I now actively look at the credits of RPG books and if I see John Wick or Gareth Skarka involved, then I definitely avoid the products.  Mainly, this has caused me to not buy the Action! system and completely swear off any purchasing from RPGnow after I had warmed a bit to PDF products.  But, for the most part, those two haven't ever done anything of consequence for RPGing, so swearing off products bearing their names doesn't have much of an impact.

My initial boycott of Palladiumbooks was due in no small part to the online behaviour of Maryann Siembieda.  If you need a definition of "stupid fucking bitch", just read one of her posts.  I have no doubt that she has singlehandedly and deliberately caused more bad online feelings toward Palladiumbooks than anything else.

All exhibit epic levels of assishness.  As far as I've been able to observe, all of them are facetious little narcissists of the highest order.  They all also seem extremely poor at their jobs.  Wick couldn't craft a decent story or game to save his life.  Maryann Siembieda's editing talents speak for themselves.  It's scary to realize that GMS and his abilities represent the only sign of talent among these three.

Sorensen is a little prick, but I don't think he comes anywhere close to these three.  However, John Wick's tirade during the Sorensen/Wick publicity stunt was especially ironic considering the Primeval bit.  "Cover your ass" indeed.

I've looked at the PRIMEVAL controversy a little more and can now safely say it's a load of bullshit. It's just baseless accusations thrown at Wick.

Not that I particularly love the guy, but I thought it was worth looking into. Wick did not run away with Unheilig's game.

Quote from: Consonant DudeI had never heard of the PRIMEVAL debacle before coming to RPGsite. Is this documented somewhere?

I believe it mostly took place behind the scenes among certain members at RPG.net.  The "Art of Game Design" forum there was particularly vibrant around 2000-2001, then unheilig decided to create Target Audience, a little designers' promotional co-op, which unfortunately sucked the life and creativity out of the AoGD forum by luring the creative bunch away onto a private mailing list.  Virtually nothing came of it but ego clashes and hurt feelings.

Now, all this was also right about the time that John Wick launched into his infamous "Ryan Dancy - the bar has been raised!" tirade against D&D 3.0.  Having bit off his own weenie and come face-to-face with his own insignificance, John had faded conveniently into the woodwork.  Eventually unheilig proudly announced to the Target Audience crowd that he had brought aboard not only Jared Sorensen, but John Wick as well.  Wick's inclusion was the last straw for me, and I warned everyone against throwing their lot in with a "falling star" like John.

After that, word only filtered out to me in bits and pieces from the one or two people with TA with whom I still corresponded.  Apparently Wick made grand promises to just about everyone about how he was going to connect everyone with the right resources and get everyone's games into print.  Anyone remember Wyrd?  It was a pretty nifty story-telling game of Saxon/Dane/Viking boasting by some guy who called himself "Moose".  Apparently Wick convinced him that he was going to take his game all the way to the top, and now it has faded completely off the map.  From what I gathered, Wick got busy with other things, left his promises unfulfilled and projects in mid-air, lots of feelings got hurt, and Target Audience imploded in his wake, taking pretty much all of the games with it.

For clarification, was it the mechanics from Primeval that Wick lifted, or was it Wyrd?  I rather thought it was the latter.

Anyway, after that debacle, after the "The Bar Has Been Raised!" affair, after the "wide-chested man", after his rewrite of RQ's Trollpak as Orkworld (which he then had the audacity to dedicate to Greg Stafford!), I pretty much came to the conclusion that I wanted to do nothing that would encourage John Wick's delusion that he had any further significance in the gaming community (and, yes, that includes NeoPets, for which I gathered he had been writing at one point -- possibly still is).

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAfter that, word only filtered out to me in bits and pieces from the one or two people with TA with whom I still corresponded.  Apparently Wick made grand promises to just about everyone about how he was going to connect everyone with the right resources and get everyone's games into print.  Anyone remember Wyrd?  It was a pretty nifty story-telling game of Saxon/Dane/Viking boasting by some guy who called himself "Moose".  Apparently Wick convinced him that he was going to take his game all the way to the top, and now it has faded completely off the map.  From what I gathered, Wick got busy with other things, left his promises unfulfilled and projects in mid-air, lots of feelings got hurt, and Target Audience imploded in his wake, taking pretty much all of the games with it.

For clarification, was it the mechanics from Primeval that Wick lifted, or was it Wyrd?  I rather thought it was the latter.

I have a couple of Wick's games and none of them look like Wyrd, which I was just looking at again yesterday. The baseless accusations of theft thrown at Wick seem to come from a misunderstanding with Unheilig about PRIMEVAL which grew into an urban legend, as those things tend to do.

Although both PRIMEVAL and Wyrd were interesting and promising games, it's good to remember that neither game has been published despite years of work and numerous offer for assistance at the Forge and other venues.

If PRIMEVAL and Wyrd haven't been finished and released yet, it's simply because Tom and Scott respectively did not make it happen. Period.

All too true, CD.

!i!

So far, designer courtesy hasn't had a significant effect on my purchases; in fact I have to admit that a few designers who strike me a bit as blowhards have managed to get a sale from me simply because I wanted to see if they were full of it.

Now, I'm beginning to suspect a bit of a correlation between online demeanor and product quality--essentially, if someone has a habit of loudly blaming critics, it may reflect an overdeveloped sense of one's abilities and quality of work.

I liked Wicks 'Play Dirty' series he did at Pyramid.  It and the Enemy Gods are the two things I've purchased from him.  Nothing else has really grabbed my attention.

He does have a tendency to rant and rave about the odd ball thing from time to time for no reason.  Understandably pissing off a few folks while doing so.  Plus I've heard of several stories of him agreeing to do something and then jumping ship on it, many of them being reputable sources.

It depends.  I know sometimes designers or writers have a bad day, or get into something too hard, and then the mud's slinging all over.  Even if a guy isn't generally showing an attitude I like, I'll probably still buy stuff from them, even if I'm not entirely fond of 'em.

For instance, there's Sharka - I'm not really fond of him all the time, but when he's finally able to release Mars, I'm looking forward to snapping it up.

Quote from: Consonant DudeThe baseless accusations of theft thrown at Wick seem to come from a misunderstanding with Unheilig about PRIMEVAL which grew into an urban legend, as those things tend to do.

Actually Unheilig leveled the accusation in very specific terms (the words used were unmistakably clear) on a now deceased forum (The Phantomzone). Perhaps he's since retracted that accusation, but the fact is that it was made and several sources (read "participants in the Target Audience" project) supported the accusation.

Specifically, Unheilig stated that Wick was hired to edit PRIMEVAL and then instead, pilfered the draft to compile Enemy Gods. As I said, several other participants in the project confirmed (notably "Dog Rough" and "Honesty").

Now. . . how much truth was there to the accusation? It's anybody's guess, but a little bird told me that legal action was threatened against the TA crowd and, thus, this was why the accusation was withdrawn. I think the "unofficial" stance amonst the folks in question is that Wick did rip them off, but nobody can prove it legally.

NOW, before anybody says this is a lot of conjecture or a rant posted on behalf of TA, I should be clear. . . I have no affiliation with TA. That said, I did see the original accusation and confirmations on the Phantomzone boards with my own eyes. And I was emailed [unsolicited] updates by a member of the PRIMEVAL design team when the tug of war with Wick was ensuing.

Quote from: Consonant DudeThe prank Wick and Sorensen pulled off was funny and harmless.

You're entitled to your opinion. Note that many folks don't share it, however.

QuoteIt was in tone with the game Sorensen was releasing

If you mean Lacuna, that game had already been released. In like, 2004

QuoteI had never heard of the PRIMEVAL debacle before coming to RPGsite. Is this documented somewhere?

See my above post. It was originally aired on The Phantomzone in early 2005. To my knowledge, all record of it was lost when the forum in question ceased to be.

Wick and Sorensen are cocksmocks, of that there can be no doubt. What that has to do with their games I have no idea.

Let's imagine that I see on the bookshelf in the gamestore the Game Of My Dreams. I know that if I buy it and run it, it'll lead to my Best Campaign Ever. Everyone will have fun, be happy, and remember it for years afterwards.

Am I going to deprive myself of that pleasure just because I don't like the writer personally? That's like the old saying, "cutting off your nose to spite your face." Why? So he won't get ten bucks? I'll miss out on hours and hours of entertainment and fun just to deprive some idiot of ten bucks?

On the other hand, if it's just an ordinary game, not that great or crap either way, then... well why the fuck am I buying an ordinary game anyway? Have I got money to throw away on ordinary stuff? Nope! I keep my money for good stuff! If I have some spare, I'll spend it on more cheetos or helping the homeless or something.

So, either you liked the book and hated the authour, or you are indifferent to/hated the book and also hated the authour. If you like the book, then by not buying it, you're punishing yourself more than the authour; if you are indifferent to or didn't like the book, you shouldn't be buying it anyway.

Quote from: jdrakehActually Unheilig leveled the accusation in very specific terms (the words used were unmistakably clear) on a now deceased forum (The Phantomzone). Perhaps he's since retracted that accusation, but the fact is that it was made and several sources (read "participants in the Target Audience" project) supported the accusation.

Specifically, Unheilig stated that Wick was hired to edit PRIMEVAL and then instead, pilfered the draft to compile Enemy Gods. As I said, several other participants in the project confirmed (notably "Dog Rough" and "Honesty").

Now. . . how much truth was there to the accusation? It's anybody's guess, but a little bird told me that legal action was threatened against the TA crowd and, thus, this was why the accusation was withdrawn. I think the "unofficial" stance amonst the folks in question is that Wick did rip them off, but nobody can prove it legally.

NOW, before anybody says this is a lot of conjecture or a rant posted on behalf of TA, I should be clear. . . I have no affiliation with TA. That said, I did see the original accusation and confirmations on the Phantomzone boards with my own eyes. And I was emailed [unsolicited] updates by a member of the PRIMEVAL design team when the tug of war with Wick was ensuing.

It also came out in RPGnet, when someone posted a thread to Open asking what had become of it, and after some prodding, unheilig spoke quite frankly about the shit Wick had pulled.

I'm having a hell of a time finding the thread with just Google though.

Quote from: J ArcaneIt also came out in RPGnet, when someone posted a thread to Open asking what had become of it, and after some prodding, unheilig spoke quite frankly about the shit Wick had pulled.

I think I must have missed the RPGnet thread.

Quote from: J ArcaneI'm having a hell of a time finding the thread with just Google though.

RPGnet has its own [crippled] search function again. That said, the thread may have been deleted if what I heard about legal action being threatened on behalf of Wick was true.

Quote from: jdrakehYou're entitled to your opinion. Note that many folks don't share it, however.

Yeah, the funny part, that's just what I think. However, it is pretty difficult to see the prank as anything but harmless.

Quote from: jdrakehIf you mean Lacuna, that game had already been released. In like, 2004

Well, yes and no. The original, rough game was put in a zine (Daedalus) at the time. 2006 was the launch of the officially published, refined Lacuna.  The whole promotion centers around that and not lagging sales of a zine Sorensen doesn't have any stakes in.