that, but I can't actually get anyone to *talk* about die mechanics, apparently.

I like rolling me some dice.

I like big hand fulls that I can barely hold on to and counting my successes.  I like the betrayal when the dice eff me and some fictional dingus is going to bite the dust because of it.

Get this topic back on track if ya want.  I'm with it.

I like when the dice surprise us and push the story into a place none of us saw coming.  I like when the mechanics and the dice and the story get together and have a party, each making the other stronger and cooler through the players.

Yeah, I like dice.

Also, people who get pissed at their dice for rolling poorly are funny.

There is an actual essay in the HackMaster Players Handbook that discusses how to throw dice properly - with photos! - and how to ensure they stay as lucky for you as possible.

As far as an elegant single die resolution system, for combat at least. Each weapon could have a chart like so:
Of course you'd add the typical bonuses and subtract the target's AC and so on, but anything above a 20 is treated as a 20, anything below a 1 is treated as a 1.

I'm assuming that the numbers for the weapons is the amount of damage done. My first thought was "Hmm. Rolemaster, but with a d20." RM has one chart for each of most weapons (though there are some cases where a weapon is described as "treat as rapier +5 vs soft armor and -5 vs metal armor) and the charts cross-reference your attack roll with the opponent's armor. Though RM isn't a one-roll system that way, since most hits result in a critical, which then require a second roll. E.g. an attack might result in "12BP", which means "12 hp, and a B Puncturing crit." You then roll another d100 (mostly unmodified) on the chart for B puncturing crits, which might result in something like "You stab foe in the arm. He takes 3 more hits and bleed 1/round." This is quite complicated, but it allows the game to model things like "chain mail makes it harder to dodge, so more blows will connect than with someone in regular clothes. But the armor takes up most of the impact, so it's a lot harder to seriously hurt someone in mail." In other words, you might need to hit 90 in order to do anything to an unarmored person, but only 70 to do anything to the guy in mail. However, the first crit on the unarmored person appears at 95 on the chart, while the first crit on the guy in mail appears at 110.

Come to think of it, your chart is more like HARP, where you have one chart per weapon type (edged, crushing, etc.). Armor provides a penalty to the attacker's roll, instead of the cross-referencing done in Rolemaster. Critical effects are also included in the single roll.