"Designer Professionalism, Courtesy: Does It Factor With You?"

No.

If Adolf Eichmann had written a good rpg, I would buy it and play it.

Indie authors and publishers (and I mean real indie, not Forge-indie) would be crazy not to interact on forums. It's one of their better and most affordable option for exposure and networking.

On the other hand, it's really useless for a WotC author as far as promotion.

Law of diminishing return, kind of.

Saying authors and publishers shouldn't be on forums is a sweeping assumption that doesn't take into account the ressources and options of each individual publishers. It's definitly beneficial (and one of the best avenue) for some of these guys.

Quote from: Consonant DudeIndie authors and publishers (and I mean real indie, not Forge-indie) would be crazy not to interact on forums. It's one of their better and most affordable option for exposure and networking.

On the other hand, it's really useless for a WotC author as far as promotion.

Law of diminishing return, kind of.

Saying authors and publishers shouldn't be on forums is a sweeping assumption that doesn't take into account the ressources and options of each individual publishers. It's definitly beneficial (and one of the best avenue) for some of these guys.

That's actually a good point -- if you treat your persona in the forum as a form of self promotion and monitor your discourse, there's a signficant upside and a very low cost (at least in money).

I see a lot of designers wading into flamewars and so-on... and I think that's bad business... but to your point, it doesn't need to be that way.

That said, I think it would take significant self control to maintain a professional image. Flyingmice, for one, does it -- I don't get the impression that he has to work at it though; I don't get the impression his on-line persona is in any way artificial. I suspect that most other people would need to exercise a level of restraint fundamentally at odds with the media.

Cheers,
-E.

yep

joe b.

Normally, no, it doesn't affect me at all except for two qualifiers:

1) Professionalism (or lack thereof) often shows in the product. Oftentimes, I don't need for the designer to be an asstard to turn me off on the product, because the product will suck.

2) There has been one, and only one, instance where personal experience with a game designer has colored my desire to try a game. The experience was before the aforementioned person started designing games. However, it's important to note that none of the games were really anything I'm interested in anyway, so the influence that experience had was minor. But had my experience with this person been more positive, I may have at least looked over the games even though they don't interest me. It's also important to note that it's been 15 years or so and I've gotten over any animosity I may have had a long, long time ago.

I won't buy from someone who is a raging asshole.  I'll gladly make allowances in my judgment for a designer who is blowing off steam in an off topic forum or something.

However, if you're a designer, and want to make a name for yourself as a businessman/gaming rock star/game designer/whatever as well as mix it up on the internet: make up a sock puppet!

If I were to run a company, I would have a different handle for acting in that company's interest, even if everyone knew it was still me.

As someone who has, from time to time, spoken with a product I was affiliated with hanging over my head, I'm of two minds that I think are two sides of the same coin.

I'm not interested in the products of a raging, mindless moronic cock-knocker.  If your personality begins and ends with being an assmonkey, enjoy it in peace, but not with my support.
On the other hand, I have even less support for the professional who is SO worried about his "public image" that he'll let that public kick him in the nuts time and time again and thank them with a pained grimace.  If you've got a point to make, fucking make it.  If you make it like an asshole, but make it, game on.  I don't care if you're a dick, as long as being a dick isn't the end all and be all of who you are.

Tim Willard and myself, for example.  Both raging, opinionated assholes who couldn't keep our thoughts to ourselves to save our lives.  But we love the games, and we like the gamers, and if we release something then god dammit it's the best it could be.

It's all about depth, man.

Yanno, thoughts of professionalism in game design also bring me to the games themselves.

I think it's incredibly important to refrain from preaching to your audience in a game.  I find it both insulting, and hideously unprofessional to crack open a book and find what amounts to a disguised manifesto from it's author.

This was one of the things that drove me away from White Wolf's games.  The constant wannabe-pagan neo-hippie shit being forced onto the audience just got to a point where I couldn't stand it.  I don't expect to crack open a roleplaying book and find an attack on reason.

I actually have a little intro piece, which I've floated around to a few lucky people, as a way of showing off my present project over the years, but which I suspect I will actually wind up dropping from the book, because it risks presenting exactly the same sort of preachy screed I hate to see in games.

Quote from: joewolzHowever, if you're a designer, and want to make a name for yourself as a businessman/gaming rock star/game designer/whatever as well as mix it up on the internet: make up a sock puppet!

If I were to run a company, I would have a different handle for acting in that company's interest, even if everyone knew it was still me.

I know someone who does this and I have no respect for him.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadI know someone who does this and I have no respect for him.

Is this a case by case way of thinking or does the whole idea throw you off?

If a game designer is a dick, it doesn't usually make me not want to buy their products - just as in any other creative field, I separate the creation from the creator. My dislike of White Wolf games is nothing to do with my personal dislike of Justin Achilli, and I really enjoy the Cerebus graphic novels even though Dave Sim is an insane conspiracy theorist with a severe case of misogyny.

On the flipside, if a game designer is nice to me or impresses me then I find myself more willing to buy their products. I've bought games from Greg Stafford on E-Bay a couple of times and he's always been very helpful, and I was sufficiently impressed I convinced my friendly local game shop to get Heroquest back in stock so I could buy it.

Quote from: joewolzIs this a case by case way of thinking or does the whole idea throw you off?

Hard to say. I guess it would depend on how it was handled; this particular case was sort of personal. To me, this particular individual came across as two-faced. One persona he kisses up and makes to everyone like he's a nice guy. The other ID, he used to attack people (me included).

I came about the knowledge of who he really was by a briefly held access to a moderator forum on another board. When I found out, I was pissed, because I knew that his sock puppet was probably not going after me because of the topic at hand, but because he was trolling me over a grudge I found out he still held over a little spat we had years ago on yet another forum.

I sort of feel like if he is going to attack people, he should have the guts to stand behind it with his own name.

Honestly, it depends. . .

If we're simply some venting on forums then, no, not really. For me. That said, I know people who won't buy certain games specifically because of said venting. For me, it's not a big deal. I think, for instance, that Luke Crayne is kind of a pecker -- but I really like the revised edition of Burning Wheel and am willing to look past our personal differences to embrace it.

If you get into true consumer abuse of the variety that Jared Sorensen, Delmer Esau, and John Wick are given to -- yes, absolutely. Pretending that your company is being bought out to boost lagging sales (or, alternately, pretending that you're dead to boost lagging sales*) is not cool. I don't buy (nor will) products from either of these publishers anymore.

And Wick. . . the guy has single-handedly brought the hobby industry some of the worst press since Pat Pulling. The PRIMEVAL thing is notable, of course, but tales of his departure from AEG are even more telling. When folks who are arguably equally as notorious for bad dispostions in the industry tell you that they'd rather cut off their own limbs than work with Wick, it says something. Gah.

*Delmer Esau had multiple people on multiple message boards post fake notices of his death on April Fool's Day 2006. Like Sorensen's "April Fool's Day joke" it was set up weeks in advance and directly intended to boost product sales (i.e., it was tied to a fire sale of sorts).

This might speak more to my status as freelancer than anything else, but I have sworn off far more companies because of how they treated freelancers/potential freelancers than someone mouthing off on a forum.

I mean, imo, most of the time when I see someone lose their temper on a forum, the person they are bitching at deserved it. I don't make enough money to be nice to jerks.

But, that's not the Stan Lee school of marketing, which I generally try to follow whenever possible.

Quote from: jdrakehIf you get into true consumer abuse of the variety that Jared Sorensen, Delmer Esau, and John Wick are given to -- yes, absolutely. Pretending that your company is being bought out to boost lagging sales (or, alternately, pretending that you're dead to boost lagging sales*) is not cool.

The prank Wick and Sorensen pulled off was funny and harmless. It's a great example of trying to blend fiction and reality. Heck, we've seen stuff like this since at least 1938 (Orson Wells' War of the Worlds radio adaptation). They just pushed it as far as they could. It was in tone with the game Sorensen was releasing and not to boost lagging sales. It's just good promotion and marketing.

Quote from: jdrakehAnd Wick. . . the guy has single-handedly brought the hobby industry some of the worst press since Pat Pulling. The PRIMEVAL thing is notable, of course, but tales of his departure from AEG are even more telling. Gah.

I had never heard of the PRIMEVAL debacle before coming to RPGsite. Is this documented somewhere?