Quote from: James J SkachDon't thank me, thank Bill.  It was our conversation that drilled it down for me.


OK...I'll take 1/2 credit

I already have "What Bill Said!" in my sig. On almost all issues we seem to see it the same way. You, I want to thank for explaining it so well.

-clash

Quote from: TonyLBMaybe it is (sorta kinda) cheating ... or, at least, not playing the game that people unconsciously think they should be playing.

In a very real sense, the outcome of the climax in your scenario is decided not at the climax, but at the point where the player earns the hero point.  After that you're in a world where non-random fiat by that player has power.  There are plenty of things that can complicate that (loads of german board-games use mostly-non-random resource spending to make a game that is unresolved until the last moment) but that's the gist.

If your player feels that things should be unresolved until the final moment, but he swings into the final conflict with eight hero points, any one of which is sufficient to guarantee his victory if he chooses to use it, then using a hero point invalidates his sense that things should be unresolved.  They were unresolved until he made that choice.

Does this link in with what David R. is saying about randomness?  That, until the dice are rolled, the crisis is unresolved even if there is only one chance in a thousand that the dice will go against the players?

I think this is part of it, in a way it's anticlimactic as you short circuit the final drama by a player declaration, albeit perhaps an earned in play player declaration.

As such the point of risk moves in time, from that final roll to some earlier event when you earned your drama points, an earlier event when quite likely the player didn't realise the impact it would later have.

So, instead of the big finale being a dramatic win/lose event it's a foregone event because of an earlier victory.  It takes out the drama of the moment.

And the thing is, games ain't books, in a book or a film then of course the hero won't lose, but in a game he may and that is vital.  Whether it be an rpg or a computer game, the real possibility of loss is intrinsic to certain forms of gaming drama (not all, and there are computer games you can't lose, but most I would say).

i think i like the mechanic better as in warhammer fate points, where you use it to nullify an unfavorable result.  then if you save your points for the final confrontation or whatever, you've got some leeway if the BBEG rolls great.

but to basically "spend a point to win," yeah that would feel really cheap, even if the points were earned.